Did people receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues? Or did they speak in tongues ....?

[Dave L]

I doubt you were ever a Charismatic. Unfortunately, your reasoning has thrown you way off course in the land of no covenant.

I was dyed in the wool Charismatic and thought all believers except Charismatics were in the dark. And with my superior knowledge even taught people how to "speak in tongues". But.................

 

[amadeus]

The problem is, head belief is not faith. So we must come to believe from scripture alone, the only source of faith. If we begin with what a denomination might say, we still do not have faith unless we know it passes the test of scripture. And many times it does not.

The primary difference between us at this point may be a serious one. You speak of the scriptures alone as the Word of God, while I speak of the scriptures alone as a dead carcass requiring the quickening of them within us by the Holy Spirit.

 

[CoreIssue]

The primary difference between us at this point may be a serious one. You speak of the scriptures alone as the Word of God, while I speak of the scriptures alone as a dead carcass requiring the quickening of them within us by the Holy Spirit.

We are commanded to test things against the Scripture. We are commanded to study the Scripture.

The Holy Spirit aids us in the study but never contradicts the written word.

 

[amadeus]

Truth = Jesus, that really matters.

Yes, but many people can, and do, say that Jesus is Truth without understanding well, or even at all, exactly who and what Jesus is.

 

[amadeus]

We are commanded to test things against the Scripture. We are commanded to study the Scripture.

The Holy Spirit aids us in the study but never contradicts the written word.

Are really disagreeing? If the carcass is simply the flesh of Jesus to be eaten, and the Holy Spirit is the blood of Jesus to be drunk what would the end result be?

"Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6

The letter as I see it is the dead flesh of Jesus, or the unread or unquickened scriptures. Then comes the quickening Spirit bringing them to Life within a person as per Jesus words:

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53

 

[CoreIssue]

Are really disagreeing? If the carcass is simply the flesh of Jesus to be eaten, and the Holy Spirit is the blood of Jesus to be drunk what would the end result be?

"Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6

The letter as I see it is the dead flesh of Jesus, or the unread or unquickened scriptures. Then comes the quickening Spirit bringing them to Life within a person as per Jesus words:

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53

I was making a general comment about the relationship of the Bible and the Holy Spirit. Nothing more.

His body was a humanity the second person of the Trinity indwelt. His blood life he shed.

The Lord's table is symbolically sharing in his death and in his life. In death our sins are buried and in life we resurrect glorified.

As the Holy Spirit brought resurrection and life to Christ so does he bring spiritual life to the Scriptures.

But. That does not change the fact we are commanded to study the Bible.

Nor does it change the fact when the unsaved read the Bible the Holy Spirit speaks to them as well and aids in their growth and understanding. Which will result in their acceptance or rejection of Jesus.

The Bible Holy Spirit are not just for the already born again.

The bread and wine are not his literal body and blood.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I was dyed in the wool Charismatic and thought all believers except Charismatics were in the dark. And with my superior knowledge even taught people how to "speak in tongues". But.................

Going into a Catholic church doesn't make you a priest, or even an alter boy. It seems you were like I was for the first 6 years of knowing about the Spirit, just that you never got past only knowing about, to actually being filled and experiencing the awesome power. If you did, you wouldn't teach someone how to speak in tongues, unless you are just teaching how to fake tongues. Anyone can do that. Someone who teaches the fake, thinks everything is fake.

 

[CoreIssue]

Going into a Catholic church doesn't make you a priest, or even an alter boy. It seems you were like I was for the first 6 years of knowing about the Spirit, just that you never got past knowing about, to actually being filled and experiencing the awesome power. If you did, you wouldn't teach someone how to speak in tongues, unless you are just teaching how to fake tongues. Anyone can do that. Someone who teaches the fake, thing everything is fake.

In the small town I grew up near there was a Catholic school.

Like others who grew up near Catholic schools, the girls were the wildest girls around.

Plus the priests and nuns had reputations as well.

Fact is a gift is given by the Holy Spirit. It cannot be taught.

The more exotic and flamboyant the claims of some religions and denominations, the more frauds and deceived there are.

They all want a piece of the pie.

 

[Dave L]

Going into a Catholic church doesn't make you a priest, or even an alter boy. It seems you were like I was for the first 6 years of knowing about the Spirit, just that you never got past only knowing about, to actually being filled and experiencing the awesome power. If you did, you wouldn't teach someone how to speak in tongues, unless you are just teaching how to fake tongues. Anyone can do that. Someone who teaches the fake, thinks everything is fake.

I fully believed having been taught only that view. Which I believe is the case with most Charismatics.

 

[Dave L]

Yes, but many people can, and do, say that Jesus is Truth without understanding well, or even at all, exactly who and what Jesus is.

To deny scripture truth = denying Jesus.

 

[Dave L]

The primary difference between us at this point may be a serious one. You speak of the scriptures alone as the Word of God, while I speak of the scriptures alone as a dead carcass requiring the quickening of them within us by the Holy Spirit.

Scripture alone but not understandable unless Born Again.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I fully believed having been taught only that view. Which I believe is the case with most Charismatics.

I don't know what you were taught. Were you Pentecostal or just Charismatic, like a Baptist Charismatic? I am not a denominationalist, and believe all of our New Covenant. That is where we differ.

 

[CoreIssue]

I don't know what you were taught. Were you Pentecostal or just Charismatic, like a Baptist Charismatic? I am not a denominationalist, and believe all of our New Covenant. That is where we differ.

Question. The blood covenant given by Christ at the Last Supper or what many claim, being the future new covenant to the houses of Judah and Israel?

 

[Dave L]

I don't know what you were taught. Were you Pentecostal or just Charismatic, like a Baptist Charismatic? I am not a denominationalist, and believe all of our New Covenant. That is where we differ.

I began AOG then went independent charismatic.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I began AOG then went independent charismatic.

I left the AOG church for teaching some of the heresies I am against. There is a big difference in knowing ABOUT truth, and POSSESSING truth.

 

[Dave L]

I left the AOG church for teaching some of the heresies I am against. There is a big difference in knowing ABOUT truth, and POSSESSING truth.

I professed their doctrine having not heard any alternative views. People live and die doing this, never questioning where their beliefs came from.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I professed their doctrine having not heard any alternative views. People live and die doing this, never questioning where their beliefs came from.

And that proves what?

 

[Helen]

Again, you don't understand our New Covenant. Nothing in it ends until the covenant itself ends. That is Scripture. But you go along and join your Cessationist friends, and let the blind lead the blind.

.... Well said.

 

[Dave L]

And that proves what?

That I have experience behind my claims.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That I have experience behind my claims.

Based on what? Did you actually speak in tongues, or were you doing what you were teaching others to do - fake it, till you make it.