Did the ancient Pagan Religions get picked up as 'tradition'?

[BreadOfLife]

Facts speak for themselves....

So does BS.
You should try to stick to facts instead . . .

 

[Hobie]

Well, lets go over more so we can all see the truth of the matter..
Here are a few of the pagan gods and how they were renamed to let their worship continue:

"Demeter is a goddess of many festivals but most important, the Thesmophoria, which fell in late October. She became St. Demetrios, a masculine warrior saint, whose fd. is 10/26.

Aphrodite became St. Aphrodite, of which there are several, all with saints' tales that tell how she became a "repentant whore."

Nike was picked up as Saint Nicholas, who was extremely popular wherever shipping was important. He is the patron saint of Russian, Holland and Germany, all on the north sea coast.

The Roman god Mars was originally a god who guarded wheat fields. He became St. Martin (esp. St. Martin-in-the-fields). Although March is the month associated with Mars (it was the beginning of the military campaigning season in Roman times), the major festival for him in Christian times now usually falls in February, called Mardi Gras "Great Mars."

The Roman god Quirinus became St. Cyrinus, of which there are various "equestrian warrior saints" such as St. Cyr in France, and St. Quirina, mother of St. Lawrence. The element quir- means (or was understood to mean) `horse.' These saints were very popular and widely worshiped in the Middle-Ages, in France, Holland and also eastern Christian countries.

The Roman gods known as the Lares became St. Lawrence, esp. St. Lawrence beyond-the-wall. The Lares were field gods who protected the grain growing in the fields. In Italian, he became St. Lorenzo beyond the Walls, meaning outside of the walls of the city, for which there is still a church in Rome, with many "daughter" churches which developed from it.

The Roman goddess Venus became St. Venera (with a feminized ending to her name since -us looks like a masculine ending in Latin). She had a major church in Rome in early Christian times, but that didn't last long.

The Roman gods known as the Gemini, who were protectors of sailors in Roman pagan times, became the Sanctos Geminos, with a number of forms in the various Christian religions. Santiago de Compostela, (St. James in English) became the protector of pilgrims during the Middle Ages. Forms of St. James all seem to be christianized from various forms of the Proto-Indo-European god *Yama. This god was repeatedly christianized in most of the Indo-European language groups.

The ancient Romans worshiped gods and goddesses involved with every aspect of life. Jupiter, the chief of the gods, was the god of rain and storms, while his wife, Juno, was the goddess of womanhood. Minerva was the goddess of handicrafts and wisdom; Venus, of sexual love and birth; Vesta, of the hearth and sacred fires; Ceres, of farming and harvests.

The Greeks considered Mercury, whom they called Hermes, to be the messenger of the gods, but the Romans worshiped him as the god of trade, with businesspeople celebrating his feast day to increase profits. And there were other popular deities: Mars, god of war; Castor and Pollux, gods of sea travelers; Cronos, the guardian of time; and of course Cupid, god of love, whose magic arrows caused both human beings and immortals to fall in love."..Pagan Saints

 

[DNB]

Looking into the history of the rites of the ancient pagan religion in Rome, the rites were performed and controlled by a number of different priestly collegia and other special priests and magistrates. The priestly organizations that ranked below the collegia were known as sodalicia, and there were many "independent" priests of various cults who bore the title sacerdos. There were pagan beliefs that came in and were picked up and developed a priesthood and became strong in Rome such as the such as the Mysteries of Mithras or worship originating from ancient Babylon.


CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Discipline of the Secret (Catholic Encyclopedia), Discipline of the Secret (Latin Disciplina Arcani ):

There are many other "unwritten mysteries of the Church," says St. Basilc. 66 and 67). They are not mentioned in the Scripture. But they are of great authority and significance. They are indispensable for the preservation of right faith. They are effective means of witness and communication. According to St. Basil, they come from a "silent" and "private" tradition: [From the silent and mystical tradition, from the unpublic and ineffable teaching]. This "silent" and "mystical" tradition, "which has not been made public," is not an esoteric doctrine, reserved for some particular elite. The "elite" was the Church. In fact, "tradition" to which St. Basil appeals, is the liturgical practice of the Church. St. Basil is referring here to what is now denoted as disciplina arcani [The discipline of secrecy].

These 'traditions' of the church of Rome can easily be traced to the source. The Collegium Pontificum in Rome came from ancient pagan religion in Babylon and was the priests who served the public rites of the State religion and contoled both the public rites and the priesthoods themselves. Its leader was the Pontifex Maximus (Greatest Pontiff) who acted as the speaker for the Collegium Pontificum, and oversaw the various priesthoods and the Comitia Curiata and the Vestals. The Flamines were the priest orders that served specific deities such as the Flamen Dialis (priests of Jupiter), the Flamen Martialis (priests of Mars) among the many orders.

Yes, they did, in one form or another, syncretism has infiltrated the Church. I am not well versed on Pagan religions or practices, but anyone with a cursory understanding of Church history, will surely appreciate the potential, and actuality, of such a corruption. But, my thesis is not based solely on Pagan or other Religion's influences, but any anti or extra Biblical sources.
And I am sorry to any Catholics or Orthodox members out there, but I will assert that the office of the Papacy, and the principles of either the, Vicar of Christ, infallibility or ex-cathedra, that are inextricably associated with the office, are categorically, institutions that are not of Christ.
And we can go on with any form of Mariology, intercession of the saints, purgatory, indulgences, Bible restrictions (Latin or Church issued only), inquisitions, treatment of 'heretics', tradition, faith & works...

Not one of the principles or doctrines that I cited, have a justifiable Biblical foundation.

 

[Base12]

Vesta, of the hearth and sacred fires...

For those that haven't been briefed by their Church as to what Vesta means Biblically...

Vesta is Tophet and the Eternal Fire that burns in the Brazen Altar.

Both are a picture of the Lake of Fire...

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
"For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it"

Thus, the real meaning of the Lake of Fire is...

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few, and were limited to tales of miraculous impregnation by a phallus appearing in the flames of the hearth—the manifestation of the goddess"

Vesta (mythology) - Wikipedia

...a Woman getting pregnant.

Gehenna = Born Again of Corruptible Flesh. <-- What Satan does not want Christians to know!

Ahem...

Matthew 23:15 (Berean Literal Bible)
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you traverse the sea and the dry land to make one convert, and whenever it may happen, you make him twofold more a son of Gehenna than yourselves"

^^^
It's literal.

 

[Philip James]

When the zealots of the primitave Christian Church sought to Christianize paganism, the pagan initiates retorted with a powerful effort to paganize Christianity. The Christians failed but the pagans succeeded

Hello Hobie,

Capture every thought for Christ

This comment here is exactly backwards. The Church 'christianized' pagan Rome, as she does to every new culture that embraces the Gospel.
She takes disordered devotions and worship and reorients them to the proper object of our worship, the Creator.

A simple illustration to demonstrate:

A man gets up every morning and faces east, prostrating himself and worshipping the rising sun.
Some time later, he hears the Gospel and is baptised into Christ. No longer worshippong the sun but the true Sun of Righteousness, Christ Himself, he gets up every morning, prostrates himself and worships God as the sun rises....
Note here, his outward devotion has the same appearance, but his inward disposition has been reoriented, now worshipping the Creator rather than that which has been created.

His neighbour, seeing no difference in his morning devotion, judges him to be still a sun worshipper. Such judgement is erroneous, and based on appearances rather than the heart.

Of course not all cultural practices can be compatible with the Gospel (sacrificing children as a most egregious example) and these cannot be reoriented but must be discarded.

Just so, judging devotionial practices as pagan, because pagans did such things, is judging by appearances and not by the object of said devotions.

Peace be with you!

 

[Base12]

The Greeks considered Mercury, whom they called Hermes, to be the messenger of the gods...

Acts 14:12
"And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker"

 

[Base12]

...Isis were gathered together in the worship of Mary...

 

[Base12]

1 Samuel 5:4
"And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the LORD; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him"

 

[Base12]

...Venus, of sexual love and birth...

Isaiah 14:12
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

 

[Yehren]

Bizarre conspiracy theories are almost always false. Just saying.

 

[marks]

Because they gave them up during Lent - and now they were able to eat them again. Red was the Liturgical color of the Easter Season/Holy Spirit/Pentecost.
It would be weird to color the milk red, I guess . . .

I never knew where coloring eggs came from. Thanks!

 

[BreadOfLife]

1 Samuel 5:4
"And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the LORD; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him"

First of all - the Bishop’s miter didn’t develop into its present form until the late Middle Ages – which is LONG after all of the “Dagon worshippers” were all dead and gone. Before that, it was a shorter version.

Dagon worshippers also forbade the eating of fish, which is something the Catholic Church has NEVER done. In fact, we’ve been accused by you anti-Catholics for eating TOO MUCH fish during Lent and that the Church had a financial interest in the fish industry. Another asinine and unsubstantiated charge . . .

Your confusion stems from the fact that you are ignorant of the customs and practices of Early Christianity.

Next time you’re driving on the freeway, pay attention to some of the cars with the Christian “Fish” symbol on the back. This symbol is an ancient CHRISTIAN symbol for Christ called. “ICHTHUS”. The letters inside the fish are the Greek letters which are the initials of the words I (ēsous) Ch (ristos) th (eou) hy(ios) s (ōtēr) meaning “Jesus Christ Son of God Savior”.

The fact that some ancient pagan culture did something first doesn’t mean that it was “adopted” by a later culture. They just happen to use the same symbol for different things.

Case in point – the Protestant “altar call”. An altar is a place of sacrifice – and Protestants reject the idea of sacrificing anything to God on an altar. Are they “adopting” Catholic doctrine – or does it have a different meaning??

Another example is the wedding ring, which has roots in paganism. Were YOU parttaking in “pagan worship” when you slipped a ring on your wife’s finger??

So, the next time you feel the need to post something as unfounded as this ridiculous charge – do your homework, Einstein . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Overdosing on a little too much Jack Chick, I see.

Do your homework . . .

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I see you've been reading Alexander Hislop's nonsense probably via some Jack Chick tracts.
A Christian SHOULD be able to smell this kind of manure a mile away. Shame that YOU can't.

For one thing - this idiocy about Easter eggs being pf "pagan" origin.
Time for a Church history lesson . . .

Not sure if you're familiar with the Church season of Lent - but it's a time of self-denial, prayer, fasting and sacrifice. In the ancient Church - they didn't just give up meat on Fridays as an act of mortification of the flesh and as a means of drawing closer to God (Romans 8:13, Col. 3:5, Gal. 5:24). They actually went without ALL dairy products including milk, cheese and EGGS. This is why the practice of making pancakes the night before Ash Wednesday (Shrove Tuesday) became a tradition - because they would use up whatever dairy they had in the house.

It became a custom in the ancient Church to COLOR EGGS RED for Easter - the Traditional color of the Holy Spirit. You will STILL find this ancient practice in the Orthodox Churches and Eastern Rite Churches.
Next time you watch "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" - look for the scene when the family meets the boyfriend on Easter. The daughter and her father pull out two RED eggs, clink them together and say, "Christos Anesthi" (Christ is Risen!) and the response is "Alithos Anesti!" (Truly He is Risen!) .

Bottom line - do your homework before posting this kind of nonsense . . .

What I hate about us imperfect human beings is we think the traditions such as Easter are equal to scripture. Well their not, no matter how much we imperfect humans try to say they are. Where in Scripture does it tell us to observe traditional days such as Easter and Christmas. We imperfect humans think too much of ourselves by putting these traditions which come from us mere imperfect humans on equal standing with Scripture. By doing that we are putting imperfect humans on equal standing with God, which is a very serious wrong.

 

[Enow]

Looking into the history of the rites of the ancient pagan religion in Rome, the rites were performed and controlled by a number of different priestly collegia and other special priests and magistrates. The priestly organizations that ranked below the collegia were known as sodalicia, and there were many "independent" priests of various cults who bore the title sacerdos. There were pagan beliefs that came in and were picked up and developed a priesthood and became strong in Rome such as the such as the Mysteries of Mithras or worship originating from ancient Babylon.

If you look into church history you will find what is called the Disciplina Arcani or Discipline of the Secret or Discipline of the Arcane, which was a restriction imposing silence upon Christians with respect to their rites and doctrines. It was a theological term used to describe the 'tradition' or custom which came in and prevailed in the church, whereby knowledge of the more 'intimate mysteries' of the Christian religion was carefully kept from non-Christians and even from those who were undergoing instruction in the faith. Lets look see what this "Discipline" actually is from:

This term signifies in general that which is unknowable, or valuable knowledge that is kept secret. In pagan antiquity the word mystery was used to designate certain esoteric doctrines, such as Pythagoreanism, or certain ceremonies that were performed in private or whose meaning was known only to the initiated, e.g., the Eleusinian rites, Phallic worship. In the language of the early Christians the mysteries were those religious teachings that were carefully guarded from the knowledge of the profane (see DISCIPLINE OF THE SECRET).

..theological term used to express the custom which prevailed in the earliest ages of the Church, by which the knowledge of the more intimate mysteries of the Christian religion was carefully kept from the heathen and even from those who were undergoing instruction in the Faith. The custom itself is beyond dispute.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Discipline of the Secret (Catholic Encyclopedia), Discipline of the Secret (Latin Disciplina Arcani ):

There are many other "unwritten mysteries of the Church," says St. Basilc. 66 and 67). They are not mentioned in the Scripture. But they are of great authority and significance. They are indispensable for the preservation of right faith. They are effective means of witness and communication. According to St. Basil, they come from a "silent" and "private" tradition: [From the silent and mystical tradition, from the unpublic and ineffable teaching]. This "silent" and "mystical" tradition, "which has not been made public," is not an esoteric doctrine, reserved for some particular elite. The "elite" was the Church. In fact, "tradition" to which St. Basil appeals, is the liturgical practice of the Church. St. Basil is referring here to what is now denoted as disciplina arcani [The discipline of secrecy].

These 'traditions' of the church of Rome can easily be traced to the source. The Collegium Pontificum in Rome came from ancient pagan religion in Babylon and was the priests who served the public rites of the State religion and contoled both the public rites and the priesthoods themselves. Its leader was the Pontifex Maximus (Greatest Pontiff) who acted as the speaker for the Collegium Pontificum, and oversaw the various priesthoods and the Comitia Curiata and the Vestals. The Flamines were the priest orders that served specific deities such as the Flamen Dialis (priests of Jupiter), the Flamen Martialis (priests of Mars) among the many orders.

Muhammad, the former prophet that brought about the false gospel of Islam, had come across a cult that believed the Trinity doctrine was about the Father, Mary, and Jesus for why he had written that errant doctrine down in the Koran as if "God" was speaking against it when only he had gotten it wrong from an errant source.

I can see now how that set up in Rome would hide the cult coming into the church by treating those who would disagree with their strange practice as the non-initiate. In time, the non-initiate would follow the crowd, but the errant doctrine must have been opposed by the majority of the priests to cite what they believe is the actual doctrine of the Trinity being the Father, Son, & Holy Ghost.

But it does make one wonder if that cult is still practicing as such within the Vatican. Indeed, a few priests testify to Satanism being practiced in the Vatican so there is nothing to say that some Catholics that venerate Mary may still believes that the Trinity is the Father, Mary, and Jesus for why they call her the "Queen of Heaven", a title possibly borrowed from O.T., or borrowed from another cult hidden by that set up in Rome, that can make intercessions for them like another God/Jesus they can pray to.

Indeed, it does explain how they had changed communion from doing it just in remembrance of Him to be more than just that where it is anathema for just doing it in remembrance of Him which Jesus clearly said to only do it for as repeated by Paul. As much emphasis as the CC put communion to be more than that, they fail to see why Jesus made the emphasis on remembrance of Him only by reading The Mass in between the lines instead.

Thanks for sharing. That early set up in Rome does allow errors to come in and be practiced for which one can understand why the Vatican is not excommunicating those practicing Satanism in the Vatican, but allowing it to continue.

 

[Yehren]

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. 2 Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.

 

[Pearl]

I am reading a book called 'Pagan Christianity' which is an eye opener as it explains the pagan origins of many of the things we take for granted in our churches today.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What I hate about us imperfect human beings is we think the traditions such as Easter are equal to scripture. Well their not, no matter how much we imperfect humans try to say they are. Where in Scripture does it tell us to observe traditional days such as Easter and Christmas. We imperfect humans think too much of ourselves by putting these traditions which come from us mere imperfect humans on equal standing with Scripture. By doing that we are putting imperfect humans on equal standing with God, which is a very serious wrong.

Not sure what you're talking about - but I've never heard ANY Christian say that Christmas and Easter traditions are "above" scripture.
You're throwing blind punches into the air . . .

 

[Enow]

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. 2 Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

 

[DPMartin]

Looking into the history of the rites of the ancient pagan religion in Rome, the rites were performed and controlled by a number of different priestly collegia and other special priests and magistrates. The priestly organizations that ranked below the collegia were known as sodalicia, and there were many "independent" priests of various cults who bore the title sacerdos. There were pagan beliefs that came in and were picked up and developed a priesthood and became strong in Rome such as the such as the Mysteries of Mithras or worship originating from ancient Babylon.

If you look into church history you will find what is called the Disciplina Arcani or Discipline of the Secret or Discipline of the Arcane, which was a restriction imposing silence upon Christians with respect to their rites and doctrines. It was a theological term used to describe the 'tradition' or custom which came in and prevailed in the church, whereby knowledge of the more 'intimate mysteries' of the Christian religion was carefully kept from non-Christians and even from those who were undergoing instruction in the faith. Lets look see what this "Discipline" actually is from:

This term signifies in general that which is unknowable, or valuable knowledge that is kept secret. In pagan antiquity the word mystery was used to designate certain esoteric doctrines, such as Pythagoreanism, or certain ceremonies that were performed in private or whose meaning was known only to the initiated, e.g., the Eleusinian rites, Phallic worship. In the language of the early Christians the mysteries were those religious teachings that were carefully guarded from the knowledge of the profane (see DISCIPLINE OF THE SECRET).

..theological term used to express the custom which prevailed in the earliest ages of the Church, by which the knowledge of the more intimate mysteries of the Christian religion was carefully kept from the heathen and even from those who were undergoing instruction in the Faith. The custom itself is beyond dispute.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Discipline of the Secret (Catholic Encyclopedia), Discipline of the Secret (Latin Disciplina Arcani ):

There are many other "unwritten mysteries of the Church," says St. Basilc. 66 and 67). They are not mentioned in the Scripture. But they are of great authority and significance. They are indispensable for the preservation of right faith. They are effective means of witness and communication. According to St. Basil, they come from a "silent" and "private" tradition: [From the silent and mystical tradition, from the unpublic and ineffable teaching]. This "silent" and "mystical" tradition, "which has not been made public," is not an esoteric doctrine, reserved for some particular elite. The "elite" was the Church. In fact, "tradition" to which St. Basil appeals, is the liturgical practice of the Church. St. Basil is referring here to what is now denoted as disciplina arcani [The discipline of secrecy].

These 'traditions' of the church of Rome can easily be traced to the source. The Collegium Pontificum in Rome came from ancient pagan religion in Babylon and was the priests who served the public rites of the State religion and contoled both the public rites and the priesthoods themselves. Its leader was the Pontifex Maximus (Greatest Pontiff) who acted as the speaker for the Collegium Pontificum, and oversaw the various priesthoods and the Comitia Curiata and the Vestals. The Flamines were the priest orders that served specific deities such as the Flamen Dialis (priests of Jupiter), the Flamen Martialis (priests of Mars) among the many orders.

sure the Catholic church was a church of the state, Rome or Roman empire with Constantine's blessing and had to convert the empire to this religion of Rome. seeing they weren't going to convert the people they converted the pagan religions. in many cases in such days an emperor or king chose the god that the masses where to worship and acknowledge.

for example (I don't remember the town or the time or the meeting) the theology behind how the catholic church teaches in the case of Mary, the meeting was in a town known for the worship of a particularly popular female god at the time. what a coincidence huh?

I mean the Lord sustained the catholic church for the sake of the faithful but that doesn't mean the authorities in and of the church were always of the faithful. they served the state. popes where chosen by the emperor as late as Saint Gregory the Great, he was in the 500's I do believe.