Did God Forsake Jesus?

[Stranger]

Please tell us where the words Jesus quoted were written. In what documents?

Every word Jesus quoted from was from the Old Testament Scriptures. Now you tell me, where did Jesus or anyone else quote from a translation?

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

God's oneness defies human understanding, such as when the Father had hidden the date of the end from the Son. So arguements based on the nature of God are moot, as we can't assume to know how that relationship works, its limitations, or lack thereof.

the perspective that God could not look upon sin or ever forsaked Jesus on the cross is not borne out in many other passages, and the reason Jesus made the statement becomes clear only when Nehushtan has been broken up, and the meaning of the statement "The Son Of Man must be raised up like a snake on a pole in order to draw all men unto Himself" is understood.

iow the relationship is right there in plain sight, but if you have made Jesus into God you are not going to be able to embrace it. GG and a couple others have even evinced being comfortable with the aspect of Christ as Nehushtan; i mean, at least they're being honest i guess, but this person has obv accepted the interp of the wise imo on why hast thou forsaken me. Nehushtan tells a different story ok. God did not forsake Jesus on the cross; the statement must be understood a different way.

Jesus is making a statement about the role He is being called into for the many who want to worship Jesus as God,
rather than follow Christ (the glory You gave to Me, I give to them)

Nehushtan worship iow

 

[bbyrd009]

um, Pilate or someone even alluded to it, "it is better that one die for all" stuff

 

[bbyrd009]

iow if you can accept it, God was not in that

at least not in the way that is commonly portrayed to us
now evil is nonetheless used for good,

but it is you that needed the sacrifice, not God.
until you don't anymore, iow
that is 'breaking up Nehushtan'

 

[bbyrd009]

oh daughters of Jerusalem, do not find love until you are ready

 

[lforrest]

iow if you can accept it, God was not in that

at least not in the way that is commonly portrayed to us
now evil is nonetheless used for good,

but it is you that needed the sacrifice, not God.
until you don't anymore, iow
that is 'breaking up Nehushtan'

Jesus still shows us the scars on his hands, so it seems we still need to be reminded. He has earned all honor, praise and glory for what he has accomplished.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus still shows us the scars on his hands, so it seems we still need to be reminded. He has earned all honor, praise and glory for what he has accomplished.

the glory you gave to Me I give to them

not disagreeing ok, changing one's perspective on Christ in this area is not a pleasant journey, sacred cows are demolished, etc. Two Greeks are hidden from when they come to worship Jesus, is prolly what i should say. But explore it for yourself, and come to your own conclusions imo

 

[Willie T]

Every word Jesus quoted from was from the Old Testament Scriptures. Now you tell me, where did Jesus or anyone else quote from a translation?

Stranger

They were never called "Old Testament Scriptures" in those days. Each of the various documents had specific names. What were they?

 

[Stranger]

They were never called "Old Testament Scriptures" in those days. Each of the various documents had specific names. What were they?

Quit playing games. If you have something to say, say it. Again, I ask, where did Jesus quote from a translation?

I distinguish 'Old Testament' from 'New Testament' for your and others benefit to know the Scripture being referred to. I could just say 'Scripture', which would be legitimate. See, (Dan. 10:21), (Mark 12:10), etc, etc. Look it up in a concordance.

Stranger

 

[Willie T]

Quit playing games. If you have something to say, say it. Again, I ask, where did Jesus quote from a translation?

I distinguish 'Old Testament' from 'New Testament' for your and others benefit to know the Scripture being referred to. I could just say 'Scripture', which would be legitimate. See, (Dan. 10:21), (Mark 12:10), etc, etc. Look it up in a concordance.

Stranger

Have you ever looked down and wondered if you really held the same Bible Jesus had, the one God breathed out supernaturally by inspiration? And further, have you ever wondered if this one is okay, because it is a translation, and not the actual Hebrew or Greek words that God gave to those 40 plus men, who He used to write the Bible?

This is the Bible Jesus Used> The Septuagint was the first translation of the Hebrew Bible; and was made in the third century B.C. by Jewish scribes, who were direct descendents of those trained in Ezra's Great Synagogue of Jerusalem. They were complete experts in the text, being very well versed in Hebrew and Greek.

This translation became very popular among Jews in the first two centuries before Christ because many Jews in those days did not understand Hebrew. Their ancestors had left Israel centuries before, and generation after generation gradually lost the ability to read the Scriptures in Hebrew.

Many of the Jews in Jesus' day used the Septuagint as their Bible. Quite naturally, the early Christians also used the Septuagint in their meetings and for personal reading; and many of the New Testament apostles quoted it when they wrote the Gospels and Epistles in Greek. What is most fascinating is that the order of the books in the Septuagint is the same order in our Bibles today, and not like the Hebrew scrolls. So this means that:Jesus Primarily Used a Translation

Jesus and the Apostles: studied, memorized, used, quoted, and read most often from the Bible of their day, the Septuagint. Since Matthew wrote primarily to convince the Jews that Jesus of Nazareth was indeed their promised Messiah, it follows as a matter of course that his Gospel is saturated with the Hebrew Scriptures. Yet, when Jesus quotes the Old Testament in Matthew, He uses the Hebrew text only 10% of the time, but the Greek LXX translation—90% of the time!

Amazingly, Jesus and Paul used the LXX as their primary Bible. It was just like the Bible each of us holds in our hands, not the original Hebrew Old Testament, but a translation of the Hebrew into Greek. But it was based on exactly the same original and inspired words, and reads just like the Bible we hold in our hands today.

 

[Stranger]

I know that Jesus had the Old Testament Scriptures and not the New. So, no, I have never wondered about the Bible, as to whether or not the Old Testament I have is the same as Jesus had access to. Neither do I wonder about our New Testament either. It too is the Word of God.

Concerning the Septuagint, you have fallen for the common mistake most in Christianity do. There was and is no 'Septuagint'. That which Christ quoted from was the copies of the Old Testament Scriptures, to which He gave His approval that they were the Word of God.

I have had this discussion before and it is long and tedious, but worth it, if you care to pursue it. To begin, all you have to do is see the faulty foundation that the 'idea' of a septuagint is built on. It is built on a fictitious story. And it gets worse from there. Check it out and let me know what you think.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Every word Jesus quoted from was from the Old Testament Scriptures.

not true, Christ Quoted extra-Biblical sources also, and from translated texts, the only ones available to them i guess. Ancient Hebrew would have been as impenetrable to them as Olde Englyshe is to us. Of course Jesus would have been able to read anything i guess, but that isn't the point

 

[bbyrd009]

That which Christ quoted from was the copies of the Old Testament Scriptures

except for the parts that aren't.
Ah i guess you are at least acknowledging they were translations tho; that is what you are saying @ "copies?"
Who would priests be reading Ancient Hebrew to, do you think, if they were "copies?"

to which He gave His approval that they were the Word of God.

ah then just Quote that for us real quick and we'll see then
imo you cannot Quote it bc it is not true

i mean no offense to you, but you are offending yourself with this.
Will you come back and apologize when you have heard Word?

 

[Stranger]

Willie T likes it....but willie T keeps his mouth shut.

Stranger

 

[Willie T]

Willie T likes it....but willie T keeps his mouth shut.

Stranger

Proverbs 26:4 tells me not to get too involved with your fantasies.

 

[brakelite]

that is what tassel-toes will tell you, so by def it is warped imo. Christ is one with God, ergo there was no separation; "God, why have you forsaken Me" is because God does not require sacrifices for sins--ppl do. Hence why "No Son of Man may die for another's sins" is still valid, or, since that is OT, it is expressed NT also right, "no sinner may inherit the kingdom" etc

obv if Jesus covered your sins you would be able to keep sinning and inherit the kingdom, Catholic-style, sin now and ask forgiveness later, right

I agree that no human sacrifice could have been sufficient to meet our need. But it wasn't just a human sacrifice...If it were, the divine part still lived in God as part of the trinity, hence the confusion. It was the Son of God who died. Not just a human body, but a divine personality Who had taken humanity as His own...become one with us in our humanity while retaining His divine nature. God gave His Son. His Son became man. But a divine person died on Calvary. Not just a human person.

 

[Stranger]

Proverbs 26:4 tells me not to get too involved with your fantasies.

The fantasy is yours. See #70.

You presented it. Why should you not get involved?

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree that no human sacrifice could have been sufficient to meet our need. But it wasn't just a human sacrifice...If it were, the divine part still lived in God as part of the trinity, hence the confusion. It was the Son of God who died. Not just a human body, but a divine personality Who had taken humanity as His own...become one with us in our humanity while retaining His divine nature. God gave His Son. His Son became man. But a divine person died on Calvary. Not just a human person.

yes, i am fam with the common (logical) interpretation, and all i can say there is there's more steps on that ladder; Jesus was not addressing Father as "God" for no reason there for instance, that can be followed out to its conclusion i guess, although i didn't come to the truth that way, that was just more supporting evidence for me. "I have given them the glory You have given Me. May they be one as We are one" is another pointer. Two Greeks came to worship Jesus and He "hid from them." Nehushtan must be broken up. You say "Son of God," He says "Son of Man."
etc

 

[bbyrd009]

John 11
(35Jesus wept.
36So the Jews said, “See how He loved him! ”
37But some of them said, “Couldn’t He who opened the blind man’s eyes also have kept this man from dying? 
38Then Jesus, angry in Himself again, came to the tomb.)
so we got 40 vv on "Lazarus"--a proxy for the priesthood, "Eleazer"--and then this,
49One of them, Caiaphas,at who was high priestau that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all!
50You’re not considering that it is to yourav advantage that one man should die for the people rather than the wholenation perish.”aw
51He did not say this on his own, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesuswas going to dieax for the nation,
52and not for the nation only, but also to unite the scattered childrenay of God.

13First they led Him to Annas, for he was the father-in-law of Caiaphas, who was high priest that year.

2 Corinthians 5:14 Lexicon: For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;

hopefully it begins to become clear that Jesus was not speaking for Himself on the cross, and Lazarus is a proxy for Caiaphas/Annas (Eleazer), and there is a reason that Lazarus and Caiaphas are being discussed in the same chapter; we are getting the spiritual pov and the flesh pov in the same chapter

 

[bbyrd009]

another way to perceive this is that you might easily find yourself embracing the Jesus set up for and even "prophesied" for by the Jewish Sanhedrin, how comfortable does this make you?