Denominations that teach only they will be saved

[MatthewG]

Like i get be upset at religous leaders who dont do justice to their congergation.

Jesus was too. Thats fine, but indivually?

 

[face2face]

That could be Catholic, Jehovah Witness, LDS, is it possible for people in these denomination to come to the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ, and have a change of life to come to faith and to love God and love others?

Thanks for the chuckle Matt.
Imagine Christ returned and the JW's were right? How would you respond? Would you have the humility to be taught all over? Now I'm not saying they are, just presenting the possiblity.
What I can say is they have some things right more than many Christians so that should be cause for concern.
F2F

 

[MatthewG]

Thanks for the chuckle Matt.
Imagine Christ returned and the JW's were right? How would you respond? Would you have the humility to be taught all over? Now I'm not saying they are, just presenting the possiblity.
What I can say is they have some things right more than many Christians so that should be cause for concern.
F2F

Well for me all people in the congregations mentioned believe in the death, burial, and resurrection.

And also my stand point people enter into the kingdom to day by faith and looking on the son, and having results such as loving God and loving others as they go along their life.


I dont expect Jesus to return again as he did in 70Ad and those who were encouraged to wait, watch and seem him, which was the bride then doesnt exempt more fruits afterwards.

I dont really have a denomination, there is www.cult.love but that is just a school house of information to consider.

 

[face2face]

Well for me all people in the congregations mentioned believe in the death, burial, and resurrection.

And also my stand point people enter into the kingdom to day by faith and looking on the son, and having results such as loving God and loving others as they go along their life.


I dont expect Jesus to return again as he did in 70Ad and those who were encouraged to wait, watch and seem him, which was the bride then doesnt exempt more fruits afterwards.

I dont really have a denomination, there is www.cult.love but that is just a school house of information to consider.

Out of interest Matt have learned things here? I've noticed you take part in a lot of threads and create your own from time to time.

 

[MatthewG]

@face2face i would never want to learn ynder anyone who doesnt encourage to seek out, test all things and even not to believe them and what they may teach…

I dont like the idea of just following a group along the way and a teacher not encouraging or admiting they may be wrong, on what they might teach ….

Thats is just blind leading the blind in my opinion…

 

[MatthewG]

Out of interest Matt have learned things here? I've noticed you take part in a lot of threads and create your own from time to time.

Not a whole lot. Just that people can be hateful even in the christian community and biased, predujice, and highly judgemental.

 

[face2face]

@face2face i would never want to learn ynder anyone who doesnt encourage to seek out, test all things and even not to believe them and what they may teach…

I dont like the idea of just following a group along the way and a teacher not encouraging or admiting they may be wrong, on what they might teach ….

Thats is just blind leading the blind in my opinion…

I think you missed the point of my question. In your time here have you learned anything from anyone in the forum? Today, I was impressed with a members point and its one I will not forget...they said simply "how can you approach a God who changes?"

The answer is you can't.

I've come to appreciate many members here have a lot of wisdom to share.

Curious if you have seen that.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Not a whole lot. Just that people can be hateful even in the christian community and biased, predujice, and highly judgemental.

I'm guilty of this for sure...I think it comes with studying the Bible for over 30 years you become entrenched in your views. Having said that I would not want to debate or argue with the Apostle Paul…you would come off second best that’s for sure! If you have truth you want to share it.

F2F

 

[RLT63]

@RLT63,

In general any denomination on earth, is it possible for God to work on individuals in those denominations which they experience a change of life, by the spirit in which they allow God to work on their hearts and mind. They could end up leaving, or perhaps even share the truth of matters with others with-in.

That could be Catholic, Jehovah Witness, LDS, is it possible for people in these denomination to come to the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ, and have a change of life to come to faith and to love God and love others?

Yes

 

[Taken]

@St. SteVen

God already KNOWS who “is or shall” be saved.
I would say Gods “works” of Salvation is Already “accomplished”….It is the individual man on his journey through his natural life, establishing his beliefs, making his commitments, WHO is the one not Yet knowing, UNTIL he chooses to make his vow of belief, his word of commitment.

(That maybe be what you mean ALL are already saved ??)

Additionally … Before Judgement ALL SHALL BELIEVE …
** Those who Believed and Committed BEFORE their physical Bodily Death, SHALL be Saved.
** Those who are bodily raised up IN their OLD body (not a glorified made a new body) on Judgement Day, shall stand before the Judge, See Him, Believe and Bow down to Him (fulfilling Scripture), But shall not BE Saved…
Body, (already without it’s life ie (Blood), shall be destroyed.
Soul, (with Gods breath of life; that life returns to God) and the lifeless soul destroyed.
Natural Spirit of man (ie his truth in his heart), already dead with his body, and having never received a New SPIRIT from God (via and called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, or ie Born Again spirit.)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[St. SteVen]

** Those who Believed and Committed BEFORE their physical Bodily Death, SHALL be Saved.

That's the standard dogma, but does it hold up?
Where was Christ for three days before his resurrection?

 

[RLT63]

That's the standard dogma, but does it hold up?
Where was Christ for three days before his resurrection?

Preaching to the spirits in prison 1Peter 3:19

 

[face2face]

Preaching to the spirits in prison 1Peter 3:19

No, Jesus was 100% dead. There is nothing a person can do when they are dead. Tough verse that to work out, but with the right questions and an open mind, you can get there.

 

[face2face]

@St. SteVen
God already KNOWS who “is or shall” be saved.
Taken

As a side, I have often wondered if I was "all knowing" from beginning to end; would I want to know "Everything"? Are there things God leaves as unknowing, that He might delight when the thing is known.

I'm not dogmatic on this this Taken, just something I've thought about over the years. Just because He can doesn't mean He does!

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

Preaching to the spirits in prison 1Peter 3:19

Exactly!
Why preach to spirits that cannot act on the message?
And then what happened? He "led captivity captive", meaning, he brought them out.

So, the doctrine of "one chance" comes into question.
And a decision by anyone in the realm of the dead who had never heard
is NOT a "second chance" but a first hearing. In fact, nothing is left to chance. IMHO

 

[Taken]

That's the standard dogma, but does it hold up?

Let me clarify.
Those who while alive in their natural flesh become CONVERTED, (via Confessing their Belief) “ARE” Saved.
Those who while alive in their natural flesh who “physically DIE Heartfully BELIEVING “SHALL BE Saved”.

Where was Christ for three days before his resurrection?

Jesus’ Body was 3 days in the tomb.
Jesus Bodily departed soul, and Christ (the Power/Spirit of God) was 3 days IN Hell, preaching to the spirits.

 

[Taken]

Exactly!
Why preach to spirits that cannot act on the message?

Seems it would depend on WHO one thinks the “spirits in prison are”….and WHAT He was “preaching”.

And then what happened? He "led captivity captive", meaning, he brought them out.

So, the doctrine of "one chance" comes into question.
And a decision by anyone in the realm of the dead who had never heard
is NOT a "second chance" but a first hearing. In fact, nothing is left to chance. IMHO

Many in “prison” bodily died IN Belief”, waiting to be claimed.

 

[Taken]

Seems it would depend on WHO one thinks the “spirits in prison are”….and WHAT He was “preaching”.




Many in “prison” bodily died IN Belief”, waiting to be claimed.

@St. SteVen

Eph 3: (see Eph chapter 1, & 2 for THE CAUSE)
[1] For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles…

A “prisoner” is one being “captured and held” by another.

Our common “natural” thought and understanding of a “prisoner” IS: one being “captured and held” … “against his will…BY an Enemy.

“spiritually” thinking and understanding IS:
One being “captured and held” … “according to his (the mans’) will…BY Christ the Lord Jesus.

Every individual “captured and held” … BY Christ (the Power and Spirit of God) the Lord (High Priest of God) Jesus (the Word of God)…by, through, of the mans willingness to CONVERT and Become “IN” Christ…
IS: willingly being “captured and held” by Christ the Lord Jesus…
THUS IS: a prisoner of Christ the Lord Jesus.

Pryor to Christ the Lord Jesus, being SENT from Heaven to Earth…. ALL men WHO “bodily died Believing IN Gods Messiah and IN Gods Word”, BECAME “soul saved”.
(And remember THOSE men who died believing in Gods Messiah and Gods Word…DID NOT YET KNOW….His Name was JESUS.)

BUT…However their “saved Living souls that departed their physically Dead bodies”….COULD NOT GO UP TO HEAVEN…
YET.

Why NOT? ( Col 1:17)
Because IN ALL THINGS…BEFORE ALL Men:
The Christ Messiah of God ( IS FIRST )…. Jesus… The Word of God ( IS FIRST )…

When Jesus (the Word and Christ Messiah’s BODY was Crucified)… His living soul Departed His Dead Body, BUT DID NOT immediately RISE UP to Heaven.

His SOUL Went to Hell to Preach to the “saved souls”, being temporarily held in … a SIDE OF HELL of Comfort and Peace, (called Abraham’s Bosom)…THOSE saved souls, WAITING for Christ Jesus’ SOUL to RISE FIRST up to Heaven, and THEIR Living Departed Saved souls, thereafter Rise UP to Heaven, and WAIT THERE in peace and comfort, FOR the Day their Bodies to be RISEN UP IN Glory, and their Living souls IMPARTED BACK INTO THEIR glorified body.

Division of Hell…is revealed in Scripture…
(The Great Gulf Division)
* Departed living souls in Torments, separated FROM God and Gods Word.
* Departed living souls in Comfort, in Abraham’s Bosom, in Comfort and Peace and Gods Word WITH them.

A man (Bodily Alive with his living soul IN him,) who has become CONVERTED IN Christ….has become CAPTURED by the Power of Christ…and that man IS a Prisoner OF Christ Jesus.

A man (Bodily Dead whose living soul has Departed his Dead body,) WHO became made CONVERTED IN Christ…IS a Prisoner OF Christ Jesus.
THAT Prisoner (departed saved Living soul) is being HELD IN Heaven, WAITING for Christ Jesus TO BE FIRST, to “return to Earth”…
WHICH “ONCE” Christ Jesus “returns” TO EARTH, so ALSO can “those Prisoners IN Heaven ie.(saved souls, in their new risen glorified bodies) BE returned to Earth.

Converted men, are willing Prisoners OF:
Christ the Lord Jesus.

Their souls, spirits (called saints) are SENT, GO, are HELD in particular (peaceful) PLACES, until Christ the Lord Jesus GOES FIRST BEFORE THEM.

A man BEING A Prisoner OF Christ the Lord Jesus IS: a GOOD and PERMANENT outcome FOR that individual man.
Where Christ the Lord Jesus GOES, IS, so also shall that man GO, Be.

God Bless you and Glory to God,
Taken

 

[St. SteVen]

His SOUL Went to Hell to Preach to the “saved souls”...

Good post. But this is where we part company doctrinally. (which is fine)
Your position is common among many Christians, but doesn't resonate with me.
Why preach to saved souls in the realm of the dead?

1 Peter 3:19-20 NIV
After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah...

 

[Taken]

Good post. But this is where we part company doctrinally. (which is fine)
Your position is common among many Christians, but doesn't resonate with me.
Why preach to saved souls in the realm of the dead?

1 Peter 3:19-20 NIV
After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah...

Disobedience IS, “a man agreeing” to abide by Gods Word, THEN not doing what he agreed with.

Agreeing “WITH” the Word of God, is much later, from the days of Noah, revealed, He IS JESUS, WHO is the Lord.

“WITH” holds the understanding; a man honoring his “agreement” to DO as Gods Word says…IS:
A man the Lord God WILL be “WITH”.
And the Lord God WILL the man be “WITH”.
IF and WHEN, a man STOPS honoring his “agreement”;
The man STOPS being “WITH” the Lord God;
AND…the Lord God STOPS being “WITH” that man.

Anciently we find MEN “agreeing” and “with” the Lord God.

EX 19
[8] And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

Thereafter Anciently, we find men Blessed, when they keep “their” word, and men in Hardships and Duress when they fail to keep “their” word…which hangs on the balance of the Lord God “with and or without” them.

To this day….^ THAT ^ has not changed.

What has changed, is an offering unto mankind AND guarantee of assuredness of a man WHO accepts the Lord Gods Offering:
For the Spirit (power) of God to enter the man (circumcise his heart), plant a new seed (Gods Seed) to birth that man a new spirit (ie new truth, Gods truth, Gods Word), in that mans new heart.
AND…forever that NewNess, would remain WITH and IN that man VIA the Power of God
(Rather than the wishy washy ever changing power of the man.)

A man agreeing BY his own word to DO as Gods Word says, is one thing, that a mans own will-power keeps or deflects.

A man agreeing BY his own word AND offering his “own bodily life unto death FOR the Lord God”, AS A mans act of his own Assured True Word of Belief…. IS the man to WHOM the Lord God responds WITH His Promise, Faithfulness and Works to Transform that man ONCE and FOREVER..
(Ie. Gods forgiveness, Gods circumcision, Gods Seed, Gods Power, Gods Truth, With that man.)

For such a man; WHO is still naturally bodily Alive (ie his blood life); still living in a corrupt World, will/shall suffer at the hands and deeds and tribulations of underhanded, corrupt, threatening, forceful men.
It’s a natural worldly dilemma that affects the man’s FLESH body, mind, comfort…YET has zero effect on the mans inner peace WITH the Lord God.

When Jesus’ Living departed Soul and Christ’s Spirit (power) of God entered Hell and Preached; He Preached with ONE Word of Truth.
WHO “heard” His preaching is Not a Mystery.
BOTH “saved and unsaved” souls occupying each side of the great Dividing Gulf, could “HEAR” Jesus’ Preaching.
The SAVED, were learning their Savior had come to Earth, Accomplished His Works, AND Their souls would SOON be rising Up to Heaven.
The UNSAVED, were learning the Same, and that which APPLIED to the SAVED souls, would Not Apply to them.

It’s is a kin to ANY Preacher speaking to a congregation…the Individual Hearing KNOWS by their own personal choices and beliefs, what is being Preached applies to them … or not.

The concept of Christ Jesus preaching in Hell, is nothing new; meaning men being Informed via the Word of God, of a prophetic expectation of what will, shall occur and a general time frame of: near, soon, quick.

Glory to God,
Taken