Degrees of sin

[dev553344]

this is nothing but a question from this foolish person

if christ indeed preaches in the spirit prison
then there is still a chance for the dead to be save even though they know nothing of what is happening in the living world nor can they feel a thing nor can they do a thing

so we can still save our dead beloved ones if we prayed?

Most people I find pray for their friends and family that have died. That God will accept them into his presence.

It's important to know that God preaches to those in man made prisons, they also know nothing that is going on in the world and require re-rehabilitation to re-enter the world with other people, since they're often violent or corrupt. And I can't say, but here are the two scriptures that talk about visitations to prison and perhaps other scriptures refer to this:

1 Peter 3:19

King James Version

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Matthew 25:36

King James Version

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Some would disagree. But the scriptures which say and the scriptures which hint about spirit prison throw doubt that there isn't one. It has been brought to my attention that Christ preaching to the spirits in prison might relate to Noah's time considering the scriptures just after 1 Peter 3:19.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

sorry but this seem to mean this

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

not really related to prison in the spiritual world

but as far as i can remember someone preaches that there are bad spirits in prison that can be found somewhere in heaven but i have forgotten the verse chapter and this preacher also claims that there is no point in praying for the dead people we can no longer change anything

 

[dev553344]

i'll just share this but there's a preacher who talk about a prison for bad souls somewhere in heaven and he showed evidence can be found in the bible but i forgot what verse and there's also that lazarus and the rich man

sorry but this seem to mean this

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

not really related to prison in the spiritual world

but as far as i can remember someone preaches that there are bad spirits in prison that can be found somewhere in heaven but i have forgotten the verse chapter and this preacher also claims that there is no point in praying for the dead people we can no longer change anything

Sorry for the confusion, no what I mentioned in Matthew 25:36 has nothing to do with spiritual prison, I was trying to relate the need to minister to people in both types of prisons, here on earth and perhaps also them in spirit prison. I'm not sure where a tribe that lives in the jungle and has never heard of Jesus before goes after death, I would think they might need to learn about Jesus to accept or deny him.

I've never heard about a prison in heaven. Let me know if you find the scripture on that. I did a quick search and didn't see anything

 

[Charlie24]

this is nothing but a question from this foolish person

if christ indeed preaches in the spirit prison
then there is still a chance for the dead to be save even though they know nothing of what is happening in the living world nor can they feel a thing nor can they do a thing

so we can still save our dead beloved ones if we prayed?

I don't like coming here as a brand new member and disagreeing with anyone! But what you have stated is incorrect!

Jesus did not go into hell (sheol) to preach to human spirits, but to Fallen Angels. As Peter said in 1Peter 3:20, these He preached to were sometime disobedient during the preparation of the ark.

These were the Angels of Satan referred to in Jude 6,

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

In Gen. 6:1-7 the "Sons of God" are the angels who threw in their lot with Satan and "left their own habitation" to breed with the women on earth. The result were giants, men of renown, possessed of demons.

These were the spirits that Jesus preached to! In Colossians 2:15 we see why he preached to them.

"And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

The angels Jesus preached to who have been reserved in chains in hell for what they have done, that is, trying to corrupt the bloodline of Christ to make the scripture a lie, are now being given a "in your face" message from Christ in victory over them in the Cross.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

I don't like coming here as a brand new member and disagreeing with anyone! But what you have stated is incorrect!

Jesus did not go into hell (sheol) to preach to human spirits, but to Fallen Angels. As Peter said in 1Peter 3:20, these He preached to were sometime disobedient during the preparation of the ark.

These were the Angels of Satan referred to in Jude 6,

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

In Gen. 6:1-7 the "Sons of God" are the angels who threw in their lot with Satan and "left their own habitation" to breed with the women on earth. The result were giants, men of renown, possessed of demons.

These were the spirits that Jesus preached to! In Colossians 2:15 we see why he preached to them.

"And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

The angels Jesus preached to who have been reserved in chains in hell for what they have done, that is, trying to corrupt the bloodline of Christ to make the scripture a lie, are now being given a "in your face" message from Christ in victory over them in the Cross.

that is just a question id did not state it is true

and that nephilim thingy as far as i can remember i already studied that on my own ofc(i am not a leader ok nor am i middle age nor old ok) and found out that the giants are not literal giants but fallen sons of God idk other verse related to it but i just keep rereading it over and over back and forth maybe that's what you called meditating on the words

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

@Charlie24
if you link other related verse to the fallen sons of God maybe my mind will change but from what i understand they are not angels or fallen angels but fallen sons of God if you read the next chapter and the previous one because i am aware that it is written that if i keep reading i will be able to understand it and so i did understand i thought at first it was indeed demons but later on i am wrong but then maybe if you include other related verse regarding giants

 

[Charlie24]

that is just a question id did not state it is true

and that nephilim thingy as far as i can remember i already studied that on my own ofc(i am not a leader ok nor am i middle age nor old ok) and found out that the giants are not literal giants but fallen sons of God idk other verse related to it but i just keep rereading it over and over back and forth maybe that's what you called meditating on the words

Yes, I seen that it was somewhat of a question, but just wanted to clarify from scripture the truth in that scenario, as I see it.

 

[dev553344]

@Charlie24
if you link other related verse to the fallen sons of God maybe my mind will change but from what i understand they are not angels or fallen angels but fallen sons of God if you read the next chapter and the previous one because i am aware that it is written that if i keep reading i will be able to understand it and so i did understand i thought at first it was indeed demons but later on i am wrong but then maybe if you include other related verse regarding giants

I believe those giants are nothing more than men that are considered renown and great, and perhaps like Goliath or something, great men.

 

[Charlie24]

@Charlie24
if you link other related verse to the fallen sons of God maybe my mind will change but from what i understand they are not angels or fallen angels but fallen sons of God if you read the next chapter and the previous one because i am aware that it is written that if i keep reading i will be able to understand it and so i did understand i thought at first it was indeed demons but later on i am wrong but then maybe if you include other related verse regarding giants

To me the result of the union as being giants is proof it was not of a human source, but of angels.

Another source is in Job, when the Sons of God came to present themselves before God and Satan came along with them, Job 1:6.

These were angles! Man is also called Sons of God, but the context will always determine who they are.

 

[K9Buck]

Yes, this is fact based on Scripture.

And if you're interpretation is wrong, what does that make you? A heretic?

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

I believe those giants are nothing more than men that are considered renown and great, and perhaps like Goliath or something, great men.

true that's what i also believe unless someone make me understand that it is really the fallen angels

 

[Charlie24]

true that's what i also believe unless someone make me understand that it is really the fallen angels

I can understand you believing that, as I once did! After reading behind many theologians I changed my mind.

They point out many things such as examples of angels in scripture becoming in the form of man, as in Sodom and Gomorrah.

They explain how it is possible for these angels to produce reproduction organs by the power of Satan.

Much of it I can't understand, it's above my intellect. But nothing wrong with believing either way!

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

i don't think that all "sons of God" have the same meaning just like this

9 Blessed G3107 are the peacemakers G1518: for G3754 they G846 shall be called G2564 the children G5207 of God G2316.

Spoiler: the children

Original: υἱός

Transliteration: uihos

Phonetic: hwee-os'

Thayer Definition:

a son
rarely used for the young of animals
generally used of the offspring of men
in a restricted sense, the male offspring (one born by a father and of a mother)
in a wider sense, a descendant, one of the posterity of any one
the children of Israel
sons of Abraham
used to describe one who depends on another or is his follower
a pupil
son of man
term describing man, carrying the connotation of weakness and mortality
son of man, symbolically denotes the fifth kingdom in Dan 7:13 and by this term its humanity is indicated in contrast with the barbarity and ferocity of the four preceding kingdoms (the Babylonian, the Median and the Persian, the Macedonian, and the Roman) typified by the four beasts. In the book of Enoch (2nd Century) it is used of Christ.
used by Christ himself, doubtless in order that he might intimate his Messiahship and also that he might designate himself as the head of the human family, the man, the one who both furnished the pattern of the perfect man and acted on behalf of all mankind. Christ seems to have preferred this to the other Messianic titles, because by its lowliness it was least suited to foster the expectation of an earthly Messiah in royal splendour.
son of God
used to describe Adam (Luk 3:38)
used to describe those who are born again (Luk 20:36) and of angels and of Jesus Christ
of those whom God esteems as sons, whom he loves, protects and benefits above others
in the OT used of the Jews
in the NT of Christians
those whose character God, as a loving father, shapes by chastisements (Heb 12:5-8)
those who revere God as their father, the pious worshippers of God, those who in character and life resemble God, those who are governed by the Spirit of God, repose the same calm and joyful trust in God which children do in their parents (Rom 8:14, Gal 3:26 (refs2) ), and hereafter in the blessedness and glory of the life eternal will openly wear this dignity of the sons of God. Term used preeminently of Jesus Christ, as enjoying the supreme love of God, united to him in affectionate intimacy, privy to his saving councils, obedient to the Father's will in all his acts
Origin: apparently a primary word

TDNT entry: 13:34,1

Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine

Strong's Definition: Apparently a primary word; a " son" (sometimes of animals), used very widely of immediate, remote or figurative kinship: - child, foal, son.

and i know you more than me that christ is also called the son of God

Spoiler: there were giants

H5303

Original: נפל נפיל

Transliteration: nephı̂yl nephil

Phonetic: nef-eel'

BDB Definition:

giants, the Nephilim
Origin: from H5307

TWOT entry: 1393a

Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine

Strong's Definition: From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: - giant.

Spoiler: nephilim

Original: נפל

Transliteration: nâphal

Phonetic: naw-fal'

BDB Definition:

to fall, lie, be cast down, fail
(Qal)
to fall
to fall (of violent death)
to fall prostrate, prostrate oneself before
to fall upon, attack, desert, fall away to, go away to, fall into the hand of
to fall short, fail, fall out, turn out, result
to settle, waste away, be offered, be inferior to
to lie, lie prostrate
(Hiphil)
to cause to fall, fell, throw down, knock out, lay prostrate
to overthrow
to make the lot fall, assign by lot, apportion by lot
to let drop, cause to fail (figuratively)
to cause to fall
(Hithpael)
to throw or prostrate oneself, throw oneself upon
to lie prostrate, prostrate oneself
(Pilel) to fall
Origin: a primitive root

TWOT entry: 1392

Part(s) of speech: Verb

Strong's Definition: A primitive root; to fall, in a great variety of applications (intransitively or causatively, literally or figuratively): - be accepted, cast (down, self, [lots], out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell (-ing), fugitive, have [inheritance], inferior, be judged [by mistake for H6419], lay (along), (cause to) lie down, light (down), be (X hast) lost, lying, overthrow, overwhelm, perish, present (-ed, -ing), (make to) rot, slay, smite out, X surely, throw down.

Spoiler: when the sons

H1121

Original: בּן

Transliteration: bên

Phonetic: bane

BDB Definition:

son, grandson, child, member of a group
son, male child
grandson
children (plural - male and female)
youth, young men (plural)
young (of animals)
sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for unrighteous men] or sons of God [for angels])
people (of a nation) (plural)
of lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows (figuratively)
a member of a guild, order, class
Origin: from H1129

TWOT entry: 254

Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine

Strong's Definition: From H1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., (like H1, H251, etc.): - + afflicted, age, [Ahoh-] [Ammon-] [Hachmon-] [Lev-]ite, [anoint-]ed one, appointed to, (+) arrow, [Assyr-] [Babylon-] [Egypt-] [Grec-]ian, one born, bough, branch, breed, + (young) bullock, + (young) calf, X came up in, child, colt, X common, X corn, daughter, X of first, + firstborn, foal, + very fruitful, + postage, X in, + kid, + lamb, (+) man, meet, + mighty, + nephew, old, (+) people, + rebel, + robber, X servant born, X soldier, son, + spark, + steward, + stranger, X surely, them of, + tumultuous one, + valiant[-est], whelp, worthy, young (one), youth.

Spoiler: of God

Original: אלהים

Transliteration: 'ĕlôhı̂ym

Phonetic: el-o-heem'

BDB Definition:

(plural)
rulers, judges
divine ones
angels
gods
(plural intensive - singular meaning)
god, goddess
godlike one
works or special possessions of God
the (true) God
God
Origin: plural of H433

TWOT entry: 93c

Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine

Strong's Definition: Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God ; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates ; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

6 Now there was a day H3117 when the sons H1121 of God H430 came H935 to present H3320 themselves before the LORD H3068, and Satan H7854 came H935 also among H8432 them.

1 Again there was a day H3117 when the sons H1121 of God H430 came H935 to present H3320 themselves before the LORD H3068, and Satan H7854 came H935 also among H8432 them to present H3320 himself before the LORD H3068.

2 And the LORD H3068 said H559 unto Satan H7854, From whence H335 comest H935 thou? And Satan H7854 answered H6030 the LORD H3068, and said H559, From going to and fro H7751 in the earth H776, and from walking up and down H1980 in it.

EXEEDED 10,000 CHARACTERS...

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. note

4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.

5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. note

7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

8 And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.

9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.

10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

i still believe that those are not spirits but alive human

angels are called angels

15 And when H3644 the morning H7837 arose H5927, then the angels H4397 hastened H213 Lot H3876, saying H559, Arise H6965, take H3947 thy wife H802, and thy two H8147 daughters H1323, which are here H4672; lest thou be consumed H5595 in the iniquity H5771 of the city H5892.

not sons of God

then the sons of God hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take your wife

because they are not the sons of God but the servant of God and demons are fallen servants of God

giants means nephilim=fallen
you should know this more than me because i considered myself a child who know nothing at all a foolish child before God


38 For G1063 I am persuaded G3982, that G3754 neither G3777 death G2288, nor G3777 life G2222, nor G3777 angels G32, nor G3777 principalities G746, nor G3777 powers G1411, nor G3777 things present G1764, nor G3777 things to come G3195,

39 Nor G3777 height G5313, nor G3777 depth G899, nor G3777 any G5100 other G2087 creature G2937, shall be able G1410 to separate G5563 us G2248 from G575 the love G26 of God G2316, which is in G1722 Christ G5547 Jesus G2424 our G2257 Lord G2962.

5 He that overcometh G3528, the same G3778 shall be clothed G4016 in G1722 white G3022 raiment G2440; and G2532 I will G1813 not G3364 blot out G1813 his G846 name G3686 out of G1537 the book G976 of life G2222, but G2532 I will confess G1843 his G846 name G3686 before G1799 my G3450 Father G3962, and G2532 before G1799 his G846 angels G32.

i can't believe that those demons took human form and get laid and live on earth along side with their beautiful wife and childrens.. wait what? and the offspring became giants that's why there are gigantic skeletons found all over the world

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

I can understand you believing that, as I once did! After reading behind many theologians I changed my mind.

They point out many things such as examples of angels in scripture becoming in the form of man, as in Sodom and Gomorrah.

They explain how it is possible for these angels to produce reproduction organs by the power of Satan.

Much of it I can't understand, it's above my intellect. But nothing wrong with believing either way!

a wife of my cousin talked to a shapeshifter that wife thought that she was talking to her husband but that husband did not even respond nor did it face the wife while she was blabbering about this and that that person just stay there grunting a different christian belief cclaimed it is some kind of elements but i'm sure those are demons

that wife is also beautiful tho xD

 

[Charlie24]

i still believe that those are not spirits but alive human

angels are called angels

15 And when H3644 the morning H7837 arose H5927, then the angels H4397 hastened H213 Lot H3876, saying H559, Arise H6965, take H3947 thy wife H802, and thy two H8147 daughters H1323, which are here H4672; lest thou be consumed H5595 in the iniquity H5771 of the city H5892.

not sons of God

then the sons of God hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take your wife

because they are not the sons of God but the servant of God and demons are fallen servants of God

giants means nephilim=fallen
you should know this more than me because i considered myself a child who know nothing at all a foolish child before God


38 For G1063 I am persuaded G3982, that G3754 neither G3777 death G2288, nor G3777 life G2222, nor G3777 angels G32, nor G3777 principalities G746, nor G3777 powers G1411, nor G3777 things present G1764, nor G3777 things to come G3195,

39 Nor G3777 height G5313, nor G3777 depth G899, nor G3777 any G5100 other G2087 creature G2937, shall be able G1410 to separate G5563 us G2248 from G575 the love G26 of God G2316, which is in G1722 Christ G5547 Jesus G2424 our G2257 Lord G2962.

5 He that overcometh G3528, the same G3778 shall be clothed G4016 in G1722 white G3022 raiment G2440; and G2532 I will G1813 not G3364 blot out G1813 his G846 name G3686 out of G1537 the book G976 of life G2222, but G2532 I will confess G1843 his G846 name G3686 before G1799 my G3450 Father G3962, and G2532 before G1799 his G846 angels G32.

i can't believe that those demons took human form and get laid and live on earth along side with their beautiful wife and childrens.. wait what? and the offspring became giants that's why there are gigantic skeletons found all over the world

Not trying to convince you because it really doesn't matter what you believe on this. It has no effect on your relationship with Christ. I can give you more detail from the theologians as to why I believe they were angels.

They point out that Satan believes he can take control of this world if he can prove just one prophesy of scripture to be false.

Of course he can't because God will not allow it, but this is his plan on everything he does, to prove the scripture wrong.

What we are discussing is one of those attempts. It was to corrupt the lineage of Christ to make the prophesy of of His birth to the lineage of David a lie.

When the angels did this, of course by the aid of Satan's power, God made an example of them by chaining them and reserving them forever in the pits of hell, the abyss I think. They have broken the rules of God He created from the foundation of the world.

In return to what they had done by corrupting man, only Noah's family was not effected, He had to destroy the whole world and chose water, the flood to do it. If you notice in Gen. 6, God spoke of destroying man from the face of the earth immediately after the results of these corrupted men are mentioned.

It is some very interesting reading and study. This was many years ago when I studied this and some may say, no way, and that's ok too!

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Many Christians believe that the vast majority of humanity will be dumped into an eternal fire. That sounds like something the Nazis did at Auschwitz. Needless to say, that's not my view. My gut-feeling is that few, if ANY, are permanently damned/condemned/destroyed.

Bible says the way is narrow one and that there be few who find it.
And that wide is the part that leads to ?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Where's the Bible teach about purgatory? My Bible says I can know I have eternal life. Not that I might make it if I get through purgatory.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

Many places in the Bible one can see such is in relation to what is called Purgatory nowadays, it's the same with the Trinity, such jumps out at you when you come across such.
Any or many word in English could be seen as bastardising the original text somewhat as well, English use of words can be shockingly bad as well in relating to the original concept given as to Hebrew, Greek or Latin, open to problems in picking up on the original concept, once one has a handle on such then one can see the direction of the English tried best to pick up on such things.

Oh no it does not have the word Purgatory or Trinity etc, so lets reject such .

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

OK here's the oxymoron, if people that suffer eternal fire in hell or the lake of fire suffer eternally, then they aren't dying, the term die is reserved for a body that turns back into dust from being raised from dust. Does not a person that lives in the lake of fire have some sort of eternal life to exist in there forever and be tormented?

Anyways that is what confuses me the most, cheers.

I would think that the Soul is in torment in Hellfire because they missed the chance and are condemned for being a cursed, bathing in Satan's works peddling delusions to undermine others for ones own ego driven insanity madness. they blew it ! the Soul will be ashamed of their workings forever, now that's comes across as real torment to me.
The point of the millstone comes to mind, It would of been better for such to of never been born and the point made of casting of a Millstone as such is the stark reality of fact, in the story. that is how one would feel who is in hell, that's described as fire and brimstone.

 

[Renniks]

Many places in the Bible one can see such is in relation to what is called Purgatory nowadays, it's the same with the Trinity, such jumps out at you when you come across such.
Any or many word in English could be seen as bastardising the original text somewhat as well, English use of words can be shockingly bad as well in relating to the original concept given as to Hebrew, Greek or Latin, open to problems in picking up on the original concept, once one has a handle on such then one can see the direction of the English tried best to pick up on such things.

Oh no it does not have the word Purgatory or Trinity etc, so lets reject such .

So..you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask about the word purgatory, I asked where teaching about it is found in Scripture.