Did Christians invent the Trinity-2
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RLT63
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Following is a list of all 195 occurrences of the Hebrew word adoni in scripture. We can use any translation with the list. If the translation doesn’t say “lord” then the translation is incorrect.
- Genesis 18:12
- Genesis 23:6
- Genesis 23:11
- Genesis 23:15
- Genesis 24:12
- Genesis 24:12
- Genesis 24:14
- Genesis 24:18
- Genesis 24:27
- Genesis 24:27
- Genesis 24:27
- Genesis 24:35
- Genesis 24:36
- Genesis 24:36
- Genesis 24:37
- Genesis 24:39
- Genesis 24:42
- Genesis 24:44
- Genesis 24:48
- Genesis 24:48
- Genesis 24:49
- Genesis 24:54
- Genesis 24:56
- Genesis 24:65
- Genesis 31:35
- Genesis 32:4
- Genesis 32:5
- Genesis 32:18
- Genesis 33:8
- Genesis 33:13
- Genesis 33:14
- Genesis 33:14
- Genesis 33:15
- Genesis 39:8
- Genesis 42:10
- Genesis 43:20
- Genesis 44:5
- Genesis 44:7
- Genesis 44:9
- Genesis 44:16
- Genesis 44:16
- Genesis 44:18
- Genesis 44:18
- Genesis 44:19
- Genesis 44:20
- Genesis 44:22
- Genesis 44:24
- Genesis 44:33
- Genesis 47:18
- Genesis 47:18
- Genesis 47:18
- Genesis 47:25
- Exodus 21:5
- Exodus 32:22
- Numbers 11:28
- Numbers 12:11
- Numbers 32:25
- Numbers 32:27
- Numbers 36:2
- Numbers 36:2
- Joshua 5:14
- Judges 4:18
- Judges 6:13
- Ruth 2:13
- 1 Samuel 1:15
- 1 Samuel 1:26
- 1 Samuel 1:26
- 1 Samuel 22:12
- 1 Samuel 24:6
- 1 Samuel 24:8
- 1 Samuel 24:10
- 1 Samuel 25:24
- 1 Samuel 25:25
- 1 Samuel 25:25
- 1 Samuel 25:26
- 1 Samuel 25:26
- 1 Samuel 25:27
- 1 Samuel 25:27
- 1 Samuel 25:28
- 1 Samuel 25:28
- 1 Samuel 25:29
- 1 Samuel 25:30
- 1 Samuel 25:31
- 1 Samuel 25:31
- 1 Samuel 25:31
- 1 Samuel 25:41
- 1 Samuel 26:17
- 1 Samuel 26:18
- 1 Samuel 26:19
- 1 Samuel 29:8
- 1 Samuel 30:13
- 1 Samuel 30:15
- 2 Samuel 1:10
- 2 Samuel 3:21
- 2 Samuel 4:8
- 2 Samuel 9:11
- 2 Samuel 11:11
- 2 Samuel 11:11
- 2 Samuel 13:32
- 2 Samuel 13:33
- 2 Samuel 14:9
- 2 Samuel 14:12
- 2 Samuel 14:15
- 2 Samuel 14:17
- 2 Samuel 14:17
- 2 Samuel 14:18
- 2 Samuel 14:19
- 2 Samuel 14:19
- 2 Samuel 14:20
- 2 Samuel 14:22
- 2 Samuel 15:15
- 2 Samuel 15:21
- 2 Samuel 15:21
- 2 Samuel 16:4
- 2 Samuel 16:9
- 2 Samuel 18:28
- 2 Samuel 18:31
- 2 Samuel 18:32
- 2 Samuel 19:19
- 2 Samuel 19:19
- 2 Samuel 19:20
- 2 Samuel 19:26
- 2 Samuel 19: 27
- 2 Samuel 19:27
- 2 Samuel 19:28
- 2 Samuel 19:30
- 2 Samuel 19:35
- 2 Samuel 19:37
- 2 Samuel 24:3
- 2 Samuel 24:3
- 2 Samuel 24:21
- 2 Samuel 24:22
- 1 Kings 1:2
- 1 Kings 1:2
- 1 Kings 1:13
- 1 Kings 1:17
- 1 Kings 1:18
- 1 Kings 1:20
- 1 Kings 1:20
- 1 Kings 1:21
- 1 Kings 1:24
- 1 Kings 1:27
- 1 Kings 1:27
- 1 Kings 1:31
- 1 Kings 1:36
- 1 Kings 1:37
- 1 Kings 1:37
- 1 Kings 2:38
- 1 Kings 3:17
- 1 Kings 3:26
- 1 Kings 18:7
- 1 Kings 18:10
- 1 Kings 18:13
- 1 Kings 20:4
- 1 Kings 20:9
- 2 Kings 2:19
- 2 Kings 4:16
- 2 Kings 4:28
- 2 Kings 5:3
- 2 Kings 5:18
- 2 Kings 5:20
- 2 Kings 5:22
- 2 Kings 6:5
- 2 Kings 6:12
- 2 Kings 6:15
- 2 Kings 6:26
- 2 Kings 8:5
- 2 Kings 8:12
- 2 Kings 10:9
- 2 Kings 18:23
- 2 Kings 18:24
- 2 Kings 18:27
- 1 Chronicles 21:3
- 1 Chronicles 21:3
- 1 Chronicles 21:3
- 1 Chronicles 21:23
- 2 Chronicles 2:14
- 2 Chronicles 2:15
- Psalm 110:1
- Isaiah 36:8
- Isaiah 36:9
- Isaiah 36:12
- Jeremiah 37:20
- Jeremiah 38:9
- Daniel 1:10
- Daniel 10:16
- Daniel 10:17
- Daniel 10:17
- Daniel 10: 19
- Daniel 12:8
- Zechariah 1:9
- Zechariah 4:4
- Zechariah 4:5
- Zechariah 4:13
- Zechariah 6:4
I didn’t see “human person” when I skimmed it. I did see “human being”.
Jesus isn’t two beings.
He isn’t a deity being and a human being. One of the Catholic articles I’ve posted makes this point.
In trinitarianism, he is a deity being only, and the deity being took on impersonal human nature at the Incarnation.
I would respond to your source by insisting that a human being is a human person. I would then point out that trinitarianism insists - in fact, has to insist - that Jesus is not a human person.
Have you been taught that Jesus is not a human person?
Oh good grief. You even wrote a letter to point out it doesn’t. Jesus points out that it doesn’t. His whole point is that it’s not about any human being. There are no “humans” in spirit.
No I didn’t. I wrote the letter to point out that the Hebrew word is actually adoni, not adonai.
That isn’t his point at all.
A trinitarian scholar explains why Jesus is not a human person in trinitarian Christology.
“The anhypostasia, impersonality, or, to speak more accurately, the enhypostasia, of the human nature of Christ. This is a difficult point, but a necessary link in the orthodox doctrine of the one God-Man; for otherwise we must have two persons in Christ, and, after the incarnation, a fourth person, and that a human, in the divine Trinity.”
(Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, §142. The Orthodox Christology - Analysis and Criticism)
HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH*
Once we say Jesus is a human person we leave the sphere of trinitarianism.
Once we say Jesus is not a human person we leave the sphere of scripture.
Your claim to have a letter from them agreeing to make this change on your recommendation would be newsworthy— no?
I guarantee that the Lockman Foundation knows what kind of a firestorm would be ignited by such a change.
I’ll await your posting of it and the headlines in Christianity Today that read-
Lockman Foundation Agrees to Amend Psalm 110.
No one. An immortal human person, a Jew, the Messiah, the Son of God, Jesus of Nazareth, is sitting at the right hand of God.
I have the letter - it’s just a matter of retrieving it from storage; and you know I’m a man of my word.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
ANSWER
The humanity of Jesus is as equally important as the deity of Jesus. Jesus was born as a human being while still being totally divine. The concept of the humanity of Jesus co-existing with His deity is difficult for the finite mind of man to comprehend. Nevertheless, Jesus’ nature—wholly man and wholly God—is a biblical fact. There are those who reject these biblical truths and declare that Jesus was a man, but not God (Ebionism). Docetism is the view that Jesus was God, but not human. Both viewpoints are unbiblical and false.
Jesus had to be born as a human being for several reasons. One is outlined in Galatians 4:4–5: “But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.” Only a man could be “born under the law.” No animal or angelic being is “under the law.” Only humans are born under the law, and only a human being could redeem other human beings born under the same law. Born under the law of God, all humans are guilty of transgressing that law. Only a perfect human—Jesus Christ—could perfectly keep the law and perfectly fulfill the law, thereby redeeming us from that guilt. Jesus accomplished our redemption on the cross, exchanging our sin for His perfect righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Another reason Jesus had to be fully human is that God established the necessity of the shedding of blood for the remission of sins (Leviticus 17:11; Hebrews 9:22). The blood of animals, although acceptable on a temporary basis as a foreshadowing of the blood of the perfect God-Man, was insufficient for the permanent remission of sin because “it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins” (Hebrews 10:4). Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God, sacrificed His human life and shed His human blood to cover the sins of all who would ever believe in Him. If He were not human, this would have been impossible.
Furthermore, the humanity of Jesus enables Him to relate to us in a way the angels or animals never can. “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin” (Hebrews 4:15). Only a human could sympathize with our weaknesses and temptations. In His humanity, Jesus was subjected to all the same kinds of trials that we are, and He is, therefore, able to sympathize with us and to aid us. He was tempted; He was persecuted; He was poor; He was despised; He suffered physical pain; and He endured the sorrows of a lingering and most cruel death. Only a human being could experience these things, and only a human being could fully understand them through experience.
Declaring that Jesus has come in the flesh is the mark of a spirit from God, while the Antichrist and all who follow him will deny it (1 John 4:2–3). Jesus has come in the flesh; He is able to sympathize with our human frailties; His human blood was shed for our sins; and He was fully God and fully Man. These are biblical truths that cannot be denied.
Why is the humanity of Jesus important? | GotQuestions.org
RLT63
Well-Known Member
You have to think this one through friend. It’s not as you frame it- some little academic oversight. A translation oopsie. Not at all.
Who would celebrate such a change? There would be dancing at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem because of all people the Jews would immediately recognize that the translate removed a most significant error. They correctly perceive that the translators deliberately made the distinction for one purpose only and that was to bolster the idea that Jesus was divine (aka God).
To remove this insertion would not be an academic exercise, but a theological earthquake.
ANSWER
The humanity of Jesus is as equally important as the deity of Jesus. Jesus was born as a human being while still being totally divine. The concept of the humanity of Jesus co-existing with His deity is difficult for the finite mind of man to comprehend. Nevertheless, Jesus’ nature—wholly man and wholly God—is a biblical fact. There are those who reject these biblical truths and declare that Jesus was a man, but not God (Ebionism). Docetism is the view that Jesus was God, but not human. Both viewpoints are unbiblical and false.
Jesus had to be born as a human being for several reasons. One is outlined in Galatians 4:4–5: “But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.” Only a man could be “born under the law.” No animal or angelic being is “under the law.” Only humans are born under the law, and only a human being could redeem other human beings born under the same law. Born under the law of God, all humans are guilty of transgressing that law. Only a perfect human—Jesus Christ—could perfectly keep the law and perfectly fulfill the law, thereby redeeming us from that guilt. Jesus accomplished our redemption on the cross, exchanging our sin for His perfect righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Another reason Jesus had to be fully human is that God established the necessity of the shedding of blood for the remission of sins (Leviticus 17:11; Hebrews 9:22). The blood of animals, although acceptable on a temporary basis as a foreshadowing of the blood of the perfect God-Man, was insufficient for the permanent remission of sin because “it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins” (Hebrews 10:4). Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God, sacrificed His human life and shed His human blood to cover the sins of all who would ever believe in Him. If He were not human, this would have been impossible.
Furthermore, the humanity of Jesus enables Him to relate to us in a way the angels or animals never can. “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin” (Hebrews 4:15). Only a human could sympathize with our weaknesses and temptations. In His humanity, Jesus was subjected to all the same kinds of trials that we are, and He is, therefore, able to sympathize with us and to aid us. He was tempted; He was persecuted; He was poor; He was despised; He suffered physical pain; and He endured the sorrows of a lingering and most cruel death. Only a human being could experience these things, and only a human being could fully understand them through experience.
Declaring that Jesus has come in the flesh is the mark of a spirit from God, while the Antichrist and all who follow him will deny it (1 John 4:2–3). Jesus has come in the flesh; He is able to sympathize with our human frailties; His human blood was shed for our sins; and He was fully God and fully Man. These are biblical truths that cannot be denied.
Why is the humanity of Jesus important? | GotQuestions.org
Is a human being a human person?
How many beings is Jesus?
How many beings is the Trinity?
How does your source deal with the problem laid out in post #92?
RLT63
Well-Known Member
I was just about to purchase it. If they didn’t make the change that they told me in writing that they would then the man who wrote the letter to me sent me something that isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. When I locate the letter - and I will - and if they didn’t make the change that they assured me they would - then the Lockman Foundation has some explaining to
Others, who I’m still in contact with, also wrote to the Lockman Foundation about it. I’ve seen one of those letters, held it in my hands, and read it myself. I might also be able to get a copy of that letter.
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