Did Christians invent the Trinity-2

[Matthias]

Matthias I have no doubt that you have the letter.

Thank you. I do, and when I locate it I will post it here.

P.S.

I began looking for it this afternoon. I haven’t found it yet, but I will. What I did find was some personal correspondence I had forgotten about with Dr. Colin Brown (Fuller Theological Seminary; recently deceased). That’s not what I was looking for but it was a very pleasant surprise!

When I retired, I evacuated Atlanta faster than the Johnny Rebs did when General Sherman came to town a few years back.

The Lockman Foundation document is in 1 of 50 boxes. I have a rough idea where it is so I shouldn’t have to go through all 50 to locate it.

 

[Matthias]

Ask Rabbi Google.

They made no such change.

Not that I didn’t believe you, but I checked to see for myself.

Here it is for everyone to see.

Psalm 110 :: New American Standard Bible 2020 (NASB20)

Confirmation that what you reported is true. The Lockman Foundation did not make the change which they told me (and others) - once again I stress this point, in writing - that they would.

That doesn’t speak well of their integrity.

 

[Matthias]

The NASB95 translation I’ve been using since about 1997 is the Side-Column Reference Edition, Copyright 1996.

The margin note it has for Acts 2:34 says this:

“2. Heb. Adonai in Ps 110:1”

I don’t see that note in the online NASB20 posted on Blue Letter Bible, linked in post #102.

The NASB95 I’ve used for a quarter of a century doesn’t have a margin note entry for Psalm 110:1 itself (other than scriptural references.) It’s completely silent about what the Hebrew word there is.

Back now to the NASB95 margin note for Acts 2:34. It clearly says Adonai, and that’s absolutely false. Anyone who can read Hebrew can confirm that it is incorrect for themselves.

P.S.

I also checked the NASB95 margin note on Acts 2:34 at Blue Letter Bible and it doesn’t have the note the Side-Column Reference Edition has which states that the Hebrew word used in Psalm 110:1 is Adonai. I don’t know if it was there previously or not.

Acts 2 :: New American Standard Bible 1995 (NASB95)

 

[Mr E]

Not that I didn’t believe you, but I checked to see for myself.

Here it is for everyone to see.

Psalm 110 :: New American Standard Bible 2020 (NASB20)

Confirmation that what you reported is true. The Lockman Foundation did not make the change which they told me (and others) - once again I stress this point, in writing - that they would.

That doesn’t speak well of their integrity.

Post the letter Matt.

 

[Matthias]

Post the letter Matt.

I will when I find it. It’s in 1 of 50 boxes. I’ve looked in 12 boxes so far. When I get home this afternoon I’ll resume the search. It’s only a matter of time.

What will you do after I post it?

 

[Matthias]

@RLT63 did the Trinity kill King Saul (1 Chronicles 10:14)?

 

[RLT63]

@RLT63 did the Trinity kill King Saul (1 Chronicles 10:14)?

I think that's speaking figuratively. Saul felt on his sword.

 

[Taken]

Did Christians Invent the Trinity - 2
OP ^

No.


God revealed His WORD......Lord..........Son
God revealed His WILL........God...........Father
God revealed His POWER.....Almighty.....Spirit

Gen 1
[1] In the beginning God created (WILL) the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit (POWER) of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, (WORD) Let there be light: and there was light.

TRI-3
NITY-UNITED

 

[Matthias]

I think that's speaking figuratively. Saul felt on his sword.

Thanks. Saul did in fact fall on his sword.

“Therefore Saul took his sword and fell on it.”

(1 Chronicles 10:4)

The chapter was in my Bible reading plan yesterday. I thought about you when I read verse 14.

“So Saul died for his trespass which he committed against the LORD, because of the word of the LORD which he did not keep; and also because he asked counsel of a medium, making inquiry of it, and did not inquire of the LORD. Therefore He killed him and turned the kingdom to David the son of Jesse.”

(1 Chronicles 10:13-14)

Italics is mine.

“He [the LORD] killed him [Saul],” not the Trinity killed him.

The Trinity is he, but each member of the Trinity is a he. Three he’s who are one he.

The “he” who killed Saul is Yahweh, not Jesus nor the Trinity.

I happen to be using the NASB Quick Study Bible with the reading plan I’m following this year - the reading plan is called “The Bible Companion”. I use it once every decade, and have for the past four decades.

“10:14 HE KILLED HIM. This statement is shocking in its bluntness. In the final analysis, Saul’s death was not by his own hand, but by the hand of God. The Lord let Saul pursue a course that led to death.”

(NASB study note)

Did you notice that the text translation is “LORD” but the study note is “Lord”?

The study note would have raised my eyebrows if it had said “lord” - the adoni title used in the Hebrew Bible for persons who aren’t Yahweh. That would have caused me to think about the unnamed Messiah in Psalm 110:1 - which isn’t at all what the person who wrote the study note had in mind.

 

[Matthias]

“and didn’t inquire of Yahweh. So he killed him, and turned the kingdom over to David the son of Jesse.”

(1 Chronicles 10:14, WEB)

Yahweh, in some sense, killed King Saul, who committed suicide by falling on his sword.

“Yahweh says to my Lord …”

(Psalm 110:1, WEB)

The same Yahweh who killed King Saul speaks to someone in the prophetic oracle who isn’t Yahweh. But the translator is putting one over on us.

The Hebrew word for the person whom Yahweh is addressing in Psalm 110:1 is adoni - lord; 195 occurrences in the OT. Always used as a non-deity title.

By capitalizing the “l” the translator is leading the reader to believe that the Hebrew word is not adoni but rather adonai, a title used in scripture to refer to Yahweh.

Why didn’t the translator render the passage as follows:

“Yahweh says to my Yahweh …”?

Because doing so gives the game away.

“‘My Jehovah’ would be an unheard of monstrosity.”

(Edwin Abbott Abbott, Johannine Grammar, p. 94)

 

[Mr E]

I will when I find it. It’s in 1 of 50 boxes. I’ve looked in 12 boxes so far. When I get home this afternoon I’ll resume the search. It’s only a matter of time.

What will you do after I post it?

Be surprised.

 

[Matthias]

Be surprised.

Then you had better brace yourself. It’s coming.

 

[Matthias]

“Here is the LORD’s proclamation to my lord …”

(Psalm 110:1, NET)

“… NET chooses to use lower case here in the Psalm (‘my lord’) due to its original context, even though we now know it to be ultimately fulfilled by our Lord.”

Psalms 110

“Original context” should always be a priority in translation.

Changing the original context to fit a post-biblical concept changes the original story. It doesn’t allow people who lived in biblical times to be what they actually were.

 

[RLT63]

Thanks. Saul did in fact fall on his sword.

“Therefore Saul took his sword and fell on it.”

(1 Chronicles 10:4)

The chapter was in my Bible reading plan yesterday. I thought about you when I read verse 14.

“So Saul died for his trespass which he committed against the LORD, because of the word of the LORD which he did not keep; and also because he asked counsel of a medium, making inquiry of it, and did not inquire of the LORD. Therefore He killed him and turned the kingdom to David the son of Jesse.”

(1 Chronicles 10:13-14)

Italics is mine.

“He [the LORD] killed him [Saul],” not the Trinity killed him.

The Trinity is he, but each member of the Trinity is a he. Three he’s who are one he.

The “he” who killed Saul is Yahweh, not Jesus nor the Trinity.

I happen to be using the NASB Quick Study Bible with the reading plan I’m following this year - the reading plan is called “The Bible Companion”. I use it once every decade, and have for the past four decades.

“10:14 HE KILLED HIM. This statement is shocking in its bluntness. In the final analysis, Saul’s death was not by his own hand, but by the hand of God. The Lord let Saul pursue a course that led to death.”

(NASB study note)

Did you notice that the text translation is “LORD” but the study note is “Lord”?

The study note would have raised my eyebrows if it had said “lord” - the adoni title used in the Hebrew Bible for persons who aren’t Yahweh. That would have caused me to think about the unnamed Messiah in Psalm 110:1 - which isn’t at all what the person who wrote the study note had in mind.

1 Samuel 16:23 how can an evil spirit be from God?

 

[RLT63]

“and didn’t inquire of Yahweh. So he killed him, and turned the kingdom over to David the son of Jesse.”

(1 Chronicles 10:14, WEB)

Yahweh, in some sense, killed King Saul, who committed suicide by falling on his sword.

“Yahweh says to my Lord …”

(Psalm 110:1, WEB)

The same Yahweh who killed King Saul speaks to someone in the prophetic oracle who isn’t Yahweh. But the translator is putting one over on us.

The Hebrew word for the person whom Yahweh is addressing in Psalm 110:1 is adoni - lord; 195 occurrences in the OT. Always used as a non-deity title.

By capitalizing the “l” the translator is leading the reader to believe that the Hebrew word is not adoni but rather adonai, a title used in scripture to refer to Yahweh.

Why didn’t the translator render the passage as follows:

“Yahweh says to my Yahweh …”?

Because doing so gives the game away.

“‘My Jehovah’ would be an unheard of monstrosity.”

(Edwin Abbott Abbott, Johannine Grammar, p. 94)

Adoni is translated Lord 31 times in the KJV .it is also translated master and lord. Genesis 1:1 (KJV) H113 - 'āḏôn - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

 

[Matthias]

Adoni is translated Lord 31 times in the KJV .it is also translated master and lord. Genesis 1:1 (KJV) H113 - 'āḏôn - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

Pick a card. Any card.

When I say “card” I mean verse.

 

[Matthias]

1 Samuel 16:23 how can an evil spirit be from God?

How can it not be if the passage says it it?

 

[Matthias]

Pick a card. Any card.

When I say “card” I mean verse.

Or don’t. It was an invitation, not a command.

The invitation was declined. There’s nothing wrong with that.

 

[RLT63]

Or don’t. It was an invitation, not a command.

The invitation was declined. There’s nothing wrong with that.

I think there were 31 but you have to go through all the occurrences of the word to find them. Check Blue Letter Bible, I posted the link.

 

[Matthias]

I think there were 31 but you have to go through all the occurrences of the word to find them. Check Blue Letter Bible, I posted the link.

What I invited you to do is select one of your own choosing and we could examine it together.

Adoni occurs 195 times in the OT and I provided a complete list of every occurrence. It is a title which is never used in scripture in reference to Yahweh.

Adon, on the other hand, is a root word, and it is used in reference to Yahweh in scripture, as well as in reference to persons who aren’t Yahweh.