Did the ancient Pagan Religions get picked up as 'tradition'?

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Enow

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I am reading a book called 'Pagan Christianity' which is an eye opener as it explains the pagan origins of many of the things we take for granted in our churches today.

When it comes to holidays, Christians need not concern themselves about origins when they are honoring the Lord that day. If pagans knew how to get Christians to not honor the Lord on a certain day, they could make every day a pagan holiday and then what? So how others celebrate the day does not mean Christians cannot honor the Lord that day, and it doesn't mean they HAVE to honor the Lord that day, because they are the Lord's.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
 

Pearl

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When it comes to holidays, Christians need not concern themselves about origins when they are honoring the Lord that day.
I wasn't thinking of holidays. More about altars, and vestments, and candles and incense and other stuff like that.
 

Yehren

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popes where chosen by the emperor as late as Saint Gregory the Great, he was in the 500's I do believe.

No. Bishops within the Holy Roman Empire were chosen by the Emperor, for political reasons. You see, the emperor chose bishops, because as they didn't marry, they would not have heirs, and therefore the emperor could give them fiefs without such fiefs becoming hereditary birthrights. And he wanted to be sure such bishops were politically reliable. Gregory's refusal to allow this, precipitated the conflict between Pope Gregory VII and the Emperor Henry IV.
 

Hobie

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Well officially saint making, or canonization by the Vatican, did not start until the 11th century, but you will find as early as the 2nd century, the veneration of saints was allowed in as it is claimed was began by the pagan converts and came into the church. Basically what these 'converts' were doing the same thing they had done for centuries before and the 'veneration of Saints' was transferred from idol worship. Here is something that makes clear what they did...

The ancient Romans worshiped gods and goddesses involved with every aspect of life. Jupiter, the chief of the gods, was the god of rain and storms, while his wife, Juno, was the goddess of womanhood. Minerva was the goddess of handicrafts and wisdom; Venus, of sexual love and birth; Vesta, of the hearth and sacred fires; Ceres, of farming and harvests.

The Greeks considered Mercury, whom they called Hermes, to be the messenger of the gods, but the Romans worshiped him as the god of trade, with businesspeople celebrating his feast day to increase profits. And there were other popular deities: Mars, god of war; Castor and Pollux, gods of sea travelers; Cronos, the guardian of time; and of course Cupid, god of love, whose magic arrows caused both human beings and immortals to fall in love.

Pagan gods were made Christian saints.
Bacchus became St. Bacchus, and Dionysius
became St. Denys or Denis."
-(Charles G. Berger, Our Phallic Heritage
[NY, NY: Greenwich Book Publishers, Inc., 1966],
p. 154-155).

"The Virgin [Mary] was given the title
Queen of Heaven and is depicted wearing
a blue robe decorated with stars and
standing on a crescent Moon. This image
is almost identical to pagan representations
of the goddess of love Ishtar who was
worshipped by the Babylonians."
-(Michael Howard, The Occult Conspiracy:
The Power of Secret Societies in World History
Ancient statues of mother and child formerly known as the Pagan gods Isis and Horus became Mary and baby Jesus and the old forms of worship came into the church.

Here is the excuse given to why 'idol worship' was allowed in.....
'In attempting to retain new converts from paganism and bring in more, devotion to all the various gods was at length replaced by devotion to "saints."

Yet it should be realized that all members of the early Christian Church were regarded as saints, meaning people sanctified or set apart to God. Paul greets the church at Philippi as "all the saints in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 1:1). However, it wasn't long before "saints" in the Roman tradition began to take on the meaning of a special class of martyrs or performers of heroic virtue.
In the second and third centuries it became common for local congregations to honor the death of a martyr by celebrating the anniversary of his or her demise. The congregations, by this time having accepted the pagan Greek falsehood of the immortality of the soul and having lost the biblical understanding that those dead in their graves "know nothing" (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10), would then offer prayers to the dead for intercession with God.

Thus the meaning of "saint" changed from the biblical use of the word to refer to any member of the Church to referring to a deceased person declared to be a saint by the bishop of Rome. The evolution from the early Church's recognition of all members being "saints" to the veneration and worship of the dead is rooted in the early mixture of paganism with Christianity. The populace throughout the Roman Empire was not only accustomed to the worship of the Greek and Roman pantheon, but to cultic worship of local deities. It was an easy step for Christian congregations rife with paganism to replace the customs of local cults with the worship of dead martyrs.'

The list of 'saints' grew as each area with new converts were given their local dieties or 'martyrs' or anyone they could get someone to say something to qualify him or her as a 'saint' and a process set for it, and it just goes on and on from there.

Saints A to Z: 'A' - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online
 

Josho

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I see you've been reading Alexander Hislop's nonsense probably via some Jack Chick tracts.
A Christian SHOULD be able to smell this kind of manure a mile away. Shame that YOU can't.

For one thing - this idiocy about Easter eggs being pf "pagan" origin.
Time for a Church history lesson . . .

Not sure if you're familiar with the Church season of Lent - but it's a time of self-denial, prayer, fasting and sacrifice. In the ancient Church - they didn't just give up meat on Fridays as an act of mortification of the flesh and as a means of drawing closer to God (Romans 8:13, Col. 3:5, Gal. 5:24). They actually went without ALL dairy products including milk, cheese and EGGS. This is why the practice of making pancakes the night before Ash Wednesday (Shrove Tuesday) became a tradition - because they would use up whatever dairy they had in the house.

It became a custom in the ancient Church to COLOR EGGS RED for Easter - the Traditional color of the Holy Spirit. You will STILL find this ancient practice in the Orthodox Churches and Eastern Rite Churches.
Next time you watch "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" - look for the scene when the family meets the boyfriend on Easter. The daughter and her father pull out two RED eggs, clink them together and say, "Christos Anesthi" (Christ is Risen!) and the response is "Alithos Anesti!" (Truly He is Risen!) .

Bottom line -
do your homework before posting this kind of nonsense . . .

And eating pancakes and Easter eggs is a whole lot of fun too. Don't see anything wrong with either, because there is nothing wrong with either of those traditions.

Think of it as if you are feasting with Jesus.

-----------------

I don't do the season of Lent by the way and there's nothing wrong with Lent. But have had a couple of Shrove Tuesday's where we had pancakes, and we always eat chocolate during Easter.
 
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quietthinker

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I see you've been reading Alexander Hislop's nonsense probably via some Jack Chick tracts.
A Christian SHOULD be able to smell this kind of manure a mile away. Shame that YOU can't.

For one thing - this idiocy about Easter eggs being pf "pagan" origin.
Time for a Church history lesson . . .

Not sure if you're familiar with the Church season of Lent - but it's a time of self-denial, prayer, fasting and sacrifice. In the ancient Church - they didn't just give up meat on Fridays as an act of mortification of the flesh and as a means of drawing closer to God (Romans 8:13, Col. 3:5, Gal. 5:24). They actually went without ALL dairy products including milk, cheese and EGGS. This is why the practice of making pancakes the night before Ash Wednesday (Shrove Tuesday) became a tradition - because they would use up whatever dairy they had in the house.

It became a custom in the ancient Church to COLOR EGGS RED for Easter - the Traditional color of the Holy Spirit. You will STILL find this ancient practice in the Orthodox Churches and Eastern Rite Churches.
Next time you watch "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" - look for the scene when the family meets the boyfriend on Easter. The daughter and her father pull out two RED eggs, clink them together and say, "Christos Anesthi" (Christ is Risen!) and the response is "Alithos Anesti!" (Truly He is Risen!) .

Bottom line -
do your homework before posting this kind of nonsense . . .
Anybody that picks their nose in a particular way for long enough can call it tradition or custom!
 

Hobie

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sure the Catholic church was a church of the state, Rome or Roman empire with Constantine's blessing and had to convert the empire to this religion of Rome. seeing they weren't going to convert the people they converted the pagan religions. in many cases in such days an emperor or king chose the god that the masses where to worship and acknowledge.

for example (I don't remember the town or the time or the meeting) the theology behind how the catholic church teaches in the case of Mary, the meeting was in a town known for the worship of a particularly popular female god at the time. what a coincidence huh?

I mean the Lord sustained the catholic church for the sake of the faithful but that doesn't mean the authorities in and of the church were always of the faithful. they served the state. popes where chosen by the emperor as late as Saint Gregory the Great, he was in the 500's I do believe.
The thing is the well was poisoned with the substitute which comes from the adversary, rather than being 'Christianized' or converted, the corruption came into the church. This comes from a site I came across which describes how that as the Gentile converts were brought into the Catholic Church they were allowed to bring in their pagan statues which had to be given Christian names in order to be 'Christianized', eg: the Statue of St Peter in St Peters Cathedral was originally the statue of the pagan god Jupiter.

'Some dispute that Church leaders incorporated pagan religious practices from Babylon into the Catholic Church but even Catholic historians admit it. Cardinal Newman in his Development of Christian Doctrine, pages 372, 373 says that they incorporated many pagan religious practices into the Church. He claims that the Church sanctified them and that made it safe to bring these practices into the Church. The Catholic Council of Trent also declared that: “It is lawful to have images in the Church and to give honour and worship to them ... Images are put in Churches that they may be worshipped.”
The Oxford dictionary defines an idol as: “An image used as an object of worship. A person or thing that is the object of excessive devotion.”...

Now if we go to scripture, there is a dilemma for the Catholic church and the practice of the 'veneration of the saints', as here is what scripture says...

Isaiah 2:17-21 King James Version (KJV)
17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
 

Hobie

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And eating pancakes and Easter eggs is a whole lot of fun too. Don't see anything wrong with either, because there is nothing wrong with either of those traditions.

Think of it as if you are feasting with Jesus.

-----------------

I don't do the season of Lent by the way and there's nothing wrong with Lent. But have had a couple of Shrove Tuesday's where we had pancakes, and we always eat chocolate during Easter.
Easter is a pagan festival, it isn't really about Jesus, but a idea pushed to cover up its origin. Today, we see a secular culture celebrating the spring equinox, whilst religious culture celebrates the resurrection. However, Christianity let heathen festivals come in and made a acceptance of ancient pagan practices. The general symbolic story of the death of the son (sun) on a cross (the constellation of the Southern Cross) and his rebirth, overcoming the powers of darkness, was a well worn story in the ancient world. There were plenty of parallel, rival resurrected pagan gods too.

The Sumerian goddess Inanna, or Ishtar, was hung naked on a stake, and was subsequently resurrected and ascended from the underworld. One of the oldest resurrection myths is Egyptian Horus. Born on 25 December, Horus and his damaged eye became symbols of life and rebirth. Mithras was born on what we now call Christmas day, and his followers celebrated the spring equinox. Even as late as the 4th century AD, the Sol Invictus, associated with Mithras, was the last great pagan cult the church faced and rather than reject it let it come into the church with its sun worship. Dionysus was a divine child, resurrected and Dionysus also brought the mother goddess, Semele, back to life.

The Cybele cult flourished on today's Vatican Hill. They held that Cybele's lover Attis, was born of a virgin, died and was reborn annually. This spring festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday, rising to a crescendo after three days, in rejoicing over the resurrection. There was violent conflict on Vatican Hill in the early days of Christianity between the Jesus worshippers and pagans who quarrelled over whose God was the true, and whose the imitation. Christianity came to an accommodation with the pagan Spring festival and used it to bring in unconverted pagans. Although we see no celebration of Easter in the New Testament, the church in Rome celebrated it and used its power to spread it throughout Christiandom, and today we see many churches offering "sunrise services" at Easter – an obvious pagan solar celebration. ?

All the things about Easter are pagan. Bunnies are a leftover from the pagan festival of Eostre, a great northern goddess whose symbol was a rabbit or hare. Exchange of eggs is an ancient custom, celebrated by many cultures. Hot cross buns are very ancient too. In the Old Testament we see the Israelites baking sweet buns for an idol, and religious leaders trying to put a stop to it. The early church clergy also tried to put a stop to sacred cakes being baked at Easter. In the end, in the face of defiant cake-baking pagan women, they gave up and it swept into the church as it fell into apostasy and turned against the true believers which it then persecuted.

Easter is essentially a pagan festival which was celebrated with gifts and the ancient symbolism still is held by many who just don't know its true origin.
 

BreadOfLife

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Anybody that picks their nose in a particular way for long enough can call it tradition or custom!
And anybody who calls themselves a "Christian" and doesn't know that much of what they believe is based on Tradition - is ignorant . . .
 
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DPMartin

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The thing is the well was poisoned with the substitute which comes from the adversary, rather than being 'Christianized' or converted, the corruption came into the church. This comes from a site I came across which describes how that as the Gentile converts were brought into the Catholic Church they were allowed to bring in their pagan statues which had to be given Christian names in order to be 'Christianized', eg: the Statue of St Peter in St Peters Cathedral was originally the statue of the pagan god Jupiter.

'Some dispute that Church leaders incorporated pagan religious practices from Babylon into the Catholic Church but even Catholic historians admit it. Cardinal Newman in his Development of Christian Doctrine, pages 372, 373 says that they incorporated many pagan religious practices into the Church. He claims that the Church sanctified them and that made it safe to bring these practices into the Church. The Catholic Council of Trent also declared that: “It is lawful to have images in the Church and to give honour and worship to them ... Images are put in Churches that they may be worshipped.”
The Oxford dictionary defines an idol as: “An image used as an object of worship. A person or thing that is the object of excessive devotion.”...

Now if we go to scripture, there is a dilemma for the Catholic church and the practice of the 'veneration of the saints', as here is what scripture says...

Isaiah 2:17-21 King James Version (KJV)
17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.


well then the same happened to Israel. human nature is human nature not God's nature so its foolish to expect human nature to produce anything else. apple trees don't produce oranges.
 

DPMartin

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No. Bishops within the Holy Roman Empire were chosen by the Emperor, for political reasons. You see, the emperor chose bishops, because as they didn't marry, they would not have heirs, and therefore the emperor could give them fiefs without such fiefs becoming hereditary birthrights. And he wanted to be sure such bishops were politically reliable. Gregory's refusal to allow this, precipitated the conflict between Pope Gregory VII and the Emperor Henry IV.

emperors chose popes back in the day, and emperors always think in political terms its who and what they are. even an honest emperor thinks of what is best in his own view for his subjects, that's his job. just how do you think the church became so powerful and influential in Europe as the rule and judge and prosecute civil and criminal cases and there was a time Kings had to be recognized by the church. all of that is political power.

the church was what the media is today, the trusted information. telling the general public who's the bad guy who's the good guy and what should be believed about anything of political and economic matters.

today in the US if the church files under a common tax code for churches they are not permitted to discuss anything political from the pulpit. a tax code implemented after Martin Luther King's assent into political and social influence using the pulpit.

hence the pulpit isn't permitted to contradict the media on politics and politicians unless they use the old tax code which is rarely used because there's mo money in the newer one.
 

Pearl

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today in the US if the church files under a common tax code for churches they are not permitted to discuss anything political from the pulpit. a tax code implemented after Martin Luther King's assent into political and social influence using the pulpit.

hence the pulpit isn't permitted to contradict the media on politics and politicians unless they use the old tax code which is rarely used because there's mo money in the newer one.
That's gagging.
 

Yehren

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emperors chose popes back in the day, and emperors always think in political terms its who and what they are. even an honest emperor thinks of what is best in his own view for his subjects, that's his job. just how do you think the church became so powerful and influential in Europe as the rule and judge and prosecute civil and criminal cases and there was a time Kings had to be recognized by the church. all of that is political power.

There was no official procedure for selecting popes before 1059. Usually, it was some kind of election involving other bishops, although the old pope might make a selection.

While some kind of election often characterized the procedure, an election that included meaningful participation of the laity was rare, especially as the popes' claims to temporal power solidified into the Papal States.
Papal selection before 1059 - Wikipedia

After 1059, it was done by a group of cardinals, by the decree of Pope Nicholas II.
 

Hobie

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well then the same happened to Israel. human nature is human nature not God's nature so its foolish to expect human nature to produce anything else. apple trees don't produce oranges.
Exactly, thus Jesus tells them directly...
Mark 7:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

We see even today Christians rejecting the Commandments and going with "tradition", which as we see is not from God, but the adversary.
 

Yehren

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DPMartin said:
today in the US if the church files under a common tax code for churches they are not permitted to discuss anything political from the pulpit. a tax code implemented after Martin Luther King's assent into political and social influence using the pulpit.

hence the pulpit isn't permitted to contradict the media on politics and politicians unless they use the old tax code which is rarely used because there's mo money in the newer one.

That's gagging.

Tough lesson to learn; "if you get a government handout, it comes with government control."
 

BreadOfLife

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today in the US if the church files under a common tax code for churches they are not permitted to discuss anything political from the pulpit. a tax code implemented after Martin Luther King's assent into political and social influence using the pulpit.

hence the pulpit isn't permitted to contradict the media on politics and politicians unless they use the old tax code which is rarely used because there's mo money in the newer one.
Actually - that's not accurate.

The 501c3 Tax Exempt status prohibits churches from backing certain candidates - but doesn't forbid them from supporting or campaigning against certain issues.
We have had petition campaigns at our parish and diocese regarding certain abortion laws, etc. and have had sermons about them from the pulpit.
 

Josho

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Easter is a pagan festival, it isn't really about Jesus, but a idea pushed to cover up its origin. Today, we see a secular culture celebrating the spring equinox, whilst religious culture celebrates the resurrection. However, Christianity let heathen festivals come in and made a acceptance of ancient pagan practices. The general symbolic story of the death of the son (sun) on a cross (the constellation of the Southern Cross) and his rebirth, overcoming the powers of darkness, was a well worn story in the ancient world. There were plenty of parallel, rival resurrected pagan gods too.

The Sumerian goddess Inanna, or Ishtar, was hung naked on a stake, and was subsequently resurrected and ascended from the underworld. One of the oldest resurrection myths is Egyptian Horus. Born on 25 December, Horus and his damaged eye became symbols of life and rebirth. Mithras was born on what we now call Christmas day, and his followers celebrated the spring equinox. Even as late as the 4th century AD, the Sol Invictus, associated with Mithras, was the last great pagan cult the church faced and rather than reject it let it come into the church with its sun worship. Dionysus was a divine child, resurrected and Dionysus also brought the mother goddess, Semele, back to life.

The Cybele cult flourished on today's Vatican Hill. They held that Cybele's lover Attis, was born of a virgin, died and was reborn annually. This spring festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday, rising to a crescendo after three days, in rejoicing over the resurrection. There was violent conflict on Vatican Hill in the early days of Christianity between the Jesus worshippers and pagans who quarrelled over whose God was the true, and whose the imitation. Christianity came to an accommodation with the pagan Spring festival and used it to bring in unconverted pagans. Although we see no celebration of Easter in the New Testament, the church in Rome celebrated it and used its power to spread it throughout Christiandom, and today we see many churches offering "sunrise services" at Easter – an obvious pagan solar celebration. ?

All the things about Easter are pagan. Bunnies are a leftover from the pagan festival of Eostre, a great northern goddess whose symbol was a rabbit or hare. Exchange of eggs is an ancient custom, celebrated by many cultures. Hot cross buns are very ancient too. In the Old Testament we see the Israelites baking sweet buns for an idol, and religious leaders trying to put a stop to it. The early church clergy also tried to put a stop to sacred cakes being baked at Easter. In the end, in the face of defiant cake-baking pagan women, they gave up and it swept into the church as it fell into apostasy and turned against the true believers which it then persecuted.

Easter is essentially a pagan festival which was celebrated with gifts and the ancient symbolism still is held by many who just don't know its true origin.
Easter is a pagan festival, it isn't really about Jesus, but a idea pushed to cover up its origin. Today, we see a secular culture celebrating the spring equinox, whilst religious culture celebrates the resurrection. However, Christianity let heathen festivals come in and made a acceptance of ancient pagan practices. The general symbolic story of the death of the son (sun) on a cross (the constellation of the Southern Cross) and his rebirth, overcoming the powers of darkness, was a well worn story in the ancient world. There were plenty of parallel, rival resurrected pagan gods too.

The Sumerian goddess Inanna, or Ishtar, was hung naked on a stake, and was subsequently resurrected and ascended from the underworld. One of the oldest resurrection myths is Egyptian Horus. Born on 25 December, Horus and his damaged eye became symbols of life and rebirth. Mithras was born on what we now call Christmas day, and his followers celebrated the spring equinox. Even as late as the 4th century AD, the Sol Invictus, associated with Mithras, was the last great pagan cult the church faced and rather than reject it let it come into the church with its sun worship. Dionysus was a divine child, resurrected and Dionysus also brought the mother goddess, Semele, back to life.

The Cybele cult flourished on today's Vatican Hill. They held that Cybele's lover Attis, was born of a virgin, died and was reborn annually. This spring festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday, rising to a crescendo after three days, in rejoicing over the resurrection. There was violent conflict on Vatican Hill in the early days of Christianity between the Jesus worshippers and pagans who quarrelled over whose God was the true, and whose the imitation. Christianity came to an accommodation with the pagan Spring festival and used it to bring in unconverted pagans. Although we see no celebration of Easter in the New Testament, the church in Rome celebrated it and used its power to spread it throughout Christiandom, and today we see many churches offering "sunrise services" at Easter – an obvious pagan solar celebration. ?

All the things about Easter are pagan. Bunnies are a leftover from the pagan festival of Eostre, a great northern goddess whose symbol was a rabbit or hare. Exchange of eggs is an ancient custom, celebrated by many cultures. Hot cross buns are very ancient too. In the Old Testament we see the Israelites baking sweet buns for an idol, and religious leaders trying to put a stop to it. The early church clergy also tried to put a stop to sacred cakes being baked at Easter. In the end, in the face of defiant cake-baking pagan women, they gave up and it swept into the church as it fell into apostasy and turned against the true believers which it then persecuted.

Easter is essentially a pagan festival which was celebrated with gifts and the ancient symbolism still is held by many who just don't know its true origin.

I think the way it can be thought of though, is that it wasn't originally pagan at the beginning of time, and we have steered clear of it being pagan in the west so much, that the real witches and sorcerers absolutely hate Easter, they know what we celebrate it for, and they hate it so much that they get up to some pretty nasty things for example cursing Christians, I don't want to go into detail, because it is pure evil what they get up to.

Whether if Easter was once pagan or not, it is definitely far from it now, and are the biggest dates on the Christian calendar.

And a lot of those ancient pagan religions from the ancient Greeks and Romans before the apostles got the gospel into those places are well and truly dead.

But there was a big shift after the gospel got into those places, and they would have been celebrating Jesus instead of their past. When they were saved, they were celebrating the real One that created all living creatures including the rabbit, and they were celebrating the Creator instead of creation, and they would have been celebrating the fact that they could now be a new man in Christ Jesus.

So that's the way I see it, and that's why I say "nothing wrong with Easter" because many those Romans and Greeks were converted.
 
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Philip James

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I think the way it can be thought of though, is that it wasn't originally pagan at the beginning of time, and we have steered clear of it being pagan in the west so much, that the real witches and sorcerers absolutely hate Easter, they know what we celebrate it for, and they hate it so much that they get up to some pretty nasty things for example cursing Christians, I don't want to go into detail, because it is pure evil what they get up to.

Whether if Easter was once pagan or not, it is definitely far from it now, and are the biggest dates on the Christian calendar.

And a lot of those ancient pagan religions from the ancient Greeks and Romans before the apostles got the gospel into those places are well and truly dead.

But there was a big shift after the gospel got into those places, and they would have been celebrating Jesus instead of their past. When they were saved, they were celebrating the real One that created all living creatures including the rabbit, and they were celebrating the Creator instead of creation, and they would have been celebrating the fact that they could now be a new man in Christ Jesus.

So that's the way I see it, and that's why I say "nothing wrong with Easter" because many those Romans and Greeks were converted.

Hi Josho,

Well said.
I dont understand those who claim the Church was paganized rather than that pagan celbebrations were reordered to the proper object of our worship, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

To say otherwise is to say that the gates of hell DID prevail, and makes Jesus a false prophet.

The apostle John makes it clear that we are to remain within the community of the apostles:

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.


Peace be with you!
 

Hobie

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I think the way it can be thought of though, is that it wasn't originally pagan at the beginning of time, and we have steered clear of it being pagan in the west so much, that the real witches and sorcerers absolutely hate Easter, they know what we celebrate it for, and they hate it so much that they get up to some pretty nasty things for example cursing Christians, I don't want to go into detail, because it is pure evil what they get up to.

Whether if Easter was once pagan or not, it is definitely far from it now, and are the biggest dates on the Christian calendar.

And a lot of those ancient pagan religions from the ancient Greeks and Romans before the apostles got the gospel into those places are well and truly dead.

But there was a big shift after the gospel got into those places, and they would have been celebrating Jesus instead of their past. When they were saved, they were celebrating the real One that created all living creatures including the rabbit, and they were celebrating the Creator instead of creation, and they would have been celebrating the fact that they could now be a new man in Christ Jesus.

So that's the way I see it, and that's why I say "nothing wrong with Easter" because many those Romans and Greeks were converted.
Well, if you look you will find that many pre-christian Europeans worshiped the sun and other pagan gods as they thought that their sun gods and fertility goddesses died at the winter solstice and regained life again at the spring equinox......

Note what it says in Judges:
"Judges 2:13 And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth."

Baal worship is sun worship, and Ashtoreth / Ishtar / Astarte is the queen of heaven. This is why there are so many sunburst images in Catholicism and why Mary is called the Queen of heaven. It is the apostasy of idol worship of Baal and Ashtaroth that started to come into the church.
 
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