Discussion vs. Debate

[aspen]

Is it ok to discuss different perspectives on the truth of the scriptures? Seems to me that discussion promotes growth and learning.

Debate seems like an argument about who can declare the truth the loudest - when the gloves come off, sarcasm, name calling, and ego come into play. Debate has its place, I suppose - if you are dealing with an atheist or someone who is trying to discredit your faith, but is it necessary or helpful when talking about truth with another believer?

I think sharing different perspectives on the truth helps us grow in our faith - I think reiterating the same ideas about the same verses and doctrine is boring and does nothing to promote growth. The true needs no defense, but it does need to be discussed and shared and talked about.

 

[7angels]

it is when one person's truth meets another person's truth that debate comes into play. there can be different meanings for the same verse of scripture. for have any of you ever read the Word over and over again and then one day you are reading that same verse when something about it leaps off the page at you? old testament s the most difficult to is my opinion due to all the symbolism and type and shadows.

according to the Word we are not to argue ever. if you ever feel that a point is starting to turn into an argument then the best thing to do is to either talking or find another way to go at it so it does not turn into an argument..

God bless

 

[aspen]

it is when one person's truth meets another person's truth that debate comes into play. there can be different meanings for the same verse of scripture. for have any of you ever read the Word over and over again and then one day you are reading that same verse when something about it leaps off the page at you? old testament s the most difficult to is my opinion due to all the symbolism and type and shadows.

according to the Word we are not to argue ever. if you ever feel that a point is starting to turn into an argument then the best thing to do is to either talking or find another way to go at it so it does not turn into an argument..

God bless

I agree - and yet I fall into arguments.

I am glad discussions are important to you as well.

 

[biggandyy]

it is when one person's truth meets another person's truth...

Sorry, that is an impossibility. There is only one truth, by definition of the term truth.

There can be debates between two opinions, between opinion and truth, but never between to opposite truths. That is Averroism, condemned by the church in 1277, and was also opposed by Aquinas. Some consider Averroism the starting point of secularism in the western world (a'la Spinoza and others).

 

[aspen]

Sorry, that is an impossibility. There is only one truth, by definition of the term truth.

There can be debates between two opinions, between opinion and truth, but never between to opposite truths. That is Averroism, condemned by the church in 1277, and was also opposed by Aquinas. Some consider Averroism the starting point of secularism in the western world (a'la Spinoza and others).

I reject relativism. I believe in absolute truth, but I often believe it is much broader than we realize. Discussion often uncovers more of the truth

 

[7angels]

Sorry, that is an impossibility. There is only one truth, by definition of the term truth.

There can be debates between two opinions, between opinion and truth, but never between to opposite truths. That is Averroism, condemned by the church in 1277, and was also opposed by Aquinas. Some consider Averroism the starting point of secularism in the western world (a'la Spinoza and others).

why is it so hard to accept that there are many kinds of truth. what a person grows up learning becomes truth to them until they are able to discern otherwise. for example if a person is taught all their life from when they were a child until they grew up that a fire is not hot then what what do you think they will believe every time they see a fire. until that person touches fire or gets near a fire they will believe that a fire is not hot at all. that is their truth. people think that is it impossible to believe this way but it is not. a person can believe a lie as truth if they keep telling themselves it is true. this is one reason they are trying to get rid of the lie detector in the state of new york because they have found that if a person believes a lie long enough they will come to believe it.

we need to learn to respect everyone's truth and just tell they what God's word says and then pray and let God do his job of bringing that person to the light. it is when one person tries to win that feelings get hurt. Love cares not who wins and yet we see people ripping on others tearing them down, and ect. this is not Love that is being practiced but choas. and choas is not of God's kingdom because God's kingdom is organized so it must be of the devil's kingdom.

God bless

 

[Hollyrock]

Is it ok to discuss different perspectives on the truth of the scriptures? Seems to me that discussion promotes growth and learning.

Debate seems like an argument about who can declare the truth the loudest - when the gloves come off, sarcasm, name calling, and ego come into play. Debate has its place, I suppose - if you are dealing with an atheist or someone who is trying to discredit your faith, but is it necessary or helpful when talking about truth with another believer?

I think sharing different perspectives on the truth helps us grow in our faith - I think reiterating the same ideas about the same verses and doctrine is boring and does nothing to promote growth. The true needs no defense, but it does need to be discussed and shared and talked about.

I

Is it ok to discuss different perspectives on the truth of the scriptures? Seems to me that discussion promotes growth and learning.

Debate seems like an argument about who can declare the truth the loudest - when the gloves come off, sarcasm, name calling, and ego come into play. Debate has its place, I suppose - if you are dealing with an atheist or someone who is trying to discredit your faith, but is it necessary or helpful when talking about truth with another believer?

I think sharing different perspectives on the truth helps us grow in our faith - I think reiterating the same ideas about the same verses and doctrine is boring and does nothing to promote growth. The true needs no defense, but it does need to be discussed and shared and talked about.

I am so glad that you brought this up because there is way too many debates, arguments, and quarrels on this board. Many times, I don't even read replies to my posts because it is filled with arguments and inappropriate comments. We are not supposed to be commuicating this way but rather with love, grace, and respect. This board is a place to reflect God's love, God's truth, and the mind of Christ. It should be an atmosphere of respectful discussions and disagreements...I believe pride and ego is a strategic plan of the enemy to divide us, so my prayer is that we repent and start behaving like the children of God that we are.

 

[biggandyy]

why is it so hard to accept that there are many kinds of truth.

Because the definition of the word truth simply forbids it.

what a person grows up learning becomes truth to them until they are able to discern otherwise.

What you are describing is opinion. Just because there is a paucity of evidence to refute an sincerely held opinion, that does not automatically elevate a notion to truth. For the intellectually lazy or uncaring, any opinion will suffice as "truth", but they no more have hold of truth than they can hold mercury in the grasp of their fist.

Truth is an important word, lest Jesus would have said, "I speak my opinion to you" rather than, "I speak the truth to you."

for example if a person is taught all their life from when they were a child until they grew up that a fire is not hot then what what do you think they will believe every time they see a fire. until that person touches fire or gets near a fire they will believe that a fire is not hot at all. that is their truth.

No, it is not "their truth". It is their opinion they hold mistakenly as truth but as soon as they touch the flames they are burned.

Just as a federal agent tasked with identifying counterfeit currency is taught not with false currency. He is given the genuine currency to inspect, test, measure, study, for weeks and months on end. If only we held the concept of truth in as high a regard.

people think that is it impossible to believe this way but it is not.

It's not impossible, just intellectually lazy. Just as crass skepticism is a masquerade of critical thinking, so is equivocation on truth equally a masquerade of thoughtfulness.

a person can believe a lie as truth if they keep telling themselves it is true.

That does not elevate the lie to truth status.

this is one reason they are trying to get rid of the lie detector in the state of new york because they have found that if a person believes a lie long enough they will come to believe it.

They haven't invented a stupid detector yet so keep the lie detector for now.

The rest was just pablum.

 

[aspen]

Declaring your opinion on truth, as actual truth, is always an exercise in pride. On the contrary, participating in a discussion - asking questions - learning from each other requires a certain amount of vulnerability. I believe discussions are an exercise in vulnerability - which is important because it is the foundation of perspective taking - sympathy, empathy, love, forgiveness, and finally, unconditional love - all the skills of our redemption.

Therefore, participation in a discussion is practicing our sanctification.

 

[Hollyrock]

Jesus is the way, the TRUTH, and the life...period

 

[aspen]

Jesus is the way, the TRUTH, and the life...period

I agree. So what do you think it means?

 

[Hollyrock]

aspen2...it means that anything that cannot stand up against God's Word is not the truth

 

[biggandyy]

Gravity, is that truth or not? It certainly is not explicitly in the Bible. So you consider that opinion? Jump off a tall building and tell me how that works out for you.

On a serious note, HR, you are missing the point entirely. We are talking the concept of the word truth, not any Biblical or moral implications beyond it's definition.

 

[Hollyrock]

Gravity, is that truth or not? It certainly is not explicitly in the Bible. So you consider that opinion? Jump off a tall building and tell me how that works out for you.

On a serious note, HR, you are missing the point entirely. We are talking the concept of the word truth, not any Biblical or moral implications beyond it's definition.

Carry on then :)

 

[Thomas Kelly guessed]

aspen2,

You may agree that to learn about Jesus's sayings a person may need some knowledge and wisdom of an early church father, an example may be John Chrysostom of about 4th century A.D. You may read from a link below an explanation of Sermon on the Mount of Matthew 5. 1,2. until the end of Matthew 7. 28.

Part of.

Homily XV.

Matt. V. 1, 2.

“And Jesus seeing the multitudes went up into the mountain, and when He was set, His disciples came unto Him. And He opened His mouth, and taught them saying, Blessed,” etc.
See how unambitious He was, and void of boasting: in that He did not lead people about with Him, but whereas, when healing was required, He had Himself gone about everywhere, visiting both towns and country places; now when the multitude is become very great, He sits in one spot: and that not in the midst of any city or forum, but on a mountain and in a wilderness; instructing us to do nothing for display, and to separate ourselves from the tumults of ordinary life, and this most especially, when we are to study wisdom, and to discourse of things needful to be done.

http://www.ccel.org/...110.iii.XV.html

 

[Episkopos]

Are we debating or discussing? ;)

 

[Strat]

Ambiguity and duplicity are the exclusive domain of the wicked and deceitful..believing in nothing they argue for and against everything and can most often be found defending sensuality and hedonism in all its forms.

 

[aspen]

Legalism and love of self over God and others is the exclusive domain of the Pharisee and Narcissist.....believing that people were created for the law, they argue against everyone that live outside their mindset and can most often be found demanding the application of arcane cultural norms rather than promoting the transformation of the heart and mind.

 

[Strat]

Legalism and love of self over God and others is the exclusive domain of the Pharisee and Narcissist.....believing that people were created for the law, they argue against everyone that live outside their mindset and can most often be found demanding the application of arcane cultural norms rather than promoting the transformation of the heart and mind.

Again you display your complete ignorance of the bible and christianity,the law existed before people ever did and it was the breaking of that law that brought sin and death into the world and it was the restoration of that law in a God's son who obeyed that law flawlessly that brought redemption of our fallen condition....we because of our sin nature cannot obey the law perfectly but because it was obeyed perfectly by Jesus we can be saved...it is the height of wickedness to hold that law in contempt.

How foolish it is to on one hand claim to want to be more like Jesus who kept the law perfectly and on the other hand show such contempt for that law..."Legalism" says the law saves and i have never advocated that so you are bearing false witness.

The work of Jesus and faith is what saves...what you are is lawless,you have contempt for the law of God which is why truth and deoctrine mean nothing to you and you try to excuse your heresy and lies with a sappy spineless "love" that has nothing to do with the love of God and everything to do with the wide easy path to Hell....you also make idiotic comparisons like comparing arcane cultural norms and sin...cultural norms are man's laws carrying little if any signifigance while sin is the breaking of the only laws that matter....fact is you hate anything that calls your reprobate heart to account....please dust off your bible if you own one and read some of it before posting such ignorance.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

aspen2 - I am going to agree with you .... you have it exactly right ....

I am a mature Christian ...... one who likes discussion ..... and at times I learn from it ..... sometimes I have to eat a bit of pride ... and modify my thinking (beleifs) ... and learn from it.

I feel that should be the purpose of all bible study and bible discussions.

However Christianity has more than it's fair share of folks who are not scholars ..... but defend pet doctrines as though they are beyond question. Their minds are slammed shut either out of insecurity , or brainwash , weak faith, or denominational influences.

It seems to be an exercise in futility to have them consider anything outside what they firmly beleive.

I was the very same as a young Christian many years ago ..... I would read my bible and mistakenly apply teachings and powers and gifts and ministries designated for The 12 Apostles ..... then assume it was meant for me as well.

I am not one of the 12 .... rather I am one who is the recipient of the teachings of the 12 .... I am a beleiver .... that is my function.

These mistakes and errors will not keep us out of Heaven ..... but they sure cause division and friction within the Christian community. I wish it were not so.

Thanks
Arnie