DECONSTRUCTION - How far is too far?

[face2face]

How can you say this? (quoted above)
After you posted this. (quoted below)

Seems contradictory.

No, up until that point your questions were not very smart, that's all.
I'm just being honest, by saying it was a good question...I'm sure you will ask more silly questions - we all do from time to time...it's just you have been on a roll today.
I've notived you have stay well clear of all the Scriptural quotes and references...dont like them?
F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

I appreciate your answer to me, thank you! This helps me to understand better how you view righteousness, as if it were a thing by itself, to which all is measured, or, in your wording, should be measured.

As if there were a standard higher than God Himself, to which He must measure up to. I don't think at all that way. I think a good embodiment of God's "standard of righteousness" is in the passage, "for all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God."

He is transcendant such as nothing else can be, and having a firm sense of that transcendence, before which we MUST bow, is where we begin learning the meanings of things. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.

Here is the basis for much of what I have been saying here.
Notice verse 48. What's the standard? And the "therefore". (what's it there for?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[St. SteVen]

No, up until that point your questions were not very smart, that's all.
I'm just being honest, by saying it was a good question...I'm sure you will ask more silly questions - we all do from time to time...it's just you have been on a roll today.
I've notived you have stay well clear of all the Scriptural quotes and references...dont like them?
F2F

If you think my serious questions are silly, there is no point in continuing this discussion.
Let's talk about something else later. Thanks. I appreciate you.

 

[marks]

Here is the basis for much of what I have been saying here.
Notice verse 48. What's the standard? And the "therefore". (what's it there for?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Yes indeed, He is Who we are measured against. And you have to include the whole of the teaching, for the same One Who said this also warned against Him Who warned,

Matthew 10:28 KJV
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

God gives rain and sun (provision) to all, however, that does not mean He will not judge Humanity. And in fact Humanity already stands condemned. The only escape from that condemnation is in Christ.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

Here is the basis for much of what I have been saying here.
Notice verse 48. What's the standard? And the "therefore". (what's it there for?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Not sure of your point!

He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

He has shown the example down through the ages, not showing partiality and allowing empires/nations to rise and fall; blessing Kings and removing them when they overstep their position.
Are you implying imperfection in God?
You're not being very clear
F2F

 

[face2face]

If you think my serious questions are silly, there is no point in continuing this discussion.
Let's talk about something else later. Thanks. I appreciate you.

Consider me a little protective of my God's reputation!
He is without reproach and blameless.
That's a good starting point for discussion.
F2F

 

[quietthinker]

You're not being very clear
F2F

what you mean by this is, you don't understand?

 

[face2face]

what you mean by this is, you don't understand?

The word therefore is in bold - more information needed!
In like manner I made bold the red text, which speaks to the context of the Lord's teaching in relation to God's character when dealing with the evil and the just.
Are they questioning God's motives for how He deals with the wicked in the Earth?
Are they questioning whether God is perfect or not?
Are they agreeing or disagreeing with Christs teaching on loving ones neighbor.
more information required.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Yes indeed, He is Who we are measured against. And you have to include the whole of the teaching, for the same One Who said this also warned against Him Who warned,

Matthew 10:28 KJV
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

God gives rain and sun (provision) to all, however, that does not mean He will not judge Humanity. And in fact Humanity already stands condemned. The only escape from that condemnation is in Christ.

Much love!

This Marks is the Biblical teaching and conclusion, which appears blatantly obvious, so I'm curious what St. SteVen is wrestling with. It's all well and good to fire off a bunch of questions, but to nail your beliefs to the mast and say "this is what I think, and here's why" can only help the discussion along.

For instance they implied in #45 that all can be reconciled, I assume they include the wicked?

Maybe St SteVen is working through things or they think they already know their position and want to take others along for the ride.

Who knows?

Maybe St. SteVen does?

F2F

 

[face2face]

I'm not surprised. Most people missed the punchline.

1 Corinthians 2:16 NIV
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”[a]
But we have the mind of Christ.

This was an odd response.

My point was one not being able to look upon the heart as God does as per 1 Sam 16:7 (in other words read a persons thoughts and feelings)

Here it is again:

But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the LORD sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart.”

So you post 1 Corinthians 2:16 to suggest having the mind of Christ allows those the ability to look into and search peoples hearts? It's diffcult to interpret precisely what you mean by "I'm not surprised. Most people missed the punchline".

Have you taken the context of 1 Corinthians 2 and applied it to you being able to see as God sees (everything!)? Searching the thoughts and hearts of men and women? Can you read a persons thoughts?

Clearly you are stating you have the mind of Christ, which is in LARGE TEXT and bold - I'm curious what does this mind enable you to do St SteVen?

More information required.

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

Consider me a little protective of my God's reputation!
He is without reproach and blameless.

That saw cuts both ways.

I'm not the one describing him as a cosmic tyrant bent on anger and punishment.

 

[face2face]

That saw cuts both ways.

I'm not the one describing him as a cosmic tyrant bent on anger and punishment.

It's interesting that you perceived that from what I posted.
Do you beleive in universal salvation?
No judgement?
F2F

 

[CadyandZoe]

St. SteVen said:
This actually proves my point. Right on cue. Good work.
If I don't play by your rules, you walk away.
Don't forget to shake the dust off your sandals.

Where's the disrespect?
You already wrote that you don't want to waste any more time on me.
Proves my point.

Okay, I understand.

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you beleive in universal salvation?
No judgement?

Good questions, thanks.

Universal salvation WITH judgement/evaluation.
Corrective, not punitive. All = All (not some)

1 Corinthians 15:22 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[face2face]

@St. SteVen

We know God is love in its purest form - everything He does is motivated by it, however, looking at one aspect of His character and not the other will give you an incorrect view of Him.

Note then the goodness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. Romans 11:22

How do you understand Him in relation to the many judgements He has made against Israel? He has purge them of dross many times and will do so again - It's a refiners fire which he passess His people through to cleanse them and makes them more than they are! Of course, the motivating characteristic is love but at some point if they reject him he cuts them off. It could be that he opens the earth and swallows them whole; or He sends serpents among them to kill them - the list goes on an on.

How do you observe these things?

F2F

 

[face2face]

Good questions, thanks.

Universal salvation WITH judgement/evaluation.
Corrective, not punitive. All = All (not some)

1 Corinthians 15:22 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Okay,

So you have heard it said many times "all" is not the "all" you are implying.

Take verse 19 which provides you context

19 If only for this life WE have hope in Christ, WE are of all people most to be pitied.

Who are the WE being referenced?
Who is exempt?

F2F

 

[CadyandZoe]

Okay, I understand.

Please believe me when I say that my comment did not reject you or your process. In my apologetics days, I heard all of the atheists' objections and arguments against the Biblical truth and the existence of God. And I spent hundreds of hours giving a defense of Biblical knowledge. Today, I am just too tired and weary to go over them again. That is what I meant to say.

 

[marks]

Good questions, thanks.

Universal salvation WITH judgement/evaluation.
Corrective, not punitive. All = All (not some)

1 Corinthians 15:22 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Angels did not die in Adam, humanity did. Only those who were in Adam died. Just the same, all in Adam died.

All in Christ will be made alive. In just the same way, "for as . . . , so . . . ", that's what this is saying, "it's in the same way as that". All who are in Christ are made alive. Not those who are not in Christ, but all those who are in Christ. In just the same way as Adam, in Adam all died.

This verse plainly does not say what you assert. This is not a statement of universal salvation, it is a statement of absolute efficacy. All in Adam, and All in Christ, not just "all".

I believe I've posted this to you before but you did not reply to it. I'm hoping you will acknowledge this.

Much love!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Good questions, thanks.

Universal salvation WITH judgement/evaluation.
Corrective, not punitive. All = All (not some)

1 Corinthians 15:22 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Not all are "in Christ." Paul employs this phrase to identify individuals who follow Christ, obey his teaching, and are sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Only these will be made alive.

 

[St. SteVen]

We know God is love in its purest form - everything He does is motivated by it, however, looking at one aspect of His character and not the other will give you an incorrect view of Him.

I don't believe in a dual nature God.
Never know if he will come with a hug or a flame-thrower. Yikes!
No wonder people are afraid of him.

How do you understand Him in relation to the many judgements He has made against Israel? He has purge them of dross many times and will do so again - It's a refiners fire which he passess His people through to cleanse them and makes them more than they are!

Similar to universal salvation. Purge the dross, cleanse them.

How do you observe these things?

Not sure you can drag the OT view of God into the NT.
Could be a change in dispensation or a complete misunderstanding on the part of the ancients.

The front cover of our Bibles reads: HOLY BIBLE.
I want to slap a big label over that which reads:
Here's what we think happened.

Video of Peter Enns. Author of The Bible Tells Me so...