Discuss: Hurricanes, mudslides...what the heck? Is God responsible?

[Miss Hepburn]

Because of what I read here the other day... you know who u are....I was wondering what is your take?
I certainly have my take...but I'll hold off cuz this is about all of us...not just me.
Ok, I can' help myself...I never blame God for anything bad!
I actually dont blame much of anything on anything else...if the mice eat up something in my Tuff Shed... I just go, Hmm, next time I won't put something so delicious out there...like anything 'foam'!
I don't get mad at them!

 

[Miss Hepburn]

I think people have strong opinions about this topic...but people have not seen the thread...cuz I hear people blame God for all sorts of things!

 

[Wormwood]

I think the Bible clearly teaches that the chaos, suffering and death in the world is the result of OUR sin. Thus, we are responsible for the suffering, horrors and death in this world, not God. Jesus came to usher in God's Kingdom and God's will. He came to bring light into darkness. The hope we have is that Jesus is the "fix" to this world's suffering because God does not want it this way. When God created the world originally, there were no hurricanes or mudslides. We are to blame, not God.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

I love it!

 

[Triumph1300]

I think the Bible clearly teaches that the chaos, suffering and death in the world is the result of OUR sin. Thus, we are responsible for the suffering, horrors and death in this world, not God. Jesus came to usher in God's Kingdom and God's will. He came to bring light into darkness. The hope we have is that Jesus is the "fix" to this world's suffering because God does not want it this way. When God created the world originally, there were no hurricanes or mudslides. We are to blame, not God.

Yes people are responsible because of sin.
So, the fires and mudslides we blame on sinful people in Calipornia.

 

[Wormwood]

Yes people are responsible because of sin.
So, the fires and mudslides we blame on sinful people in Calipornia.

Not at all what I was saying. Disasters are the result of sin in general, primarily Adam's sin of which we are all affected by and continue in. I am not the judge and neither are you to say that these specific people died because of their specific sin.

I think Jesus warns us of this kind of thinking in Luke 13:1-5. Those who die in these tragedies are no more sinful than any of us. We are all in need of repentance and to think that we live and they died because we are more holy or they are more sinful is a very dangerous perception to have. God alone is judge and we are all called to repent and rely on his mercy and grace.

 

[Triumph1300]

I am not the judge and neither are you to say that these specific people died because of their specific sin.

I'm not judging.
I only posting what I get out of what you posted.
I guess I misunderstood you.

But I DO know that God punished people for disobedient behaviour during Biblical times.
When they repented they were blessed again.

 

[Wormwood]

True. Perhaps some die because of Gods specific judgement on something they did. We don’t know. It is not for us to judge. Only to seek grace and mercy since we all deserve death.

 

[tabletalk]

Yes, I think God is responsible.

Deuteronomy 32: 39. ‘Now see that I, even I, am He,
And there is no God besides Me;
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.
40. For I raise My hand to heaven,
And say, “As I live forever,
41. If I whet My glittering sword,
And My hand takes hold on judgment,
I will render vengeance to My enemies,
And repay those who hate Me.

 

[bbyrd009]

I think people have strong opinions about this topic...but people have not seen the thread...cuz I hear people blame God for all sorts of things!

i just saw this post today, mon morning, been here all day yesterday, looking, too?

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, I think God is responsible.

Deuteronomy 32: 39. ‘Now see that I, even I, am He,
And there is no God besides Me;
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.
40. For I raise My hand to heaven,
And say, “As I live forever,
41. If I whet My glittering sword,
And My hand takes hold on judgment,
I will render vengeance to My enemies,
And repay those who hate Me.

in the sense that God is responsible for everything, yes, but to suggest that God specifically punishes sin runs into other problems imo. Not that strictly speaking it might not even be true, but that "you reap what you sow, you get what you give away" are the mechanisms God employs for this "punishment." imo

 

[bbyrd009]

I think people have strong opinions about this topic...but people have not seen the thread...cuz I hear people blame God for all sorts of things!

i guess bc God set up the natural laws that dictate when you suppress forest fires for generations, you will naturally get conflagrations, and these will predicate mudslides. But "God" did it, lol

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Not at all what I was saying. Disasters are the result of sin in general....

Wormwood, just to say, I knew what you meant...not saying I agree or disagree, but I got your meaning...I kinda thought you also meant by in general...'sin en masse'.
Perhaps when ALL Mankind's heart, thoughts, words and deeds are pure these natural disasters could end? I dunno.
But, pointing fingers and blaming others...even The Creator? Um, nope.....I think He made a brilliant System all around, like, What goes around comes around.

I could have easily have asked in a thread:
"If your car gets dented in a parking lot, do you blame someone or ask yourself,
How did I draw this to me? "
Because as I see it, everything that happens to me personally in my little sphere is because of me, the good the bad and the ugly.
Hurricanes? The thoughts en masse of Man on this planet.
Could I be wrong? Sure.


Added: Good discussion...all views are welcome, imo...thanks.
I think it is a core issue in humans and effects their happiness and connection to our Father.
I do.

 

[Wormwood]

Wormwood, just to say, I knew what you meant...not saying I agree or disagree, but I got your meaning...I kinda thought you also meant by in general...'sin en masse'.
Perhaps when ALL Mankind's heart, thoughts, words and deeds are pure these natural disasters could end? I dunno.
But, pointing fingers and blaming others...even The Creator? Um, nope.....I think He made a brilliant System all around, like, What goes around comes around.

I could have easily have asked in a thread:
"If your car gets dented in a parking lot, do you blame someone or ask yourself,
How did I draw this to me? "
Because as I see it, everything that happens to me personally in my little sphere is because of me, the good the bad and the ugly.
Hurricanes? The thoughts en masse of Man on this planet.
Could I be wrong? Sure.


Added: Good discussion...all views are welcome, imo...thanks.
I think it is a core issue in humans and effects their happiness and connection to our Father.
I do.

Miss Hepburn,

Ahh, gotcha. Well, to answer your question..."when ALL mankind's heart, thoughts, words and deeds are pure these natural disasters could end?" My response would be that 1. Humanity is inherently sinful. Both humans and the world are marred by the effects of sin and so I don't see this as a possibility according to the teaching of the Bible. For instance, I think Romans 7 makes it clear that we have a "sinful nature" (as the NIV, not so accurately, translates it). So, until Christ returns, I don't think humanity will cease their sin. 2. The world is corrupted by sin. When Adam sinned, God cursed the world. The world remains under the bondage of that curse and man's sin. As Romans 8 puts it...

20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

3. As for your thoughts on your car getting dented.... I would also respectfully disagree with this. This sounds a lot like karma. If something bad happens to me, its because I did something and karma is balancing the scales. I think this is an errant way to think, in terms of Biblical teaching. As I see it in the Bible, it is very possible that something bad can happen to you for no specific reason. Just look at Job. He had done nothing to warrant the level of suffering he was experiencing. That is because this is not how sin and evil works. If a child's parents are killed because a drunk driver swerves into their lane, the evil the child experiences is because of the drunk driver's sin. Not because of the parent's sin or the child's sin. That is the thing with evil and sin. It is reckless and not evenly measured. Yet, as Christians, our hope and promise is that whatever we experience in life....dented cars, disease, broken relationships, etc....God can use to form us into the image of Christ if we love him. The world, Satan or others may seek to do us harm, but God can use even the evil of this world for his purposes to bring about a good work in us. I think that is one of the lessons of the cross. The world sought to do harm and evil to Jesus, but for those who love God, even those evil works were used to bring about our deliverance.

Sorry for rambling. This is an important topic and unfortunately I see far too many Christians believing that their struggle, or someone else's is a direct judgment or result of their lack of faith. I think this is a seriously dangerous and unscriptural view. It causes us to continually place judgment on ourselves or others for the trials we or they face. The Apostles suffered more than most of us will ever know. Yet their suffering was often a result of their FAITHFULNESS, not judgment for their sin.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Oh, I wasn't talking about karma.
If a friend thinks over and over that she is going to be robbed and literally is a wreck
wherever she goes for decades...and another friend is happy all the time trusts God and is at peace...I can watch both lives..guess what manifests for the first and then, for the second...is what I mean.

If I think hatred, anger and revenge...I did in my rebellious, off balance 20s, all sorts of things happen to me...like a self fulfilling propecy.
Now, all is good.
I am not one of those that thinks things happen as a judgment or punishment, btw, just to get to know me.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

I thought of another example to show it wasn't about karma in the usual idea
people think of it....but that we reap what we sow.
One person is full of dread and fear going to a job interview.
Another person (same creds and attractiveness, ha) goes to the same interview but,
is a positive, lighthearted, smiling person...who gets the job?
This is what I mean by, "What did I do to draw this to me?"
It may seem as if the dent happened to MY car out of 500, by accident...but, I don't believe in accidents or coincidences...there was a reason....and also, a lesson of insight for me to glean.
No one has to think as I do, but as an observer all my life...this is what I have noticed...
and i'm pretty old now, hahaha!

 

[michaelvpardo]

Because of what I read here the other day... you know who u are....I was wondering what is your take?
I certainly have my take...but I'll hold off cuz this is about all of us...not just me.
Ok, I can' help myself...I never blame God for anything bad!
I actually dont blame much of anything on anything else...if the mice eat up something in my Tuff Shed... I just go, Hmm, next time I won't put something so delicious out there...like anything 'foam'!
I don't get mad at them!

Its a standard theological premise that God is not the author of Evil, but it's also a standard premise repeatedly taught in scripture that God is just and must punish sin. Some people push the concept to the extreme; as a child, whenever I got hurt, my mother would say that God was punishing me (and there were times that could've been true.) In scripture, God authored both blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience upon His Holy people as an example to the world at large. In this age of the gospel, God has offered the free gift of His grace through faith in His Son, but by and large who do people obey? The act of God's justice is called His unusual act, as in its being contrary to His nature of love, but love can't permit wanton destruction, crimes by men against men and against nature, wickedness in all its forms, and so He instituted a system of justice for men through law. However, when law breaks down and ceases to be a restraint, when men become more and more lawless, then God's justice is made manifest at a level above that of men by means of His heavenly ministers of justice which becomes most evident in the days leading to Christ's return. The nature of God's love is even manifest in the restraint He shows in limiting the effects of natural disasters. If people credited Him for such catastrophe and repented of wickedness, wouldn't He "repent" of the judgments He brings? The scripture shows that He's done so in the past and tells us that God does not change. Unfortunately, in our imagined sophistication, we attribute natural disasters to anything but God and so we welcome destruction.