Degrees of sin

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Reggie Belafonte

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So..you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask about the word purgatory, I asked where teaching about it is found in Scripture.
Seek and you shall find.
Look one can read the Bible and miss many things, I can tell you were to look but it's so easy for people to just reject such. now reading the bible one can of read something many a time, but one day you can be so spun out that you never seen something that you missed within the words, that you are amazed that such has jumped out at you now, I have come across such many a time.
I came across the Trinity once and I nearly fell over backwards and then again and again, it just jumped out at me that that was what they were talking about, no mention of the word Trinity in the Bible but we have a word for such now to explain, now the carnal will not pick up on such because they are blind to such things. the Bible is not written for carnal people, one can read the Bible front to back and pick up nothing from it at all, I know many who boast of such. oh they know of it and some may know it well but they do not have the Holy Spirit, even some Priest are only carnal.
Purgatory is explained within the Bible clearly for me, just as the Trinity is.
If one does not want to see something in the Bible is like leading a horse to water but you can't make it drink if it does not want to.
 

Renniks

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Seek and you shall find.
Look one can read the Bible and miss many things, I can tell you were to look but it's so easy for people to just reject such. now reading the bible one can of read something many a time, but one day you can be so spun out that you never seen something that you missed within the words, that you are amazed that such has jumped out at you now, I have come across such many a time.
I came across the Trinity once and I nearly fell over backwards and then again and again, it just jumped out at me that that was what they were talking about, no mention of the word Trinity in the Bible but we have a word for such now to explain, now the carnal will not pick up on such because they are blind to such things. the Bible is not written for carnal people, one can read the Bible front to back and pick up nothing from it at all, I know many who boast of such. oh they know of it and some may know it well but they do not have the Holy Spirit, even some Priest are only carnal.
Purgatory is explained within the Bible clearly for me, just as the Trinity is.
If one does not want to see something in the Bible is like leading a horse to water but you can't make it drink if it does not want to.
So...that wasn't helpful. I have read the whole Bible more than once, and yes I see the Trinity and the other core doctrines. I've never found purgatory in there. I even asked my Catholic friend and she tried to say Luther removed some verse about praying for the dead? Is that what the Catholic church tells their people?
 

ThePuffyBlob

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Not trying to convince you because it really doesn't matter what you believe on this. It has no effect on your relationship with Christ. I c
true and we're talking about off topic started by you xP
In return to what they had done by corrupting man, only Noah's family was not effected, He had to destroy the whole world and chose water, the flood to do it. If you notice in Gen. 6, God spoke of destroying man from the face of the earth immediately after the results of these corrupted men are mentioned.
and i believe those supposedly sons of God who should have praise God and serve him have fallen from the grace of God turn to wicked things and got corrupted even further except for noah a son of God and his family and here america a land of babylon would sink from the flood if it weren't for the rainbow promise of God that he would never again do that xP

anyway enough of this topic because it is off-topic
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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So...that wasn't helpful. I have read the whole Bible more than once, and yes I see the Trinity and the other core doctrines. I've never found purgatory in there. I even asked my Catholic friend and she tried to say Luther removed some verse about praying for the dead? Is that what the Catholic church tells their people?
Praying for the dead ? Jesus says not to.
I have no idea what the RC priest may say or any other denominations.
All that I know is that their are Godless people who have become priest peddling whatever especially nowadays.
Some priest are under pressure from others above them in there Church system and others are under powers of people within their own community Church, I think it all comes down to fear of money in many ways, not to mention most people are highly offended if a priest were to preach Jesus Christ first and foremost in the Church, most of who still go to Church would walk out for sure.

As for myself I have never prayed for anyone who was dead and I have no intention to do so, I will reflect on such a ones life if called upon, what I think of them my self and I may have faith that they are worthy of Heaven, as I feel good about such a one and not sorry for them, but I do feel sorry for others and it does grieve me much they who I know who openly rejected Jesus Christ.

But I do not go the funerals anymore or graves as to why I once would do, I was asked to go to a grave site and talk to such a one and I said no ! I am not into that at all. why not was the question, well I am not into worldly works or Aboriginal spiritual dribble Idolising such people and it shits me off to put up with such pagan hogwash, such people as so a dead man is ? (can't think of the correct word now) and that is typical of any atheist nub skull. rubbish of don't talk openly regardless of the dead is just a taboo pagan tradition as well.

I have called upon the Saints however, they are not dead people but Souls who are alive. to give guidance clarification somewhat etc.

People who claim or boast that they are going to Heaven ! Rom 10:6 saying Who shall ascend into Heaven ? that is to bring Christ down from above. 7 or, who shall descend down into the deep ? that is to bring Christ up from the dead.

Purgatory
Maccabees 12:43-46
Peter 3:19 and 4:6
 

Reggie Belafonte

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2 Maccabees 12:43-46 it is about pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from Sins. this regards the OT of the Jews.
 

Renniks

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2 Maccabees 12:43-46 it is about pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from Sins. this regards the OT of the Jews.
Contrary to Roman Catholic dogma, the Apocrypha should not be considered authentic Scripture, so finding the doctrine of purgatory there would not grant it biblical authority.

However, the passage in 2 Maccabees doesn’t say anything about purgatory, nor does it in any way imply the Roman Catholic dogma.

According to Catholics; Purgatory is only for those who have died in God’s grace. If someone dies while guilty of a mortal sin for which they have made no absolution, they die outside of God’s grace and under His wrath. They will not receive purification in purgatory. They will be justly punished in hell. Roman Catholic teaching regards willful idolatry committed in full knowledge of God’s moral law to be a mortal sin. The passage is clear that these were not ignorant pagans. They were Jews who knew that what they were doing was forbidden by God’s law. These men died in unrepentant, willful idolatry and active devotion to false gods. Therefore, on Roman Catholic teaching, they died outside of God’s grace. That they were under God’s wrath is further exemplified by the repeated emphasis on the death of these men as a direct judgment from God on them for their sin.

"He also took up a collection, man by man, to the amount of two thousand drachmas of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection. For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, so that they might be delivered from their sin.”

Judas Maccabeus collects money from all the men in his army. They send the money to Jerusalem to buy the appropriate sacrificial animals to make offerings for the atonement of the sin of these fallen soldiers. Why? According to the text, it is because of the expectation of a future resurrection. It is not because these men were presently confined to the sufferings of purgatory and hoping for release. Not only is there no indication that any such consideration ever entered the mind of either Judas or the author of the book, but there is a clear statement of exactly what was in mind. Judas wanted these men to share in the reward of the righteous on the day of resurrection. He was not considering the present reality of their death and any suffering their souls might currently be enduring. His focus was the future hope of their physical life.

It reports the act of a general who loved his men and believed in the resurrection of the dead, and so he offered atoning sacrifices at the temple in hopes that God might accept them, forgive these men, and grant them eternal life and reward instead of a future of suffering. His hope was not to shorten their stay in some form of purgatory but rather to mediate their release from sin, death, and hell. If this points to any New Testament teaching at all, it points forward to the true and ultimate atoning sacrifice of Jesus Himself, who offered His own life at Jerusalem for the sins of many, even many who had died before He came. This text preserves a Jewish tradition that God might accept a sacrifice from the righteous on behalf of the wicked rebel who can make no offering of his own. In as much as there is any truth to that hope, it is fulfilled in Christ.

Thus, what we find in this old Jewish tradition is not a belief in purgatory. What we find instead is a belief in the possibility of vicarious, substitutionary atonement. Even the apocryphal 2 Maccabees doesn’t teach that the dead can be purged of sin through their own purgatorial suffering. It does express a hope that maybe a righteous person can atone on the helpless sinner’s behalf. That was only fulfilled by Christ.
 

Renniks

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Peter 3:19 and 4:6
One part of one verse that is open to several interpretations doe not a doctrine make.

This could suggest that Jesus, in spiritual form, was alive and proclaiming to the "spirits in prison" before returning to physical life. This may mean anything from those who died before Christ's ministry, to fallen angels, and a host of other options.
It doesn't suggest purgatory. More likely Jesus gave the gospel to those in Hades. A one time happening, not a current reality.