Did Jesus claim to be God?

[DNB]

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

How many watts or lumens?

 

[101G]

Jesus is blinding white light.

Paul will testify to that when the light spoke to him.

If you don't believe Paul, then believe John...


23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

...which is exactly what physically blinded Paul.

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply, seconf are you READING your handbook, called the Bible? listen Revelation 21:23 "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."

Revelation 22:5 "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."

are you getting this?.

PICJAG.

 

[Truther]

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply, seconf are you READING your handbook, called the Bible? listen Revelation 21:23 "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."

Revelation 22:5 "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."

are you getting this?.

PICJAG.

Yeah, Jesus the lamb of God is the Light of the new heaven and earth.

God lights everything THROUGH Jesus.

God is light, therefore Jesus is light.

Paul saw the light that is Jesus and a voice spoke to him saying that He, the light, is Jesus.(Identified himself).

Good thing that Paul asked the light "who are you", huh?

 

[101G]

Yeah, Jesus the lamb of God is the Light of the new heaven and earth.

God lights everything THROUGH Jesus.

God is light, therefore Jesus is light.

Paul saw the light that is Jesus and a voice spoke to him saying that He, the light, is Jesus.(Identified himself).

Good thing that Paul asked the light "who are you", huh?

ERROR, JESUS is God. LOL, LOL, LOL, THROUGH Jesus? my God when will they ever learn. LISTEN, Revelation 22:5 "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."

who is the Lord God Truther? mind you, Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

so truther who is the Lod God? ...... your answer please.

PICJAG.

 

[Truther]

ERROR, JESUS is God. LOL, LOL, LOL, THROUGH Jesus? my God when will they ever learn. LISTEN, Revelation 22:5 "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."

who is the Lord God Truther? mind you, Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

so truther who is the Lod God? ...... your answer please.

PICJAG.

The Lord God giveth them light THROUGH Jesus.

This qualifies Jesus also as the light of God.

This makes Jesus God by default.(Col 2:9)

You must incorporate Rev 21 with Rev 22 or you are biased towards your idea....



23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

...very simply put, God is the source of light and the lamb of God(Jesus His human son), is the bulb that God shines through.

 

[101G]

TO ALL christians who still believe in the false belief that God the Spirit as a separate person from the Son went through him to
A. make all things
B. to light new Jerusalem
C. to save people through Jesus
D. or anything else.

go tell the devil, and let him know, that LIE, "going through someone else", is no longer working. that dog want hunt anymore. ask for a new dog.

PICJAG.

 

[Truther]

TO ALL christians who still believe in the false belief that God the Spirit as a separate person from the Son went through him to
A. make all things
B. to light new Jerusalem
C. to save people through Jesus
D. or anything else.

go tell the devil, and let him know, that LIE, "going through someone else", is no longer working. that dog want hunt anymore. ask for a new dog.

PICJAG.

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


Woof!!

 

[Christianna]

An interesting. When i read the title i stopped and thought about it and I couldn't remember Jesus ever saying it directly
After that, some of the verses which u quoted came to mind. U made some very good points

Then u know what came to mind, the Trinity. Im fairly sure that the bible doesn't use that term of explain the Trinity as we know it
And so for Protestants who are sola scripture how do they explain this doctrine that doesn't appear in the Bible

 

[Christianna]

Thank you and I agree that Jesus is God. God manifested in the flesh. Those scriptures you gave were good, giving a fresh perspective.

 

[101G]

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


Woof!!

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." ...

now, where is your FAITH?........ (smile).

PICJAG

 

[Truther]

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." ...

now, where is your FAITH?........ (smile).

PICJAG

???

 

[Truther]

Thank you and I agree that Jesus is God. God manifested in the flesh. Those scriptures you gave were good, giving a fresh perspective.

What do you think Jesus was speaking about per his God here....


Revelation 3:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


...just curious of what you think he meant by saying he has a God 4 times in the verse, as he had been in heaven for decades already.

 

[Stan B]

Thank you and I agree that Jesus is God. God manifested in the flesh. Those scriptures you gave were good, giving a fresh perspective.

Before Jesus was born, the Angel Gabriel declared:

“He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;" Luke 1:32

And Isaiah declared:

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore." Isaiah 9:6

Scripture is crystal clear that Jesus is: The Son of the Most High, Mighty God, Eternal Father.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC. to all
JESUS is the Almighty God diversified as "SON" in Flesh while on earth. he is no Jr.

To all the christian believers who follow this topic.
Lets understand something concering the Lord Jesus, that child of Isaiah 9:6, the one who laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the works of thine hands, who was "ALONE, ordinal "FIRST", and "BY HIMSELF.

GOD, JESUS,the Almighty ONE is a plurality in “THREE” Depensation. what do we mean? When Moses on the mountain asked God his name and he said, “I AM THAT I AM”. GOD, the LORD Jesus didn't lie. this statement identifies the three Depensation of our LORD and God, JESUS .

Depensation #1. I AM. (the Holy Spirit, JESUS), CREATOR and MAKER of all things. titles, “LORD”, and “Father”. this is his ordinal “FIRST” depensation. and we know that ordinal as an adjective, and not a noun, means relating to a thing's position in a series. So depensation #1. is ordinal “FIRST”.

Depensation #2. “THAT” (the Holy Spirit, JESUS, who came in flesh), “diversified as a man. REDEEMER and SAVIOUR of all things. spirit, “shared” in flesh as the Offspring, (a man), notice the small case “s” in spirit indicating (diversity). this is the ordinal “LAST” as 1 Corinthians 15:45 states. title, “Son”, and “Lord”.

Depensation #3. “I AM” (spirit, glorified as before, Spirit). hence the same “I AM” as the ordinal first. Now spirit in flesh… (without blood, resurrected), the NEW CREATION, or the NEW MAN . COMFORTER, and MEDIATOR. the Holy Spirit, now on earth in man, his BODY, and as head of his body, Son in heaven carrying out Psalms 110:1, and as MEDIATOR 1 John 2:1, and Galatians 3:20. The Father and the Son glorified in each other in the diversified state until the Kingdom is delivered up,1 Corinthians 15:24.

So the three depensation,
“I AM”, Father, ordinal “FIRST”, LORD. This is why he said in Isaiah 44:6 that he is the FIRST and the LAST. "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." me here, is a single designation of two of the same one person. we see clearly the ordinal “FIRST”, and the ordinal “LAST” as "I AM"

“THAT”, Son ordinal “LAST”. 1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
This is why John 1:1 is such a diversified scripture, notice the “WITH” there. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Now watch the ordinal “First”, LORD/Father … WITH ….. the ordinal “LAST”, Lord/Son. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." there is the “WITH”. and if one think that “WITH” indicate a second separate person, listen up. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.". “also indicate the “SAME” one person. So in John 1:1 when he said at the end, “ and the Word was God”, John was not lying. It’s the same one person. so what have confused christian over the many years is God's Depensation in his creation. and the lack of knowledge in understanding his ordinal "FIRST", and his ordinal "LAST".

So there is no doubt that Jesus is the FIRST and the LAST, in Hebrew, it is the … understand this, the ordinal “Aleph”… FIRST. And he is the ordinal “Tav”, LAST. Oh how easy it is to nunderstand the Godhead from God prospective…..

one more, the “I AM THAT I AM” is expressed in Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;"
both which "IS", are Spirit desiginations, and which "WAS", as in John1:1b is natural flesh as Isaiah said the child "THAT" was Born. Which is .. “I AM” … which was … THAT” in natural flesh, and which is to come… “I AM.
Same person, same one God, ordinal FIRST, and ordinal LAST. scripture, Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." AMEN

ONE CANNOT GET ANY PLAINER THAN THAT.

PICJAG.

 

[Truther]

GINOLJC. to all
JESUS is the Almighty God diversified as "SON" in Flesh while on earth. he is no Jr.

To all the christian believers who follow this topic.
Lets understand something concering the Lord Jesus, that child of Isaiah 9:6, the one who laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the works of thine hands, who was "ALONE, ordinal "FIRST", and "BY HIMSELF.

GOD, JESUS,the Almighty ONE is a plurality in “THREE” Depensation. what do we mean? When Moses on the mountain asked God his name and he said, “I AM THAT I AM”. GOD, the LORD Jesus didn't lie. this statement identifies the three Depensation of our LORD and God, JESUS .

Depensation #1. I AM. (the Holy Spirit, JESUS), CREATOR and MAKER of all things. titles, “LORD”, and “Father”. this is his ordinal “FIRST” depensation. and we know that ordinal as an adjective, and not a noun, means relating to a thing's position in a series. So depensation #1. is ordinal “FIRST”.

Depensation #2. “THAT” (the Holy Spirit, JESUS, who came in flesh), “diversified as a man. REDEEMER and SAVIOUR of all things. spirit, “shared” in flesh as the Offspring, (a man), notice the small case “s” in spirit indicating (diversity). this is the ordinal “LAST” as 1 Corinthians 15:45 states. title, “Son”, and “Lord”.

Depensation #3. “I AM” (spirit, glorified as before, Spirit). hence the same “I AM” as the ordinal first. Now spirit in flesh… (without blood, resurrected), the NEW CREATION, or the NEW MAN . COMFORTER, and MEDIATOR. the Holy Spirit, now on earth in man, his BODY, and as head of his body, Son in heaven carrying out Psalms 110:1, and as MEDIATOR 1 John 2:1, and Galatians 3:20. The Father and the Son glorified in each other in the diversified state until the Kingdom is delivered up,1 Corinthians 15:24.

So the three depensation,
“I AM”, Father, ordinal “FIRST”, LORD. This is why he said in Isaiah 44:6 that he is the FIRST and the LAST. "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." me here, is a single designation of two of the same one person. we see clearly the ordinal “FIRST”, and the ordinal “LAST” as "I AM"

“THAT”, Son ordinal “LAST”. 1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
This is why John 1:1 is such a diversified scripture, notice the “WITH” there. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Now watch the ordinal “First”, LORD/Father … WITH ….. the ordinal “LAST”, Lord/Son. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." there is the “WITH”. and if one think that “WITH” indicate a second separate person, listen up. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.". “also indicate the “SAME” one person. So in John 1:1 when he said at the end, “ and the Word was God”, John was not lying. It’s the same one person. so what have confused christian over the many years is God's Depensation in his creation. and the lack of knowledge in understanding his ordinal "FIRST", and his ordinal "LAST".

So there is no doubt that Jesus is the FIRST and the LAST, in Hebrew, it is the … understand this, the ordinal “Aleph”… FIRST. And he is the ordinal “Tav”, LAST. Oh how easy it is to nunderstand the Godhead from God prospective…..

one more, the “I AM THAT I AM” is expressed in Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;"
both which "IS", are Spirit desiginations, and which "WAS", as in John1:1b is natural flesh as Isaiah said the child "THAT" was Born. Which is .. “I AM” … which was … THAT” in natural flesh, and which is to come… “I AM.
Same person, same one God, ordinal FIRST, and ordinal LAST. scripture, Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." AMEN

ONE CANNOT GET ANY PLAINER THAN THAT.

PICJAG.

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Not, God WAS Christ....

 

[101G]

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Not, God WAS Christ....

2 Timothy 3:7

PICJAG.

 

[tigger 2]

Before Jesus was born, the Angel Gabriel declared:

“He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;" Luke 1:32

And Isaiah declared:

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore." Isaiah 9:6

Scripture is crystal clear that Jesus is: The Son of the Most High, Mighty God, Eternal Father.

Is. 9:6 is usually translated in trinitarian-translated Bibles as:

“For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” - NASB.

Even most trinitarians do not confuse the two separate persons of the Father and the Son. They do not say the Son is the Father. They say the Father and the Son are two separate individual persons who are equally “God”!

Therefore, since we obviously cannot take “Eternal Father” in the literal sense to mean that Jesus is the Father or may be called the Father, we cannot take the rest of that same name (esp. ‘Mighty God’) in its literal highest sense and say that Jesus is Mighty God, etc., either.

So what is really intended at Is. 9:6?

One interesting fact is that the meaning of many personal names of Israelites were meant as a praise or description of God alone - not a description of themselves.

“JEHU - ‘Jehovah is he.’


(1.) The son of Obed, and father of Azariah (1 Chronicles 2:38).

(2.) One of the Benjamite slingers that joined David at Ziklag (1 Chronicles 12:3).

(3.) The son of Hanani, a prophet of Judah (1 Kings 16:1, 7; 2 Chronicles 19:2; 20:34), who pronounced the sentence of God against Baasha, the king of Israel.

(4.) King of Israel, the son of Jehoshaphat (2 Kings 9:2), and grandson of Nimshi.” - Easton’s Bible Dictionary, ‘Jehu,’ from Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Thomas Nelson Publ. (Also p. 331, Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, Bethany House, 1982.)

So four different men, worshipers of the one true God, Jehovah, were named ‘He is Jehovah’ in the Holy Scriptures! This popular Israelite name obviously was not intended to describe the person who bore it!

“Now Malchiel means ‘God is king,’ ... Gedaliah ‘Jehovah is great,’ Zerahiah ‘Jehovah hath risen in splendor,’ Jehozadak ‘Jehovah is righteous,’ and Joel, if a compound name, ‘Jehovah is God.’ A moment’s reflection makes clear that these names do not describe the persons who bear them, but in every case speak of God. ....

"[Early in the 9th century B.C.] .... it was conventional for the king of Judah to have for his name a sentence with Jehovah as its subject. .... During the five centuries and a half, beginning near the close of Solomon’s reign and extending to the end of Nehemiah’s administration, 22 high priests held office, so far as their names have been preserved in the records. Of these pontiffs 17 bear names which are sentences with Jehovah as subject, and another is a sentence with El [God] as subject. .... evidently the priests of Jehovah’s temple at Jerusalem not only recognized the appropriateness for themselves and their families of names possessing a general religious character, but came to favor such as expressly mentioned God, especially those which mentioned God by His name of Jehovah.” - p. 2115, Vol. 3, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Eerdmans, 1984 printing.



Another important detail about personal names is that those names composed of more than one Hebrew word (e.g., Immanuel; Isaiah; Michael; Jehoshabeath; etc.) is that minor words such as prepositions ('of',' 'in,' 'with', 'on,' etc.) and some verbs such as 'is,' 'are,' etc. are omitted in the scriptures.

For instance, two of the best-known Bible concordances (Young’s and Strong’s) and a popular trinitarian Bible dictionary (Today’s Dictionary of the Bible) differ on the exact meaning of many Biblical personal names because of those “minor” words which must be added to bring out the intended meaning.

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, for example, says the name “Elimelech” (which is literally just “God King”) means “God of (the) King.” Young’s Analytical Concordance says it means “God is King.” Today’s Dictionary of the Bible says it means “ God his King” - p. 206, Bethany House Publ., 1982. And an online meaning is given as “My God is the King.” - http://www.kveller.com/jewish_names/display.php?n=Elimelech&k=840 .


I haven’t found any scholar/translator who says the name of Elimelech should be translated with its literal meaning of “God King.” And no scholar ever claims that it means that Elimelech himself was "God King."

Those missing minor words that the translator must supply at his own discretion can often make a vital difference! - For example, the footnote for Gen. 17:5 in The NIV Study Bible: The name ‘Abram’ “means ‘Exalted Father,’ probably in reference to God (i.e., ‘[God is the] Exalted Father’).” - bracketed information is in the original.

But perhaps most instructive of all is the compound name given to the prophet’s child in Isaiah 8:3 shortly before his giving the name found in Is. 9:6.

Is. 8:3

Maher-shalal-hash-baz: Literally, “spoil speeds prey hastes” or “swift booty speedy prey.” Translated by various Bible scholars as: “In making speed to the spoil he hasteneth the prey” - - “swift [is] booty, speedy [is] prey” - - “the spoil speeded, the prey hasteth” - - “Speeding for spoil, hastening for plunder” - - “There will soon be looting and stealing”- - “Speeding is the spoil, Hastening is the prey” - - “The Looting Will Come Quickly; the Prey Will Be Easy” - - “Take sway the spoils with speed, quickly take the prey” - - “Swift is the booty, speedy is the prey” - - “Swift the Spoils of War and Speedy Comes the Attacker” - - “Make haste to plunder! Hurry to the spoil!” - - “Make haste to the spoil; fall upon the prey.” - - “Your enemies will soon be destroyed.’” - TLB. - - “They hurry to get what they can. They run to pick up what is left.” - NLV.

And trinitarian John Gill wrote:

“‘hasten to seize the prey, and to take away the spoil.’ Some translate it, ‘in hastening the prey, the spoiler hastens’; perhaps it may be better rendered, ‘hasten to the spoil, hasten to the prey.’”

Therefore, the personal name at Is. 9:6 has been honestly translated in the footnote as:

“And his name is called: Wonderful in counsel IS God the Mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace” - The Holy Scriptures, JPS Version (Margolis, ed.)

to show that it is intended to praise the God of the Messiah who performs great things through the Messiah.

The Leeser Bible also translates it:

“Wonderful, counsellor of the mighty God, of the everlasting Father, the prince of peace”

Also, An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith & Goodspeed) says:

“Wonderful Counselor IS God Almighty, Father forever, Prince of Peace.”

From the Is. 9:6 footnote in the trinity-supporting NET Bible:

".... some have suggested that one to three of the titles that follow ['called'] refer to God, not the king. For example, the traditional punctuation of the Hebrew text suggests the translation, 'and the Extraordinary Strategist, the Mighty God calls his name, "Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."'"

Of course it could also be honestly translated:

“The Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God Is the Eternal Father of the Prince of Peace.”

And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:

[1] “The Mighty God is planning grace;

[2] The Eternal Father [is] a peaceable ruler.”

So it is clear, even to a few trinitarian scholars, that Is. 9:6 does not necessarily imply that Jesus is Jehovah God. Is. 9:6 is not a trinity 'proof.' It is interpreted by those who want it to be a proof and who won't admit that there are other interpretations more in line with actual Hebrew usage.

 

[Truther]

2 Timothy 3:7

PICJAG.

That's what I mean.

God was INSIDE Christ...

Learn it.

 

[Truther]

Is. 9:6 is usually translated in trinitarian-translated Bibles as:

“For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” - NASB.

Even most trinitarians do not confuse the two separate persons of the Father and the Son. They do not say the Son is the Father. They say the Father and the Son are two separate individual persons who are equally “God”!

Therefore, since we obviously cannot take “Eternal Father” in the literal sense to mean that Jesus is the Father or may be called the Father, we cannot take the rest of that same name (esp. ‘Mighty God’) in its literal highest sense and say that Jesus is Mighty God, etc., either.

So what is really intended at Is. 9:6?

One interesting fact is that the meaning of many personal names of Israelites were meant as a praise or description of God alone - not a description of themselves.

“JEHU - ‘Jehovah is he.’


(1.) The son of Obed, and father of Azariah (1 Chronicles 2:38).

(2.) One of the Benjamite slingers that joined David at Ziklag (1 Chronicles 12:3).

(3.) The son of Hanani, a prophet of Judah (1 Kings 16:1, 7; 2 Chronicles 19:2; 20:34), who pronounced the sentence of God against Baasha, the king of Israel.

(4.) King of Israel, the son of Jehoshaphat (2 Kings 9:2), and grandson of Nimshi.” - Easton’s Bible Dictionary, ‘Jehu,’ from Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Thomas Nelson Publ. (Also p. 331, Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, Bethany House, 1982.)

So four different men, worshipers of the one true God, Jehovah, were named ‘He is Jehovah’ in the Holy Scriptures! This popular Israelite name obviously was not intended to describe the person who bore it!

“Now Malchiel means ‘God is king,’ ... Gedaliah ‘Jehovah is great,’ Zerahiah ‘Jehovah hath risen in splendor,’ Jehozadak ‘Jehovah is righteous,’ and Joel, if a compound name, ‘Jehovah is God.’ A moment’s reflection makes clear that these names do not describe the persons who bear them, but in every case speak of God. ....

"[Early in the 9th century B.C.] .... it was conventional for the king of Judah to have for his name a sentence with Jehovah as its subject. .... During the five centuries and a half, beginning near the close of Solomon’s reign and extending to the end of Nehemiah’s administration, 22 high priests held office, so far as their names have been preserved in the records. Of these pontiffs 17 bear names which are sentences with Jehovah as subject, and another is a sentence with El [God] as subject. .... evidently the priests of Jehovah’s temple at Jerusalem not only recognized the appropriateness for themselves and their families of names possessing a general religious character, but came to favor such as expressly mentioned God, especially those which mentioned God by His name of Jehovah.” - p. 2115, Vol. 3, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Eerdmans, 1984 printing.



Another important detail about personal names is that those names composed of more than one Hebrew word (e.g., Immanuel; Isaiah; Michael; Jehoshabeath; etc.) is that minor words such as prepositions ('of',' 'in,' 'with', 'on,' etc.) and some verbs such as 'is,' 'are,' etc. are omitted in the scriptures.

For instance, two of the best-known Bible concordances (Young’s and Strong’s) and a popular trinitarian Bible dictionary (Today’s Dictionary of the Bible) differ on the exact meaning of many Biblical personal names because of those “minor” words which must be added to bring out the intended meaning.

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, for example, says the name “Elimelech” (which is literally just “God King”) means “God of (the) King.” Young’s Analytical Concordance says it means “God is King.” Today’s Dictionary of the Bible says it means “ God his King” - p. 206, Bethany House Publ., 1982. And an online meaning is given as “My God is the King.” - http://www.kveller.com/jewish_names/display.php?n=Elimelech&k=840 .


I haven’t found any scholar/translator who says the name of Elimelech should be translated with its literal meaning of “God King.” And no scholar ever claims that it means that Elimelech himself was "God King."

Those missing minor words that the translator must supply at his own discretion can often make a vital difference! - For example, the footnote for Gen. 17:5 in The NIV Study Bible: The name ‘Abram’ “means ‘Exalted Father,’ probably in reference to God (i.e., ‘[God is the] Exalted Father’).” - bracketed information is in the original.

But perhaps most instructive of all is the compound name given to the prophet’s child in Isaiah 8:3 shortly before his giving the name found in Is. 9:6.

Is. 8:3

Maher-shalal-hash-baz: Literally, “spoil speeds prey hastes” or “swift booty speedy prey.” Translated by various Bible scholars as: “In making speed to the spoil he hasteneth the prey” - - “swift [is] booty, speedy [is] prey” - - “the spoil speeded, the prey hasteth” - - “Speeding for spoil, hastening for plunder” - - “There will soon be looting and stealing”- - “Speeding is the spoil, Hastening is the prey” - - “The Looting Will Come Quickly; the Prey Will Be Easy” - - “Take sway the spoils with speed, quickly take the prey” - - “Swift is the booty, speedy is the prey” - - “Swift the Spoils of War and Speedy Comes the Attacker” - - “Make haste to plunder! Hurry to the spoil!” - - “Make haste to the spoil; fall upon the prey.” - - “Your enemies will soon be destroyed.’” - TLB. - - “They hurry to get what they can. They run to pick up what is left.” - NLV.

And trinitarian John Gill wrote:

“‘hasten to seize the prey, and to take away the spoil.’ Some translate it, ‘in hastening the prey, the spoiler hastens’; perhaps it may be better rendered, ‘hasten to the spoil, hasten to the prey.’”

Therefore, the personal name at Is. 9:6 has been honestly translated in the footnote as:

“And his name is called: Wonderful in counsel IS God the Mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace” - The Holy Scriptures, JPS Version (Margolis, ed.)

to show that it is intended to praise the God of the Messiah who performs great things through the Messiah.

The Leeser Bible also translates it:

“Wonderful, counsellor of the mighty God, of the everlasting Father, the prince of peace”

Also, An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith & Goodspeed) says:

“Wonderful Counselor IS God Almighty, Father forever, Prince of Peace.”

From the Is. 9:6 footnote in the trinity-supporting NET Bible:

".... some have suggested that one to three of the titles that follow ['called'] refer to God, not the king. For example, the traditional punctuation of the Hebrew text suggests the translation, 'and the Extraordinary Strategist, the Mighty God calls his name, "Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."'"

Of course it could also be honestly translated:

“The Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God Is the Eternal Father of the Prince of Peace.”

And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:

[1] “The Mighty God is planning grace;

[2] The Eternal Father [is] a peaceable ruler.”

So it is clear, even to a few trinitarian scholars, that Is. 9:6 does not necessarily imply that Jesus is Jehovah God. Is. 9:6 is not a trinity 'proof.' It is interpreted by those who want it to be a proof and who won't admit that there are other interpretations more in line with actual Hebrew usage.

Notice the 2 tenses in Isaiah 9:6.

The baby/son shall be called...

This happened per the Col 2:9 effect on the son's body after his God resurrected him from the dead.

This made the baby, the everlasting Father.


The son was made the Father etc., by default.

 

[Stan B]

Is. 9:6 is usually translated in trinitarian-translated Bibles as:

“For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” - NASB.

Even most trinitarians do not confuse the two separate persons of the Father and the Son. They do not say the Son is the Father. They say the Father and the Son are two separate individual persons who are equally “God”!

I don't know anything about trinitarians who do not say the Son is the Father. I just go by what Jesus said: "I and the Father are one.” John 10:30.

That says everything I need to know about the unified being of the Father and the Son.