Dispensationalism is it Scriptural?

[bbyrd009]

‘And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
but he that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man which is in heaven.’
(John 3:13)

Hello @bbyrd009 ,

- It wasn't intended to refute anything.
- The verse you quote from John, does not say that Christ is the only one who will ever go into heaven. He is the only one who has done so, but the blessings of the Church of the One Body are to be fully enjoyed in heavenly places in Christ Jesus according to Ephesians chapter rwo.

‘And hath raised us up together,
and made us sit together
in heavenly places
in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come He might shew
the exceeding riches of His grace
in His kindness toward us
through Christ Jesus.’
(Eph 2:6-7)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

yes, which is why we pray "on earth as it is in heaven," not "i can't wait to die and go to heaven."
well, theoretically anyway. See "heavenly places" should accompany "the kingdom within you,"
and not be defined by wolves following Roman Emperors, anxious for you to leave the earth to them and go about believing that you might follow Jesus off the planet somewhere that does not even exist as a place. It's right there in "That in the ages to come," if you can see it.

 

[bbyrd009]

The verse you quote from John, does not say that Christ is the only one who will ever go into heaven.

so you say, but i think i'll stick with what It says, "No one has ever gone..."
for now anyway

 

[Helen]

so you say, but i think i'll stick with what It says, "No one has ever gone..."
for now anyway

Well that I have to agree with.
I too do not believe anyone has entered the heaven of heaven or the throne room ...yet..except the man Christ Jesus.

Others, I believe who have gone before are 'in heaven' but not the heaven of heaven where God dwells.
( and yes, before you say it...He dwells in us, through His Spirit too..He is everywhere...even the lowest hell , as K.David said. )

 

[charity]

@Willie T

Prevent = was an old English word in some earlier AKJV meaning "going before".
John 20 the two disciples ran to the empty tomb...my first bible said " John prevented Peter..."

It means John out ran Peter and went in first.
These days "prevent" has been changed and the word no longer used.

'So they ran both together:
and the other disciple did outrun Peter,
and came first to the sepulchre.'
(John 20:4)

Hello @ByGrace,

Can you please tell me what the word Willie T was inquiring about, which led to your explanation? I looked up the verse you referred to, as you can see (above). and see that the word, 'outrun' is used there, but not knowing what Willie intended, I can't join the dots.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

yes, which is why we pray "on earth as it is in heaven," not "i can't wait to die and go to heaven."
well, theoretically anyway. See "heavenly places" should accompany "the kingdom within you,"
and not be defined by wolves following Roman Emperors, anxious for you to leave the earth to them and go about believing that you might follow Jesus off the planet somewhere that does not even exist as a place. It's right there in "That in the ages to come," if you can see it.

'And when He was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come,
He answered them and said,
"The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there!
for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
And He said unto the disciples,
"The days will come,
when ye shall desire to see
one of the days of the Son of man,
and ye shall not see it. ... '
(Luke 17:20-22)

Hello @bbyrd009,

- The Lord Jesus did not say that the kingdom of God is within us. In Luke 17 He was talking to the Pharisees, and He was telling them that the Kingdom of God was indeed among them, for He, their King, was in their company, it was He Who was talking to them. Their Messiah was come among them, but they were blind to it. The days would come when they would desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but it would not be possible, for He would no longer be among them.

- Re. the words, 'The ages to come' (Eph. 2:6-7), they mean what they say.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[bbyrd009]

"
Roman totalitarianism believes that if only everything is described by laws and all individual freedom is curtailed, all behavior checked and all human endeavor designed by bosses, paradise commences. The gospel teaches that personal freedom is every person's birthright, that personal freedom is required to both approach the Creator and bring out the intended divine nature of man, that Christ typically puts an end to all authority and dominion (1 Corinthians 15:24) and that paradise starts where people love their enemies and their neighbors as themselves, with a love that surpasses all knowledge (Ephesians 3:19).

Since the perpetuation of Roman Imperial Theology (human enslavement) depended then as much as now on people's ignorance about the gospel (human freedom), the Romans tried very hard to suppress and even demonize it. That means that all writings preserved in the New Testament are in fact highly controversial resistance communiqués, and are mostly written in a kind of code (read our article on Onesimus for more on this). Popular church history usually insists that in the fourth century AD emperor Constantine converted himself and the Roman Empire to the teachings of Jesus, but he did no such thing. In stead, he masterfully deflated a detrimental resistance movement that had been duly illegal for longer a time than exists between us and Benjamin Franklin, by grafting its key phrases onto the stem and structure of the signature Roman cult of Sol Invictus.

The resulting Constantinian Christendom was the theological equivalent of a sugar doused chemistry set with "Nutritious Health Bar" stamped on its label..." The amazing name Pilate: meaning and etymology

 

[bbyrd009]

- The Lord Jesus did not say that the kingdom of God is within us. In Luke 17 He was talking to the Pharisees, and He was telling them that the Kingdom of God was indeed among them, for He, their King, was in their company, it was He Who was talking to them. Their Messiah was come among them, but they were blind to it. The days would come when they would desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but it would not be possible, for He would no longer be among them.

um, wouldn't that be the arg for "the kingdom is beside you?"
strikes me as really pushing it at "within you" charity, fwiw
anyway, i'll pass on this too, ty, but you may certainly interpret as seems best to you ok

 

[Willie T]

'So they ran both together:
and the other disciple did outrun Peter,
and came first to the sepulchre.'
(John 20:4)

Hello @ByGrace,

Can you please tell me what the word Willie T was inquiring about, which led to your explanation? I looked up the verse you referred to, as you can see (above). and see that the word, 'outrun' is used there, but not knowing what Willie intended, I can't join the dots.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Go back to the post I made, and open up the "QUOTED" section at the top. The word I asked about is in RED.

 

[bbyrd009]

strikes me as really pushing it at "within you" charity, fwiw

i guess if the "you" there was plural, maybe...the kingdom of God is within you

- The Lord Jesus did not say that the kingdom of God is within us.

i know we were taught this in church, yes, and that "you" is plural, so it could be interpreted that way, but you will run into probs with other Scripture in that interp, i guess. i suggest that one at least contemplate the double meaning there, and suspect the definition provided by any Established church; especially if it leads to the cult of Sol, as you are inferring wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

for He would no longer be among them.

Christ is made into something observable there, see, so the spirit of the verse is not adhered to imo.
Jesus is using a play on words, while at the same time telling the truth right out in the open, so that it cannot be seen.
I'm pretty sure we have a lot of other Scripture for "the kingdom is within you," that does not require the bodily presence of Christ.
I'll sleep on it and post some tomorrow

 

[bbyrd009]

The days would come when they would desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but it would not be possible, for He would no longer be among them.

"I will never leave you nor forsake you"

 

[Helen]

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, (Gal. 1:11,12)
.. that we which are alive and remain
.... unto the coming of the Lord
...... shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Hi Charity..
Willie T was asking about the old English archaic word PREVENT ...made bold and in red above in your quote.

It has been dropped in most KJV...but in my old AKJV that I have for years...it uses Prevent as in meaning "before".

You will find both your post and his post at yours= #149 and his post= #150
He made the word PREVENT both big, bold, and red.


I just used the story of the tomb, as an illustration of how AKJV use to use it.

Helen

 

[Helen]

@Willie T
I didn't know that you had answered her...so I answered her question to me..
, so now we have both answered her , re the word "prevent".

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Hello @bbyrd009,

The new heaven and the new earth will be inhabited, by the 'callings' assigned to them.

- Redeemed Israel will inhabit the new earth.
- The New Jerusalem, the Holy City, called 'The Bride', will come down out of heaven to the New earth, and will be inhabited by those who had like faith as that of Abraham, who looked for a city whose builder and maker is God. The believing remnant of Israel, and the Overcomers of Revelation.
- Heavenly Places will be inhabited by the members of the Church of the One Body, the One New Man of Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Redeemed Israel ? Jesus Christ is the King of Israel, so that means Christians.

 

[charity]

Redeemed Israel ? Jesus Christ is the King of Israel, so that means Christians.

Hello @Reggie Belafonte,

Israel as a nation

'And so all Israel shall be saved:
as it is written,
'There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is My covenant unto them,
when I shall take away their sins.''
(Rom 11:26-27)

' ... ... my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Who are Israelites;
.. to whom pertaineth the adoption,
.... and the glory,
...... and the covenants,
........ and the giving of the law,
.......... and the service of God,
............ and the promises;
Whose are the fathers,
.. and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came,
.. Who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.'
(Rom 9:3b-5)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

"I will never leave you nor forsake you"

Hello again, @bbyrd009

Thank you for your responses,

Yes, @bbyrd009, the Lord Jesus was with them in spirit following His ascension to God's right hand, but not bodily. Whereas it is His bodily presence that is being referred to in Luke 17:20-22, isn't it?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Hello @Harvest 1874

Not being able to sleep tonight, I have been reading through your posts throughout the thread, and have enjoyed your clarity: but forgive me, for I have to ask you directly if you are a Universalist? You appear to be so, for you maintain that 'all' will be saved.

Also, you say that you are not affiliated to any denomination or body of people, but you speak in terms of 'we': 'we' being 'Bible students' like yourself I have presumed, yet, you must be part of a body of like-minded people, to be able to speak so confidently in terms of 'we'.

I am wary, for I am drawn to your clarity, but I do not believe that it is the testimony of scripture that 'all' will be saved, and recent exchanges reveal differences in our understanding.

This is sad, for I feel you have much to offer, but when I get alarm signals sounding, I generally retreat, and go back to, 'my Bible and me,' in isolation. I too am not affiliated to any denomination, or company of people, though my influence has been the written and audio ministry of the 'Berean Publishing Trust', in London, through such writers as Dr E.W. Bullinger, Mr Charles Welch, and Mr Stuart Allen, to which I owe a debt of gratitude.

Thankfully, we are all God's workmanship,
Praise His Name!
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Willie T]

Hello @Harvest 1874

Not being able to sleep tonight, I have been reading through your posts throughout the thread, and have enjoyed your clarity: but forgive me, for I have to ask you directly if you are a Universalist? You appear to be so, for you maintain that 'all' will be saved.

Also, you say that you are not affiliated to any denomination or body of people, but you speak in terms of 'we': 'we' being 'Bible students' like yourself I have presumed, yet, you must be part of a body of like-minded people, to be able to speak so confidently in terms of 'we'.

I am wary, for I am drawn to your clarity, but I do not believe that it is the testimony of scripture that 'all' will be saved, and recent exchanges reveal differences in our understanding.

This is sad, for I feel you have much to offer, but when I get alarm signals sounding, I generally retreat, and go back to, 'my Bible and me,' in isolation. I too am not affiliated to any denomination, or company of people, though my influence has been the written and audio ministry of the 'Berean Publishing Trust', in London, through such writers as Dr E.W. Bullinger, Mr Charles Welch, and Mr Stuart Allen, to which I owe a debt of gratitude.

Thankfully, we are all God's workmanship,
Praise His Name!
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Am I black-balled too, because I see it as about a 5 to 1 ratio, Christians to Unbelievers?

 

[charity]

Am I black-balled too, because I see it as about a 5 to 1 ratio, Christians to Unbelievers?

Hello @Willie T ,

I had no idea what you meant by 'blackballing', and had to look it up. If that is what I have done, then I apologize to @Harvest 1874.

I know what it is like to feel marginalised, but it is inevitable that if you hold opinions that do not conform to the traditional norm, you will be.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Stranger]

Hello @Willie T ,

I had no idea what you meant by 'blackballing', and had to look it up. If that is what I have done, then I apologize to @Harvest 1874.

I know what it is like to feel marginalised, but it is inevitable that if you hold opinions that do not conform to the traditional norm, you will be.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

You haven't blackballed anyone. You are wise to listen to your alarm signals.

Stranger