Did I Miss A Celestial Sign Which Had Merit?

[Bobby Jo]

Scripture suggests that there will be GOD Ordained celestial events in the end times:

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.​

Toward this, it's easy for me to explain the significance of the 1997 Hale Bopp comet and also the significance of the 2014 to 2015 series of Blood Moons; but I can't explain what seemed the highly plausible September 23, 2017 alignment of stars and planets regarding the constellation Virgo ("the virgin"):

The astronomical details seemed accurate, and the Scriptural basis seemed to have strong foundation, but nothing seemed to come of it.

Now I'm not asking the scoffers, but am asking those that understand Bible Prophecy if there's a fulfillment, -- partial or full --, which I missed?


Thanks,
Bobby Jo

 

[Naomi25]

I hope you don't see this as me being a "naysayer", because I'm not...or, at least, I don't see myself as a naysayer. I believe in Christ's return, and look forward to it eagerly!
I see scripture as speaking about these very 'cosmic' signs in a way that can only describe Christ's actual return. As in...these cosmic events seem to be descriptive of the moment (or moments beforehand) when he returns. I say this because Matt 24 (and corresponding Luke and Mark passages) clearly speak of the events happening together:

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other. -Matthew 24:29–31

But then when we turn to look at Revelation, we see events throughout the book which can only be Christ's return, and the cosmic, earth-shaking events that occur with it are such that place the very cosmos in peril.

When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” -Revelation 6:12–17


Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”...Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. -Revelation 11:15, 19


The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” And there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as there had never been since man was on the earth, so great was that earthquake. The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered Babylon the great, to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath. And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found. And great hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people; and they cursed God for the plague of the hail, because the plague was so severe. -Revelation 16:17–21

Each portray the event slightly differently, but there are clear similarities; enough that link them clearly. When Christ comes, the moon and sun will not give their light, the heavens and earth will be shaken, the sky will 'roll up like a scroll', mountains will flee away, thunder and lightning and hail will lash the earth. 2 Peter 3:10-13 tells us that when the Lord comes all things will be burned up, melted. Our world will come to an end...or, perhaps a better term...rebirth, resurrection through fire. And it all happens on the Day of the Lord...when Jesus Christ returns.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello

The Greek words that have G:4758 embedded in them should be translated as turmoil and not as "earthquake." In Matthew 8:24 σεισμὸς is translated as "tempest" or "storm" and not as "earthquake" as found in Matt 28:2, Acts 16:26, Revelation 6:12, 11:13, 11:19, 16:18, 16:18, which means that there are inconsistencies in the translators understanding as to what the intended context of σεισμὸς was to convey.

Which of the following variations to the way Matthew 8:24 is rendered below give the right context for this verse?

a.
Matthew 8:24: - 24 And suddenly a great tempest arose on the sea, so that the boat was covered with the waves. But He was asleep.

b.
Matthew 8:24: - 24 And suddenly a great earthquake arose on the sea, so that the boat was covered with the waves. But He was asleep.
c.
Matthew 8:24: - 24 And suddenly a great turmoil arose on the sea, so that the boat was covered with the waves. But He was asleep.​

The rendered verse in a. above is the usual tradition in which the verse is translated.

The rendered verse in b. above is the way the verse should be translated if the Greek word σεισμὸς is consistently translated as it is in the above listed verses.

The rendered verse in c. above is the way the verse should be translated as the sea can be in turmoil, especially the Lake of Galilee, where the waves produced by the wind are reflected off of the edges of the lake so that the waves are coming from all directions producing standing waves which can tower up over a small boat and swamp it causing it to sink. The disciples were not concerned with the rain from the storm, or the wind in the storm, but they were concerned with the turmoil of the waves in the sea as they knew that a standing wave caused by the turmoil of the wave in the Sea of Galilee could sink the boat that they were crossing the sea in.

Jesus had to do two things to calm the turmoil in the sea, first He had to stop the wind which was producing the waves, and secondly He had to stop the waves by flattening them so that the sea was flat, i.e. there were no waves after the wind had stopped. Waves in water will continue to travel across the surface of the water until they dampen themselves out, i.e. lose all of their energy.

The waves presently coming ashore along the Australian east coast because of a cyclone off the coast are being reflected off the beaches and these reflected waves will travel all of the way across the Pacific Ocean to the shoreline of North and South America.

Now I know that an earthquake cannot occur in a liquid as no "shear" forces can be generated in water only pressure waves.

If the Greek word σεισμὸς in Matthew 8:24 should be translated as "turmoil" in all of the other passages i.e. Matt 28:2, Acts 16:26, Revelation 6:12, 11:13, 11:19, 16:18, 16:18, then the passages referenced above in a previous post should be also translated as 'turmoil' so that all of these verses should also be translated as a variation of "turmoil".

σεισμῷ — 1 Occ. - Revelation 11:13
σεισμοὶ — 3 Occ. - Matthew 24:7, Mark 13:8, Luke 21:11
σεισμὸν — 1 Occ. - Matthew 27:54
σεισμὸς — 9 Occ. - Matthew 8:24, 28:2, Acts 16:26, Revelation 6:12, 8:5, 11:13, 11:19, 16:18, 16:18

Because of these miss translation of G:4578, people are looking for "EARTHQUAKES" as a sign to indicate the occurrence of a prophetic event. However, if they were to be looking for a "TURMOIL" event in the lives of people, either global or within a localised area, then a very different contextual understanding is reached.

How could a "great earthquake" occur when the Angel came down from heaven to roll away the stone used to seal the tomb? It would have been devastating for Jerusalem.

However, there was great "turmoil" within the people when the Angel come down from heaven and roll away the stone.

The translators attempted to be consistent in their translation of σεισμὸς but their understanding of the context of what had been recorded was not consistent with the original context of the source text they were translating.

Sadly, if the translations were changed to effect this correction, in the translations, all hell will break lose within the people, as they worship the "sacred" translations that they love and they believe that they cannot nor should they ever be changed to reflect the truth of the matter.

Shalom

 

[Willie T]

"Oh Gosh! I couldn't have possibly misread and misinterpreted Scripture, could I?" (Uh.... yep, you sure could have.)

 

[Jay Ross]

"Oh Gosh! I couldn't have possibly misread and misinterpreted Scripture, could I?" (Uh.... yep, you sure could have.)

I assume that is the collective you, yes?

 

[Bobby Jo]

I guess with all esteemed "students of Scripture", there is no one that can answer the question as to the Constellation Virgo, -- the vrigin.

That's ok, because it escapes me, -- but I can explain the significance of Hale Bop, which seems to have escaped the ENTIRE "christian"/"Christian" community. And if there are any takers to the challenge, it would be interesting to see what others might (presumably) guess.

Bobby Jo

 

[dismas]

Scripture suggests that there will be GOD Ordained celestial events in the end times:

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.​

Toward this, it's easy for me to explain the significance of the 1997 Hale Bopp comet and also the significance of the 2014 to 2015 series of Blood Moons; but I can't explain what seemed the highly plausible September 23, 2017 alignment of stars and planets regarding the constellation Virgo ("the virgin"):

The astronomical details seemed accurate, and the Scriptural basis seemed to have strong foundation, but nothing seemed to come of it.

Now I'm not asking the scoffers, but am asking those that understand Bible Prophecy if there's a fulfillment, -- partial or full --, which I missed?


Thanks,
Bobby Jo

As I understand it, you didn't miss it, it is happening as we speak. But it will take 7 years (Leviticus 12:2) + 70 weeks (Daniel 9:24) to finish it out.

Overview of Revelation 2019.pdf

 

[Bobby Jo]

As I understand it, you didn't miss it, it is happening as we speak. But it will take 7 years (Leviticus 12:2) + 70 weeks (Daniel 9:24) to finish it out.

Overview of Revelation 2019.pdf

Hi dismas,

What you posted doesn't make sense to me. The image of Virgo which you provide carries the date of 9/23/2017, but your timeline using Daniel's "seventy weeks" starts in April 19, 2018 / May 14, 2018, -- depending on the calendar you choose to use. And then everything runs from that point forward on the "seventy weeks" which has already been fulfilled in the "going forth of the word to rebuild Jerusalem" as happened in the events leading to 1948.

So it appears that there still isn't any "fulfillment" for the 9/23/2018 astrological Virgo event.


Bobby Jo

 

[dismas]

Hi dismas,

What you posted doesn't make sense to me. The image of Virgo which you provide carries the date of 9/23/2017, but your timeline using Daniel's "seventy weeks" starts in April 19, 2018 / May 14, 2018, -- depending on the calendar you choose to use. And then everything runs from that point forward on the "seventy weeks" which has already been fulfilled in the "going forth of the word to rebuild Jerusalem" as happened in the events leading to 1948.

So it appears that there still isn't any "fulfillment" for the 9/23/2018 astrological Virgo event.


Bobby Jo

Dan 9 is about an 'anointed one', not necessarily about Jesus. 'Anointed one' refers to the person that Israel thinks is the 'messiah'

John 5:43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.

Also, just read through Daniel 9:24-27. The 'wall' (in various translations) has everything to do with today (among many other things).

 

[Bobby Jo]

Dan 9 is about an 'anointed one', not necessarily about Jesus. 'Anointed one' refers to the person that Israel thinks is the 'messiah' ...

I almost COMMENDED YOU for your insight, until I read the last half of your statement. The fact is, the "mashiyach", "מָשִׁיחַ", h4899 is defined best by the CEV Footnote (albeit a poor "translation", but correct Footnote):

9.25 the Chosen Leader: Or “a chosen leader.” In Hebrew the word “chosen” means “to pour oil (on someone’s head).” In Old Testament times it was the custom to pour oil on a person’s head when that person was chosen to be a priest or a king.
​

... which defines this person as NOT necessarily Jesus (which it's not), NOT necessarily a person which Israel think is the "messiah" (which it's not), but simply any Priest or King (which it IS). And if you read a proper translation, you should fine one "mashiyach" after the "seven" and a SECOND "mashiyach" after the "sixty-two". (See the following ...)

... The 'wall' (in various translations) has everything to do with today (among many other things).

I think you're reading too much into one "translation". In fact, MOST translations are more commentary than Scripture. Take the zKJV "seven and sixty-two", for which Newton correctly observed that NO society uses number in that fashion. If Daniel intended to say "sixty-nine" he would have said "sixty-nine". So the "seven" is one number, and the "sixty-two" is a separate number, -- with EACH having an "anointed one" at their respective timelines., -- as correctly presented by the RSV:

RSV Dan. 9:25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing ...​

Perhaps if you found the "going forth of the word", which Young observed is NOT from a Persian man-king, but rather a DICTATE directly from GOD, then you could have a TRUE starting point for your seventy "sevens" (which are NOT "sevens", but rather are an inconcise term).


It takes some study, but the fulfillment is readily apparent if you simply do what the TEXT says!


Thanks,
Bobby Jo