Did Jesus claim to be God?

[Truther]

my, my, my, listen, "the transliteration of Yeshua into English "JESUS".

got that? God's name is "Yeshua" it's H3444 OT, and NT G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (yee-sous') n/p.

PICJAG.

Is that the new name of Jesus that nobody knows but he himself?

....and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.


Wow, great.

How did you figure that out?

 

[Cooper]

Can someone tell me Jesus' old name, then his new name?

I have no idea what his new name is...I only know his 2000 year old name.

The English name of Jesus did not exist 2000 years ago. Now his new name of Jesus is known across the world.

The first language in the British Isles was Galic.
Then the Romans came. They spoke Latin.
The Viking brought Norwegian and Danish.
The Normans spoke French. (1066 AD)

Modern English dates from the 9th century but it was with the introduction of the printing press by Thomas Caxton in 1476 that we have this in the 15th century. Even then we do not have the English for Jesus, see below. Ie¯sous is from the Greek.

Ye worshippe ye wote not what. We knowe what we worshippe: For saluation commeth of the Iewes. But the houre commeth, and nowe is, when the true worshippers, shall worshippe the father in spirite, and in the trueth: For such the father also requireth to worshippe hym. God is a spirite, and they that worshippe hym, must worshippe hym in spirite, and in the trueth. The woman sayth vnto hym, I wote that Messias shal come, which is called Christe: when he is come, he wyll tell vs all thynges. Iesus sayth vnto her: I that speake vnto thee, am he.
(John 4:22-26 Bishops Bible 1568)
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[Cooper]

Oh, I see now.

Jesus said this...

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of mySELF, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of mySELF, and the name of the city of mySELF, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from mySELF: and I will write upon him my new name.

Not this....

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

1Timothy 6:3-5 ASV
If any man teacheth a different doctrine, and consenteth not to sound words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but doting about questionings and disputes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, wranglings of men corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, supposing that godliness is a way of gain.

Notice how the Jews call Jesus "Lord."
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[Truther]

1Timothy 6:3-5 ASV
If any man teacheth a different doctrine, and consenteth not to sound words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but doting about questionings and disputes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, wranglings of men corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, supposing that godliness is a way of gain.

Notice how the Jews call Jesus "Lord."
.

Yes, he is both lord AND God.

He is God only by the Col 2:9 effect on his spirit body...after being resurrected.

He is not a dead/resurrected God that originated in some woman's ovaries.

 

[Truther]

The English name of Jesus did not exist 2000 years ago. Now his new name of Jesus is known across the world.

The first language in the British Isles was Galic.
Then the Romans came. They spoke Latin.
The Viking brought Norwegian and Danish.
The Normans spoke French. (1066 AD)

Modern English dates from the 9th century but it was with the introduction of the printing press by Thomas Caxton in 1476 that we have this in the 15th century. Even then we do not have the English for Jesus, see below. Ie¯sous is from the Greek.

Ye worshippe ye wote not what. We knowe what we worshippe: For saluation commeth of the Iewes. But the houre commeth, and nowe is, when the true worshippers, shall worshippe the father in spirite, and in the trueth: For such the father also requireth to worshippe hym. God is a spirite, and they that worshippe hym, must worshippe hym in spirite, and in the trueth. The woman sayth vnto hym, I wote that Messias shal come, which is called Christe: when he is come, he wyll tell vs all thynges. Iesus sayth vnto her: I that speake vnto thee, am he.
(John 4:22-26 Bishops Bible 1568)
.

I get that.

What is the new name for Iesous?

 

[brionne]

Many things that Jesus himself said discount the idea of the trinity.

Its notable that the earliest church fathers did not speak of Jesus in such terms. The early church fathers were contemporaries of the apostles and there is no trinity idea mentioned in any of their writings which predate the roman catholic church.

For example, in the Didache there is a 'confessional for faith' that new christians were required to agree with that outlined the christian faith. It includes the following prayer:

“We thank you, Holy Father, for your holy Name which you have made to dwell in our hearts; and for the knowledge and faith and immortality which you have made known to us through Jesus your Servant. Glory to you forever! You, Almighty Master, created everything for your Name’s sake . . . And to us you have graciously given spiritual food and drink, and life eternal through Jesus your Servant.”⁠

If the early church fathers believed Jesus was God, they would never have called him a 'servant'

 

[101G]

Many things that Jesus himself said discount the idea of the trinity.

Its notable that the earliest church fathers did not speak of Jesus in such terms. The early church fathers were contemporaries of the apostles and there is no trinity idea mentioned in any of their writings which predate the roman catholic church.

For example, in the Didache there is a 'confessional for faith' that new christians were required to agree with that outlined the christian faith. It includes the following prayer:

“We thank you, Holy Father, for your holy Name which you have made to dwell in our hearts; and for the knowledge and faith and immortality which you have made known to us through Jesus your Servant. Glory to you forever! You, Almighty Master, created everything for your Name’s sake . . . And to us you have graciously given spiritual food and drink, and life eternal through Jesus your Servant.”⁠

If the early church fathers believed Jesus was God, they would never have called him a 'servant'

GINOLJC, to all.
we must disagree with that assessment. the Lord Jesus who is God "shared" in flesh is the example to set as a servant. in NATURAL flesh as a servant is the suprem example of our pattern. as a servant we "SERVE" one another... in Love. if one would look up the word "serve", 1. perform duties or services for (another person or an organization). 2. present (food or drink) to someone. "servitude" is the prime example that we should follow. well the apostles did it, 1 Corinthians 11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."

and no the early church fatheres knew who the Lord Jesus is, let's check the record of John,
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God."
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

or Thomas, John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." or Disciple Ananias, Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth." and it was the Lord JESUS who is God that choose Paul, then Saul on the road to Damascus. or the Apostle Paul, Titus 3:4 "But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared," WHO appeared? God our Saviour. or the apostle Peter, 2 Peter 1:1 "Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:"


Peter knew the "Diversity" of God first hand. scripture, the incident with Ananias and Sapphira.
Acts 5:1 "But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,"
Acts 5:2 "And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet."
Acts 5:3 "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?" (here Peter clearly identifies the Holy Ghost).
Acts 5:4 "Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God." (here Peter says that the God they lied to was the Holy Ghost)
Acts 5:5 "And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things."
Acts 5:6 "And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him."
Acts 5:7 "And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in."
Acts 5:8 "And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much."
Acts 5:9 "Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out."

she and her husband conspired to LIE to God, who is the "HOLY SPIRIT", who is the same one Person, the "SPIRIT of the Lord". and there is only "ONE" Spirit, and John 4:24a prove that out.

God is a "diversity" of himself, and the apostle Peter knew it. as well as stated by all the early church fathers, disciples and church members.

how come we don't know?

PICJAG.

 

[Cooper]

Many things that Jesus himself said discount the idea of the trinity.

Its notable that the earliest church fathers did not speak of Jesus in such terms. The early church fathers were contemporaries of the apostles and there is no trinity idea mentioned in any of their writings which predate the roman catholic church.

For example, in the Didache there is a 'confessional for faith' that new christians were required to agree with that outlined the christian faith. It includes the following prayer:

“We thank you, Holy Father, for your holy Name which you have made to dwell in our hearts; and for the knowledge and faith and immortality which you have made known to us through Jesus your Servant. Glory to you forever! You, Almighty Master, created everything for your Name’s sake . . . And to us you have graciously given spiritual food and drink, and life eternal through Jesus your Servant.”⁠

If the early church fathers believed Jesus was God, they would never have called him a 'servant'

If it is the Presidents job to serve the people, and he is above all Americans, that puts Jesus who serves his children above all others.

Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Php 2:5-11 ASV)
.

 

[brionne]

If it is the Presidents job to serve the people, and he is above all Americans, that puts Jesus who serves his children above all others.

Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Php 2:5-11 ASV)
.

Hi,

i dont see a trinity idea in that scripture.
I see that it says that Christ did not count himself as being equal to God....and also that it was God who exalted Jesus to a position above all others.
So to me it shows that God is superior and Jesus is someone who subjected himself and was 'obedient' to God.

If Jesus was God this verse would make no sense...if Jesus was God, he would be equal to God which is what the trinity supposes....it says God and Jesus and Holy spirit are all equal. This scripture does not say that, nor does it mention the holy spirit.

 

[Nancy]

Hi,

i dont see a trinity idea in that scripture.
I see that it says that Christ did not count himself as being equal to God....and also that it was God who exalted Jesus to a position above all others.
So to me it shows that God is superior and Jesus is someone who subjected himself and was 'obedient' to God.

If Jesus was God this verse would make no sense...if Jesus was God, he would be equal to God which is what the trinity supposes....it says God and Jesus and Holy spirit are all equal. This scripture does not say that, nor does it mention the holy spirit.

Hello @brionne
Here is more of that verse...

"Rather, he emptied himself,

taking the form of a slave,

coming in human likeness;

and found human in appearance,

8 he humbled himself,

becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross."
(Philippians 2:5-8). The phrase “made Himself of no reputation” means that Christ emptied Himself from His place with God.

It was already known from before time that He would save humanity through His death. He came as a humble servant, and His second coming will be with Justice, and Wrath...King of Kings and Lord of Lords. God will expend His wrath on the wicked.

 

[Cooper]

Hi,

i dont see a trinity idea in that scripture.
I see that it says that Christ did not count himself as being equal to God....and also that it was God who exalted Jesus to a position above all others.
So to me it shows that God is superior and Jesus is someone who subjected himself and was 'obedient' to God.

If Jesus was God this verse would make no sense...if Jesus was God, he would be equal to God which is what the trinity supposes....it says God and Jesus and Holy spirit are all equal. This scripture does not say that, nor does it mention the holy spirit.

There is only One God in heaven and on earth. That is why scripture speaks of equality, because those who believe in the true omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God know that the ONE God revealed himself to us in the form of man for thirty-three years only after completing the work He came to do, whereby He took the sins of the world upon Himself and paid the penalty for those who believe in Him. This, no mere mortal like you and me can do. Only God can redeem those who believe in Him and Jesus is that Redeemer.
.

 

[brionne]

Hello @brionne
Here is more of that verse...

"Rather, he emptied himself,

taking the form of a slave,

coming in human likeness;

and found human in appearance,

8 he humbled himself,

becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross."
(Philippians 2:5-8). The phrase “made Himself of no reputation” means that Christ emptied Himself from His place with God.

It was already known from before time that He would save humanity through His death. He came as a humble servant, and His second coming will be with Justice, and Wrath...King of Kings and Lord of Lords. God will expend His wrath on the wicked.

Hi Nancy,
yes absolutely, he will act to clean up this mess that mankind have created down here.

God Kingdom will come and it will act for the benefit of mankind everywhere. Let it come!

 

[Truther]

Hello @brionne
Here is more of that verse...

"Rather, he emptied himself,

taking the form of a slave,

coming in human likeness;

and found human in appearance,

8 he humbled himself,

becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross."
(Philippians 2:5-8). The phrase “made Himself of no reputation” means that Christ emptied Himself from His place with God.

It was already known from before time that He would save humanity through His death. He came as a humble servant, and His second coming will be with Justice, and Wrath...King of Kings and Lord of Lords. God will expend His wrath on the wicked.

I can see the last Adam, the man Christ Jesus humbling himself etc., but not Almighty God.

I can even see the man daring to be equal with God because he had not sinned.

 

[Cooper]

I can see the last Adam, the man Christ Jesus humbling himself etc., but not Almighty God.

I can even see the man daring to be equal with God because he had not sinned.

If Jesus the miracle worker who raised the dead, healed the sick, turned water into wine and stilled the sea, did all this and more after humbling himself, who was he when he was in heaven?

Remember there is only One in the whole universe. That includes the earth, the most important place ever as regards God's children. Why would God not make himself known to us? He would of course. And to think that some people reject him and put a lot of time and effort into denouncing him. Wake up everybody! Please.
.

 

[Nancy]

If Jesus the miracle worker who raised the dead, healed the sick, turned water into wine and stilled the sea, did all this and more after humbling himself, who was he when he was in heaven?

Remember there is only One in the whole universe. That includes the earth, the most important place ever as regards God's children. Why would God not make himself known to us? He would of course. And to think that some people reject him and put a lot of time and effort into denouncing him. Wake up everybody! Please.
.

"If Jesus the miracle worker who raised the dead, healed the sick, turned water into wine and stilled the sea, did all this and more after humbling himself, who was he when he was in heaven?"

Just want to add one thing to your list of Christ's miracles...He also forgave sin!!!

 

[Cooper]

"If Jesus the miracle worker who raised the dead, healed the sick, turned water into wine and stilled the sea, did all this and more after humbling himself, who was he when he was in heaven?"

Just want to add one thing to your list of Christ's miracles...He also forgave sin!!!

Good point. Only God can forgive sin.
.

 

[Cooper]

Did Jesus claim to be God?

If actions speak louder than words, and they do, Jesus not only claimed to be God, his miracles PROVED he is God.

 

[Truther]

If Jesus the miracle worker who raised the dead, healed the sick, turned water into wine and stilled the sea, did all this and more after humbling himself, who was he when he was in heaven?

Remember there is only One in the whole universe. That includes the earth, the most important place ever as regards God's children. Why would God not make himself known to us? He would of course. And to think that some people reject him and put a lot of time and effort into denouncing him. Wake up everybody! Please.
.

Jesus said that the Father dwelling within him did the works(not Jesus himself) per John 14, correct?...

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

[tigger 2]

Cooper (#296):

"Good point. Only God can forgive sin."
.......................

“Only God can forgive (aphiemi) sins,” say certain trinitarians, “and Jesus forgave sin, Mark 2:7. Therefore, Jesus must be God!” So, John 20:20-23 “proves” that the disciples also must be God, right?

 

[Truther]

Cooper (#296):

"Good point. Only God can forgive sin."
.......................

“Only God can forgive (aphiemi) sins,” say certain trinitarians, “and Jesus forgave sin, Mark 2:7. Therefore, Jesus must be God!” So, John 20:20-23 “proves” that the disciples also must be God, right?

Howbout this...


24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


The Father speaking through the son.