River Jordan said:
Well, without any actual specific examples of what you're talking about, it's just empty rhetoric.
OK, we can play that game if you like. Specific example:
"You can just sit in your chair, throw rocks at the scientists who actually do the work, and declare yourself superior."
So ignoring the fact that I'm not sitting in a chair at all, where did I "throw rocks" at any scientists? Where did I declare myself superior?
On the basis that it IS disputed. Or are you trying to say that everyone who examines these fossils are ALL in agreement that they are feathers? The following papers indicate that such claims have been questioned:
1.Feduccia, A., Lingham-Soliar, T., and Hinchliffe, J.R., Do Featured Dinosaurs Exist?: Testing the Hypothesis on Neontological and Paleontological Evidence, J. Morphology 266:125–166, 2005 | DOI: 10.1002/jmor.10382; Published Online: 10 October 2005.
2.Lingham-Soliar, T., Alan Feduccia, A. and Wang, X., A new Chinese specimen indicates that ‘protofeathers’ in the Early Cretaceous theropod dinosaur Sinosauropteryx are degraded collagen fibres, Proc. Royal Soc. B | doi:10.1098/rspb.2007.0352, Published online 23 May 2007.
Now before you get all cocky and ask me whether or not I have read these papers then I will be honest and say that I have not. All I am doing is pointing out evidence that indicates that fossils that were assumed to be feathers have been given alternative explanations, such as degraded collagen fibres.
How do we tell if they are birds or not?
According to what classification system? I mean, that's a stupid question isn't it? I doesn't really prove anything knowing whether or not they are "birds". What you need to do, in order to support your beliefs, is to prove that these "birds" were not "birds" to begin with. That is what you should be doing, but you don't even seem to understand what the point is you are trying to get across.
Um...I just outlined it for you.
Um... no you didn't. I, on the other hand just did.
??????????? That's what I'm asking you!! Do you believe extant flightless birds are in the "bird kind"?
Calm down.
Oh...well then, if you don't care enough about this to discuss it, that's fine. Thanks for your input.
Now, wait a minute... where did I say I didn't care enough about this to discuss it. I have been discussing and discussing and discussing... all along. I just didn't realize that this thread was primarily concerned with beliefs. But perhaps you need to more clearly explain what the purpose of this thread is...
Oh, that's right.. I already asked you to do that... oh well.. B)
Had I said any of that, your post would be relevant. Since I didn't, it isn't.
I know that wasn't directed at me, but....oh the irony! :lol: