Difference between the Old and New Covenant

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Prentis

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What is the difference between the two?

Christ is the obvious answer, but what does that mean?

After all, some men in the Old Covenant had his power upon them and working through them, and were greatly faithful... Men like Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Caleb, Gideon, David, Isaiah, Elijah... Just to name a few.

I have one idea, but will wait for other input. :)
 

Vengle

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What is the difference between the two?

Christ is the obvious answer, but what does that mean?

After all, some men in the Old Covenant had his power upon them and working through them, and were greatly faithful... Men like Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Caleb, Gideon, David, Isaiah, Elijah... Just to name a few.

I have one idea, but will wait for other input. :)

God made allowance in the old covenant for men to try to work out righteousness of their own goodness.

His grace was yet working and those of faith yet received justification through faith.

The only thing that has really changed is that the total focus has now become his grace and its purpose.

The law has already proved its point.

Not that he has done away with law but that now that law must come from our hearts, just as it did for all men of faith back then.
 

Prentis

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God made allowance in the old covenant for men to try to work out righteousness of their own goodness.

His grace was yet working and those of faith yet received justification through faith.

The only thing that has really changed is that the total focus has now become his grace and its purpose.

The law has already proved its point.

Not that he has done away with law but that now that law must come from our hearts, just as it did for all men of faith back then.

Was it not already about his grace, in other words, his power and anointing that was upon the prophets and those who followed him? Was it not already about obeying God?

Is the law now no more to be followed (that is, love God, and love your neighbor as yourslef)?

:)
 

Vengle

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Was it not already about his grace, in other words, his power and anointing that was upon the prophets and those who followed him? Was it not already about obeying God?

Is the law now no more to be followed (that is, love God, and love your neighbor as yourslef)?

:)

I apologize for the ambiguity.

When I said. "The law has already proved its point." I meant that Old Law Covenant.

But God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He is a gracious God.

Period.

People that think a whole lot is different do not know God.

Ezekiel 18:21 ¶But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

His grace can be seen in that if one wants to see it. Verses 21-23 are most obvious.
 

Prentis

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Thanks for clarifying, brother. :)

So I guess our question remains... What is the difference then, between the Old the New Covenant?

We know it has to do with Jesus, but what difference does that do in our ability to obey?
 

Vengle

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We see it in the song of Solomon (Canticles)

God is wooing us through love in his Son where before he laid it out in cold black and white letter but only to one nation so we could see what man could do on his own.

But he loved even the gentiles then as now when they had faith in him like the Asian Job.

Love is a powerful thing. 2 Corinthians 5:14 :"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:"

2 Corinthians 5:14 "For it is the love of Christ which is moving us; because we are of the opinion that if one was put to death for all, then all have undergone death;" (BBE)

2 Corinthians 5:14 "For the love of Christ overmasters us, the conclusion at which we have arrived being this -- that One having died for all, His death was their death," (WNT)

constraineth <G4912>

sunecho -- pronounced: soon-ekh'-o

from 4862 and 2192; to hold together, i.e. to compress (the ears, with a crowd or siege) or arrest (a prisoner); figuratively, to compel, perplex, afflict, preoccupy:
And when we are faithful to let that love compel us, he reaches in with his spirit to give a little help for our infirmities.

But guess what.

He always has.

There is not as much different as people think.

God is not destroying those in the flood having given them any less help than he gives to us today. It is foolish to think our God of love and justice and mercy would. And the Bible correctly understood does not teach that he did.

It would shock most to know how far we have turned aside from the truth.
 

Prentis

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I do think that the difference is at the level of love.

But as you pointed out, the love of God, which compels us was already there in the Old Covenant... In a way!

What has changed?
 

Vengle

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I do think that the difference is at the level of love.

But as you pointed out, the love of God, which compels us was already there in the Old Covenant... In a way!

What has changed?

God has not changed. He does not change.


Nothing has really changed but us.


He has taken away the heart of stone and given us a heart of flesh.


Ezekiel 11:19 "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:" (Ezekiel 36:26)


And now that he has done that he can put his law in our hearts where there is freedom for it to work his righteousness in us.


The Law in ink on paper could not do that.


Galatians 3:21 "Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."


That Old law was never meant to be anything more than a demonstration of man's sin. It is an illusion to think otherwise.


Galatians 3:19 "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator."


We see all the trouble caused of those that think something has changed. They do not really see that God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow if they do not see that the Old Covenant arrangement was only temporary.

And that is true whether they claim that we are yet bound to that written law or not, if they think something has changed in God's ways.

We are changing.

Not God.
 

Vengle

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All that is new is the new creation in Christ. But even that has been being made new from the foundation of the world.


Some might think that this is what is new: 1 John 4:19 "We love him, because he first loved us."


But that has been true for all men of faith from the beginning of the creation of man. Before Adam chose to turn away from that love preferring to love his self and Eve more (a thing that is rampant today), Adam loved God because God first loved him.


Why did Abraham have faith and love toward God? He certainly knew God's love as is evident in this: Genesis 18:25 "That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"


Abraham saw that God loved us first and Abraham was moved by God's love to love.


But not all are so moved and that temporary add-on of a hand written law proved that.


Nothing has changed in God's way of dealing with us.


He has merely wrought things in a way that the more of us could see that.


What he is doing today is what he was working toward from the beginning.


If we know God as Abraham did then we know that all men throughout every age has been shown the same love and given the same help.


God has not destroyed a soul that he has not treated equally as us.


We ought to feel ashamed to believe that he would.
 

Perspectives

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Ps. 50:2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God will shine forth. Zion is the finished work, God is shining now and always has been, for the work is done.The text here speaks of light. God is light and without darkness. When light strikes an object it casts a shadow on the other side. Yes, it's all about Jesus, because the object is the Cross.The shadow is what people walked up for 4 days, or 4 thousand years (II Pet. 3:8). The beginning of the 5th day they could start walking in the light. It's not only One Lord, One faith, One baptisim....It's one book, the old enfolds into the new. Gal. 3:24&25 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. V.25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. If I refuse to be tutored, I will continue to exist in a shadow of half truths, intellectual debate and obscurity.
 

veteran

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Christ was born in the flesh, had no sin, was crucified for the remission of sins of those who believe, and He was raised by The Father to sit on His right hand, expecting until all His enemies are made His footstool. Christ ended the need for a fleshy priesthood and fleshy sacrifices, and He became the Perfect Sacrifice for one and all time, our Passover sacrificed for us. Those who remain faithful in Him to the end are to rule with Him on the earth as priests and kings. Christ Jesus only is our Salvation, the only Way of Salvation, for there is no other name by which man can be saved.

All those things are about The New Covenant, and there's more than just that which show difference from the Old Covenant.

However, the Old Testament 'Books', ALSO include many prophecies specific to The New Covenant, which is why we as Christians should not slight our study in the Old Testament Books, especially those of the prophets as we are commanded to be mindful of.
 

Vengle

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Christ was born in the flesh, had no sin, was crucified for the remission of sins of those who believe, and He was raised by The Father to sit on His right hand, expecting until all His enemies are made His footstool. Christ ended the need for a fleshy priesthood and fleshy sacrifices, and He became the Perfect Sacrifice for one and all time, our Passover sacrificed for us. Those who remain faithful in Him to the end are to rule with Him on the earth as priests and kings. Christ Jesus only is our Salvation, the only Way of Salvation, for there is no other name by which man can be saved.

All those things are about The New Covenant, and there's more than just that which show difference from the Old Covenant.

However, the Old Testament 'Books', ALSO include many prophecies specific to The New Covenant, which is why we as Christians should not slight our study in the Old Testament Books, especially those of the prophets as we are commanded to be mindful of.

Yes as far as the works of the Old Law compared to now, the differences are too numerous to mention.

But that is because the Old Law merely contain shadows of things.

For example we know that sheep pictured the meek people of this earth.

The spots on a lamb pictured sin in men.

A pure white lamb prefigured Christ.

All of the things in that law amplified that message of God about sin and our need of being cleansed to holiness.

The clean and unclean meats were about impressing that same point on us. The unclean meat represented unclean men.

The things under the Old Law were symbolism to illustrate spiritual points.

If it is actually harmful to eat all animals then God told Noah and his family to do what was harmful to them at Genesis 9:3-4.

God could have told them to eat just certain animals but he did not. That proves that God does not view eating them as bad in and of itself.

“Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.”

God told them not to eat those things for a two-fold reason:

(1) To demonstrate that he is the law-giver and he has the right to ask us to do what-ever he desires.

(2) The unclean meats pictured spiritually unclean men. That is why men and nations are compared so often to beasts in the OT.

Just as we are asked to eat Jesus’ body, our clinging to a friend and adopting that friend’s ways is like eating him, assimilating him in our self. That is why bad association spoils useful habits. 1 Corinthians 15:33 "Be not deceived: Evil companionships corrupt good morals." (ASV)

Peter knew the unclean animals pictured spiritually unclean humans. Read: Acts 10: 9-28

There is much difference in that regard which one does not see unless they meditate in that law with the aide of the holy spirit.

But those that do understand what the various utensils and all those things under that Old Law prefigured, they also understand that it is nothing but progress to something better that we no longer live by those things of that Old Law.

And they understand that God has not changed. He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow His grace is who he is. It is a part of his love and as 1 John 4:8 says, "God is love."
 

Prentis

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Yes, the new creation in Christ, that's where my train of thought was leading. :)

'A new commadment I give you, to love as I have loved you'.

The bar is raised, because now we can have our heart circumcised to be as Jesus'.

[sup]54[/sup]And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
[sup]55[/sup]But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
[sup]56[/sup]For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Now the Spirit can reside in our hearts, the veil is torn (circumcision of the heart).
 

Vengle

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Yes, the new creation in Christ, that's where my train of thought was leading. :)

'A new commadment I give you, to love as I have loved you'.

The bar is raised, because now we can have our heart circumcised to be as Jesus'.

[sup]54[/sup]And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
[sup]55[/sup]But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
[sup]56[/sup]For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Now the Spirit can reside in our hearts, the veil is torn (circumcision of the heart).

It has been a while since I read that scripture. It hits right to the heart, doesn't it.

Like refreshing rain falling upon parched ground and the ground sings back in appreciation with flowers and green vegetation from which others reap of God's goodness.

Similarly God rains his love upon us and we sing back in appreciation bearing good fruits that others then benefit from through us, all praise be to Him.
 
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brionne

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What is the difference between the two?

Christ is the obvious answer, but what does that mean?

After all, some men in the Old Covenant had his power upon them and working through them, and were greatly faithful... Men like Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Caleb, Gideon, David, Isaiah, Elijah... Just to name a few.

I have one idea, but will wait for other input. :)


to me the obvious answer is that the mosaic law (old covenant) required 'works', whereas the new covenant requires 'faith'


The purpose of the mosaic law was different too. Paul said that it was a 'tutor leading to christ' ...in other words, the purpose of the mosaic law was to teach the jews how to live by and practice Gods righteousness. Whereas the purpose of the new covenant is the provision of salvation. To those putting faith in the provision and living in harmony with how Christ lived, salvation is on the table.
 

Prentis

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to me the obvious answer is that the mosaic law (old covenant) required 'works', whereas the new covenant requires 'faith'


The purpose of the mosaic law was different too. Paul said that it was a 'tutor leading to christ' ...in other words, the purpose of the mosaic law was to teach the jews how to live by and practice Gods righteousness. Whereas the purpose of the new covenant is the provision of salvation. To those putting faith in the provision and living in harmony with how Christ lived, salvation is on the table.

And yet it says that the sons of Abraham, already then, were heirs of the righteousness of faith!

And David broke the law, yet he was a man after God's own heart.

The law is indeed a tutor, but already, God was teaching men faith. Yes, there is now a 'faith once and for all delivered unto the saints', but we go from 'faith to faith', and that is also what happens from the Old to the New Covenant. :)

Righteousness is in doing what is just to others, in other words, loving God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself. That requires faith to start with. But holiness is to love as he loved, and give all for Christ. That, also requires faith, but at a different level. ;)
 

veteran

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Well, I didn't know this was going to be yet another debate about God's laws. But since you all have opened that can...

God's law STILL stands today.

Only the portions which Christ nailed to His cross are done away, specifically commandments in ordinances, as those especially involved the priestly rituals, animal sacrifices, etc. Christ became all that.

But God did not do away with His law against murder, rape, adulteries and fornication, stealing, perjury, health laws, and many other things. Even His commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself was given in Lev.19.

Concerning God's health law, unclean animals are still unhealthy to us today. The proof is with how many are sick from eating unhealthy. So that point has not changed. The point that has changed is like Paul taught, that if you're invited to dinner among Gentiles, eat what is put before you, not asking questions, doing that for The Gospel's sake. So under Christ Jesus per The New Covenant, we can eat outside of God's health law and it not be a Salvation issue. But we fool ourselves if we think eating unclean meats, like scavengers, is going to be healthy to our body.
 

Vengle

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Well, I didn't know this was going to be yet another debate about God's laws. But since you all have opened that can...

God's law STILL stands today.

Only the portions which Christ nailed to His cross are done away, specifically commandments in ordinances, as those especially involved the priestly rituals, animal sacrifices, etc. Christ became all that.

But God did not do away with His law against murder, rape, adulteries and fornication, stealing, perjury, health laws, and many other things. Even His commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself was given in Lev.19.

Concerning God's health law, unclean animals are still unhealthy to us today. The proof is with how many are sick from eating unhealthy. So that point has not changed. The point that has changed is like Paul taught, that if you're invited to dinner among Gentiles, eat what is put before you, not asking questions, doing that for The Gospel's sake. So under Christ Jesus per The New Covenant, we can eat outside of God's health law and it not be a Salvation issue. But we fool ourselves if we think eating unclean meats, like scavengers, is going to be healthy to our body.

Great.

Romans 7:4 "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

Now Christ is my law. You keep leaning on a crutch if you want to.

I see what you are saying as trying to hold onto a few bones of a dead man.

You are willing to let go, but only in part. You are either dead to that law or not.

Which is it?
 

Prentis

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Well, I didn't know this was going to be yet another debate about God's laws. But since you all have opened that can...

God's law STILL stands today.

Only the portions which Christ nailed to His cross are done away, specifically commandments in ordinances, as those especially involved the priestly rituals, animal sacrifices, etc. Christ became all that.

But God did not do away with His law against murder, rape, adulteries and fornication, stealing, perjury, health laws, and many other things. Even His commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself was given in Lev.19.

Concerning God's health law, unclean animals are still unhealthy to us today. The proof is with how many are sick from eating unhealthy. So that point has not changed. The point that has changed is like Paul taught, that if you're invited to dinner among Gentiles, eat what is put before you, not asking questions, doing that for The Gospel's sake. So under Christ Jesus per The New Covenant, we can eat outside of God's health law and it not be a Salvation issue. But we fool ourselves if we think eating unclean meats, like scavengers, is going to be healthy to our body.

But eating those things does not make one unclean spiritually in any matter or form. Christ commanded Peter to eat such things, once!

I agree with you that righteousness is in no way done away with, and we are held to do what is right still.

But we are now also called to walk in a higher righteousness, the righteousness of God, or holiness. This does not negate the first, but goes beyond it. We are called to walk according to the Spirit, in perfect communion with the Father.

I am not so worried about people still looking at the law and wishing to do what is right, love God and their neighbour. That is good. But if one wishes to be perfect, mature, whole, a disciple, one must go beyond this.

What I fear is people who preach we have to do less now, rather than going further.