Did people receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues? Or did they speak in tongues ....?

[Dave L]

No, because you have no idea of covenant law, you think it can be broken. When you show that ignorance, nothing you say is credible like:

- tongues was for writing scripture.
- tongues ceased in the middle of the covenant when the scriptures were published.
- tongues could be understood by the speaker.

Nothing holds up to the test of scripture when claiming tongues are for today.

 

[amadeus]

Scripture (God) does not agree with present day tongues claims. We need to evaluate experience by scripture, not scripture by experience.

I won't go through this again. I believe we already went through the scriptures on this subject before, you and I. I do believe the scriptures support my view, but I know other people, including yourself, obtain a different result from the same scriptures.

 

[Dave L]

I won't go through this again. I believe we already went through the scriptures on this subject before, you and I. I do believe the scriptures support my view, but I know other people, including yourself, obtain a different result from the same scriptures.

I believe if you tried to prove your position from scripture, it would cast doubt on many of today's popular charismatic beliefs.

 

[amadeus]

I used to say the same. But scripture proved me wrong.

What I have read in scriptures and what God has shown me have changed me many times over the years... One thing I have most definitely changed: I try to avoid saying that I cannot be wrong. God has made me see my own errors too many times.

 

[amadeus]

I believe if you tried to prove your position from scripture, it would cast doubt on many of today's popular charismatic beliefs.

I disagree with some, or even many, of those beliefs, but I do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Like you I disagree with much of what many organized supposedly Christian denominations do routinely, but I also know that even among them, there are some few who really do love God and strive to follow Him in spite of the errors of some of their companions in the pews. I have posted my views here and on other forums many times on these things over the years. When I was allowed I also taught them to flesh and blood people in the pews. Not many places would let me teach like that though... Some of them it is very arbitrary since they have no idea what I would teach. God opens doors for me when He sees the need.

 

[Dave L]

I disagree with some, or even many, of those beliefs, but I do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Like you I disagree with much of what many organized supposedly Christian denominations do routinely, but I also know that even among them, there are some few who really do love God and strive to follow Him in spite of the errors of some of their companions in the pews. I have posted my views here and on other forums many times on these things over the years. When I was allowed I also taught them to flesh and blood people in the pews. Not many places would let me teach like that though... Some of them it is very arbitrary since they have no idea what I would teach. God opens doors for me when He sees the need.

It's like I say. I've learned from Christendom and not any church in particular. But denominations are built around the errors that divide them from the rest of the Church.

 

[Dave L]

What I have read in scriptures and what God has shown me have changed me many times over the years... One thing I have most definitely changed: I try to avoid saying that I cannot be wrong. God has made me see my own errors too many times.

This is true. But in pursuit of the truth, we should be willing to question our beliefs and either prove them from scripture or let them go. Jesus = truth.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Nothing holds up to the test of scripture when claiming tongues are for today.

Again, you don't understand our New Covenant. Nothing in it ends until the covenant itself ends. That is Scripture. But you go along and join your Cessationist friends, and let the blind lead the blind.

 

[amadeus]

It's like I say. I've learned from Christendom and not any church in particular. But denominations are built around the errors that divide them from the rest of the Church.

"Christendom undoubtedly has many good things to teach, but I believe that without a God connection, a direct line to Him as well, it could or would all be in vain.

 

[amadeus]

This is true. But in pursuit of the truth, we should be willing to question our beliefs and either prove them from scripture or let them go. Jesus = truth.

I question my own beliefs daily in my prayers and in my reading and/or studying of the scriptures. But until I have been shown the need by God [He works through people too]to change, I stand where I do.
Give God the glory!

 

[Dave L]

Again, you don't understand our New Covenant. Nothing in it ends until the covenant itself ends. That is Scripture. But you go along and join your Cessationist friends, and let the blind lead the blind.

God wrote the New Covenant scriptures through tongues and prophecy. They were tho only New Covenant word we had. The only other scripture was the Old Covenant. When they collected and compiled all of the fragments of truth provided by the revelatory gifts, the scriptures gave the complete (perfect) New Covenant revelation. Today's tongues are nothing like the originals. They relieve stress but they don't write scripture.

 

[Dave L]

"Christendom undoubtedly has many good things to teach, but I believe that without a God connection, a direct line to Him as well, it could or would all be in vain.

We all have the Holy Spirit and he opens our understanding of the scriptures. This is why I take from the denominations what I can justify from scripture. And leave the rest lay. I was also AOG for several years but some things they taught didn't pass the test of Scripture.

 

[Dave L]

I question my own beliefs daily in my prayers and in my reading and/or studying of the scriptures. But until I have been shown the need by God [He works through people too]to change, I stand where I do.
Give God the glory!

Sometimes we do not know what we need until we challenge our beliefs and try to prove them from scripture.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

God wrote the New Covenant scriptures through tongues and prophecy. They were tho only New Covenant word we had. The only other scripture was the Old Covenant. When they collected and compiled all of the fragments of truth provided by the revelatory gifts, the scriptures gave the complete (perfect) New Covenant revelation. Today's tongues are nothing like the originals. They relieve stress but they don't write scripture.

ROFL Another erroneous conclusion. You are like a plane without a navigation system who flies completely off course. You base one false premise onto another false premise and think you are going toward the land of truth, instead of into the depths of the ocean.

We have no common ground as a foundation for future conversation on this. You don't believe and keep the scriptures, only your version of the scriptures you've shot through full of holes.

 

[amadeus]

We all have the Holy Spirit and he opens our understanding of the scriptures. This is why I take from the denominations what I can justify from scripture. And leave the rest lay. I was also AOG for several years but some things they taught didn't pass the test of Scripture.

I may not agree specifically with each idea, but the general idea is good. Let God sort out our differences when it is necessary.

 

[Dave L]

ROFL Another erroneous conclusion. You are like a plane without a navigation system who flies completely off course. You base one false premise onto another false premise and think you are going toward the land of truth, instead of into the depths of the ocean.

We have no common ground as a foundation for future conversation on this. You don't believe and keep the scriptures, only your version of the scriptures you've shot through full of holes.

I used to think just like you. But scripture changed my mind after a few things didn't add up in our charismatic beliefs.

 

[amadeus]

Sometimes we do not know what we need until we challenge our beliefs and try to prove them from scripture.

Many times, we do not know what we need, but without the help of the Holy Spirit we would be unable to prove a thing that really mattered to God.

 

[Dave L]

I may not agree specifically with each idea, but the general idea is good. Let God sort out our differences when it is necessary.

The problem is, head belief is not faith. So we must come to believe from scripture alone, the only source of faith. If we begin with what a denomination might say, we still do not have faith unless we know it passes the test of scripture. And many times it does not.

 

[Dave L]

Many times, we do not know what we need, but without the help of the Holy Spirit we would be unable to prove a thing that really mattered to God.

Truth = Jesus, that really matters.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I used to think just like you. But scripture changed my mind after a few things didn't add up in our charismatic beliefs.

I doubt you were ever a Charismatic. Unfortunately, your reasoning has thrown you way off course in the land of no covenant.