Did America Have a Christian Founding?
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This is true, BUT God has used America mightily! You may not know this, but America has sent out more missionaries to preach the gospel than any other nation. At least, that is what I have heard from missionary organizations.
Even if this is true consider these words of Jesus:
"And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living." Mark 12:41-44
How does the wealth of other countries who send out missionaries compare with the wealth of the United States? Who is following the lead of the poor widow giving "even all of her living"? Is anyone there? Help us dear Lord!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Amadeus could I get you to explain that a little further.
How you and wifey doing?
We are doing very well and are quite blessed in spite of limitations caused by the lockdowns in our community. Thank you. And you and yours!
I guess that there are lots of people living [physically] very comfortably [in the USA and in Western countries in particular ] while giving away a fair portion of their own excess to help people in need. Of course that they give anything is good, but consider than how many really purposely anything approaching what that poor widow did with her two mites.
Consider then also the young rich ruler who came to Jesus asking what he needed to gain eternal life and was told to sell everything he owned and give it to the poor. He could not. How many people today would react like that rich young ruler if so asked by Jesus?
God is watching everyone of us... so then read what Jesus says here:
"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48
Americans in general have been richly blessed in many things over the years... What have they done with they have received? What are doing with it now. This speaks not only of money, but of everything including time, education, good homes, etc.
"Much is given, much is required"! Consider the difference between a rich penny pinching American and a dirt poor generous Haitian as God would see them! Well the average American may not consider himself rich, but if he never goes hungry for even a day how close is he to the poor Haitian?
Where I once attended church they supported a mission in Haiti which received periodic food from the U.S. to distribute to hungry Haitians. After the large earthquake there in 2010 when someone came in asking for food, the asker in turn would be asked how long it had been since he had eaten. If it were less than 3 days, they turned them away in order not to run out of food for other people in greater need. How many people in the United States would complain if they had to skip even one meal out of three in one day? Even in a disaster situation?
That is the physical. The spiritual...? Help us dear Lord to always have available what Peter and John had and readily shared at the Beautiful Gate of the temple.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
It is kind of a complex topic, and is nearly apples and oranges grapefruits, when we compare the American standard of living, to Christ time, to third world countries.
You could come away from the Gospels thinking that Christ hated the wealthy and none would make it to heaven, but that is not true. You could come away with the belief that you would have to give away everything you have and walk around with the shirt on your back, living a bohemian lifestyle to be a Christian, but that is not true.
We all should give to charity and the Church....America is a very charitable country. But if they gave everything away, the next day they would have nothing to give. Poor people do not employ people and they do not feed the hungry. There is always going to be the poor and there is always going to be those that believe that their fair share is in someone else's pocket.
Giving is in itself is a show of character and compassion, but giving does not always solve things. Giving is always important, the widow with the penny, as with a Christian that is down and out that gives a penny today is doing the right thing. To some degree it is an act of desperation. But always give.
Charity can temporarily relieve human suffering and we should do that. But usually there is a set of conditions that we cannot change. The homeless in our country is a good example. If you gave them a home with a refrigerator full of food, many of them would bag up the food and go back to living under a bridge. Then there are those that if they had a little help they would be on their feet and running. So all we can do is give what we can to charity, leave the rest up to God.
As far as Covid and my family, they call it Mineral Area here. Lots of old mines and lots of working mines, lots of piles of mining debris. Covid does not like minerals, specifically zinc. We do not pay a lot of attention to Covid here, only a few masks. Stores, churches, and businesses are open and traffic is normal. No Covid patients in the hospital and the local hospital has had only one since this started and he was cured in a week with hydroxychloroquine and zithromax. Keep that in mind.
God bless
What a coincidence. Most cases of flu can also be "cured" in a week, with hydroxychloroquine and zithromax. Common colds, too.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Yes, God can do it and always fairly which is why we are not to do it. Overall we usually don't qualify although once in a while God may let us see some things about one person or some people.
This is one good reason we must do more than "read the Gospels" and the other scriptures. Jesus only told one man to sell everything. But... we must be willing to do whatever he does tells us to do. Often people do not hear him and of course the fault is their own. The basic reason is mixed up priorities.
Again here lies the importance of being one of his sheep always so we can always hear what He is saying to us. A, yes, for one person as an answer to a certain question may be correct for one person now, but it may require a ,no, the next time around. The correct answer depends upon what part of the Body of Christ we are , or are to be, and where we are on the highway of holiness [presuming we are on it].
I don't worry about Covid personally but I am concerned for my offspring who will have to deal with the economic effects probably long after I am gone. I pray for them.
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What a coincidence. Most cases of flu can also be "cured" in a week, with hydroxychloroquine and zithromax. Common colds, too.
Don't worry about it. Kind of an inside joke.
Don't worry about it. Kind of an inside joke.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I think as an analogy I could offer the example of Bill Gates who is renowned for his generosity to charities ( and the WHO and various UN NGOs but that's another story) by the tune of millions of dollars. But compared to what he is actually worth, it's infintesimal. He is worth many billions of dollars the half if which if given away could house all the homeless in America and Australia and then some.
So compare this to the missionary work from a nation I fully admit has been greatly blessed with the scriptures and the means and opportunities to share the gospel, yet had shared in the main a perverted gospel. And compared to the efforts of missionaries in third world countries and places like Russia and China...I still hear American Christians claiming they are under persecution!!!
So compare this to the missionary work from a nation I fully admit has been greatly blessed with the scriptures and the means and opportunities to share the gospel, yet had shared in the main a perverted gospel. And compared to the efforts of missionaries in third world countries and places like Russia and China...I still hear American Christians claiming they are under persecution!!!
Answering the topic's fundamental question, "Did America have a Christian founding?" The answer is yes, but it was in the form of escapism where many "Christians" escaped the horrors of the fundamentalists who where imposing their rigid belief systems onto the masses within the European nations at that time.
Was there a fundamental unity within the Christian community that was leaving Europe at that time to travel to the New Americas? The answer is NO.
Shalom
Was there a fundamental unity within the Christian community that was leaving Europe at that time to travel to the New Americas? The answer is NO.
Shalom
Hence the 1st Amendment, recognizing freedom from religion as well as freedom religion, intended for adherents of every religion, or even no religion at all.
What you're saying here doesn't fit the Puritans at all. They were fundamentalists in that they adhered to the Bible. In fact, the Puritans started some of the first community schools in the country in order to teach children to read the Bible.
Massachusetts passed the Old Deluder Satan Act in 1647, laying the basis for public schools in America. The Puritans valued literacy highly; they believed all individuals should be able to read and interpret the Bible for themselves. In 1642 Massachusetts had required parents to ensure their children’s ability to read, and five years later, in this act, the state mandated community schooling.
Source: Old Deluder Satan Act of 1647
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Source: Old Deluder Satan Act of 1647
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There is always an exception to disprove a theory that can be found.
Not all of the "Fundamental Christians" travelled to the New Americas at the same time, but pockets of people who left the European continent to travel the Americas and established themselves in different locals within the American Continent.
The unity was not always accepted. The Catholics left to avoid the reformation and they were not treated that well by the "Christians" that had gone before them. In Fact the hatred of the Catholics flourished more in America than in Europe.
ANA Baptists travelled to America because of the persecutions they faced in Europe.
Jews travelled to America because of their persecution in Europe.
There is not one answer that fits all within this question.
People were given liberty to worship as they saw fit when the constitution was established.
In other words that were allowed free choice of how or what they worshipped within the confines of the limitations of the laws surrounding those choices.
Freedom is a spiritual entity and not a physical entity and as such it cannot be defined in the manner in which you are using it.
Not quite that simple. It wasn't until the Bill of Rights that those liberties were guaranteed. And it wasn't until Amendment XIV that the states were also required to observe our religious freedoms.
Or didn't worship at all.
The Constitution puts no limits at all on religious freedoms, other than to prohibit any imposition of religious belief on others.
Which was my point.
It cannot be defined in the manner in which you are using it.
Typical American understanding of what Freedom is.
You said: - "The Constitution puts no limits at all on religious freedoms, other than to prohibit any imposition of religious belief on others."
which is exactly in line with what I had posted concerning out liberties where you are defining "Freedom" as you "free choices" which is not freedom at all.
Know what I mean?
Yeah, that's how it works. If the state can let anyone's freedoms be abridged, then no one's freedoms are safe.
Not at all.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
So the question is; Did America have a christian founding.
The answer is; Yes.
To the point that the definition of religion in America was, Christianity.
Voodoo, Hindu, Witchcraft, Budda, and Islam did not qualify.
If fact, it took them a little while for them to warm up to the Jews and Catholics.
The answer is; Yes.
To the point that the definition of religion in America was, Christianity.
Voodoo, Hindu, Witchcraft, Budda, and Islam did not qualify.
If fact, it took them a little while for them to warm up to the Jews and Catholics.
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