Dispensationalism is it Scriptural?

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Harvest 1874

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Hello @bbryd009,

2) There is more than one gospel recorded in Scripture.
- 'The Everlasting gospel' (Revelation 14:4)
- 'The Gospel of the Kingdom' (Luke 8:1)
- 'The Gospel of God' (Romans 1:1)
- 'The Gospel of the Grace of God' (Acts 20:24)
- 'The Gospel of the Glory of Christ' (2 Corinthians 4:4)
* What these separate titles refer to is a matter for personal study.

Chris

With this my sister (in the household of faith) we have to disagree, there is no more than one gospel preached in the scriptures, the list which you present simply refers to the various aspects of the one true gospel. As you mentioned they are simply “titles” referring to the same thing.

When the shepherds were in the field and the angle of the Lord appeared to them saying, “Behold I bring you good tidings (good news: the gospel message) of great joy which will be to all people.” (Luke 2:9) he brought them the one and only eternal gospel, the “everlasting gospel” (Rev 14:6) thus implying no need for any other. The angle said nothing about another gospel to be delivered.

There are indeed other gospels (messages); some of these are far from being considered “good news” to the vast majority of mankind especially those which speak of eternal torment as the wages of sin. These are such which the Apostle Paul designated as a “different gospel,” or “another gospel”, (Gal 1:6, 7) but as he said in truth, “is not another gospel”, for there can be but one.

As the Lord sent forth his servants to preach the one true gospel, so too Satan sends his ministers preaching "another gospel" and "perverting the gospel of Christ."

"If any man teaches otherwise withdraw thyself." (1 Tim. 6:3) Do not lend support to another Gospel other than the one you have received. "The faith first delivered to the Saints."
 
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charity

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With this my sister (in the household of faith) we have to disagree, there is no more than one gospel preached in the scriptures, the list which you present simply refers to the various aspects of the one true gospel. As you mentioned they are simply “titles” referring to the same thing.

When the shepherds were in the field and the angle of the Lord appeared to them saying, “Behold I bring you good tidings (good news: the gospel message) of great joy which will be to all people.” (Luke 2:9) he brought them the one and only eternal gospel, the “everlasting gospel” (Rev 14:6) thus implying no need for any other. The angle said nothing about another gospel to be delivered.

There are indeed other gospels (messages); some of these are far from being considered “good news” to the vast majority of mankind especially those which speak of eternal torment as the wages of sin. These are such which the Apostle Paul designated as a “different gospel,” or “another gospel”, (Gal 1:6, 7) but as he said in truth, “is not another gospel”, for there can be but one.

As the Lord sent forth his servants to preach the one true gospel, so too Satan sends his ministers preaching "another gospel" and "perverting the gospel of Christ."

"If any man teaches otherwise withdraw thyself." (1 Tim. 6:3) Do not lend support to another Gospel other than the one you have received. "The faith first delivered to the Saints."

Hello @Harvest 1874
Re. the gospel of the Kingdom and other gospels, please see the link below. It will take you to the Companion Bible Index, in which there are notes on this subject, which I hope you will take a look at.

The Gospel of the Kingdom and Other Gospels - Appendix to the Companion Bible

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
 

Willie T

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Does this mean we also have a bunch of different Gods?

  • Jehovah - The Lord - Exodus 6:2-3
  • Jehovah-Adon Kal Ha'arets- Lord of Earth - Josh 3:13
  • Jehovah-Bara - Lord Creator - Isaiah 40:28
  • Jehovah-Chatsahi - Lord my Strength - Psalm 27:1
  • Jehovah-Chereb - Lord the Sword - Deut. 33:29
  • Jehovah-Eli - Lord my God - Psalm 18:2
  • Jehovah-Elyon - Lord Most High - Psalm 38:2
  • Jehovah-Gador Milchamah - Mighty in Battle - Ps 24:8
  • Jehovah-Ganan - Lord Our Defense - Ps 89:18
  • Jehovah-Go'el - Lord My Redeemer - Is. 49:26, 60:16
  • Jehovah-Hamelech - Lord King - Psalm 98:6
  • Jehovah-Hashopet - Lord My Judge - Judges 11:27
  • Jehovah-Helech 'Olam - Lord King Forever Ps10:16
  • Jehovah-Hoshe'ah - Lord Saves - Psalm 20:9
  • Jehovah-Jireh - Provider - Gen. 22:14, I John 4:9, Philip 4:19
  • Jehovah-Kabodhi - Lord my Glory - Psalm 3:3
  • Jehovah-Kanna - Lord Jealous - Ex 34:14
  • Jehovah-Keren-Yish'i - Horn of Salvation - Ps 18:2
  • Jehovah-M'Kaddesh - Sanctifier - I Corinthians 1:30
  • Jehovah-Machsi - Lord my Refuge - Psalm 91:9
  • Jehovah-Magen - Lord my Shield - Deut. 33:29
  • Jehovah-Ma'oz - Lord my Fortress - Jer. 16:19
  • Jehovah-Mephalti - Lord my Deliverer - Psalm 18:2
  • Jehovah-Metshodhathi - Lord my Fortress - Psalm 18:2
  • Jehovah-Misqabbi - Lord my High Tower - Psalm 18:2
  • Jehovah-M'gaddishcem - Lord my Sanctifier - Ex 31:13
  • Jehovah-Naheh - Lord who Smites - Ezekiel 7:9
  • Jehovah-Nissi - Banner - I Chronicles 29:11-13
  • Jehovah-Rohi - Shepherd - Psalm 23
  • Jehovah-Rophe - Healer - Isaiah 53:4,5
  • Jehovah-Sabaoth - Lord of Hosts - I Sam 1:3
  • Jehovah-Sel'i - Lord my Rock - Psalm 18:2
  • Jehovah-Shalom - Peace - Isaiah 9:6, Rom 8:31-35
  • Jehovah-Shammah - Present - Hebrews 13:5
  • Jehovah-Tsidkenu - Righteousness - I Cor 1:30
  • Jehovah-Tsori - Lord my Strength - Psalm 19:14
  • Jehovah-Yasha - Lord my Savior - Isaiah 49:26
  • Jehovah-'Ez-Lami - Lord my Strength - Ps 28:7
  • Jehovah-'Immeku - Lord Is With You - Judges 6:12
  • Jehovah-'Izoa Hakaboth - Lord Strong -Mighty - Ps 24:8
  • Jehovah-'Ori - Lord my Light - Psalm 27:1
  • Jehovah-'Uzam - Lord Strength in Trouble - Is 49:26
 
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Harvest 1874

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Hello @Harvest 1874
Re. the gospel of the Kingdom and other gospels, please see the link below. It will take you to the Companion Bible Index, in which there are notes on this subject, which I hope you will take a look at.

The Gospel of the Kingdom and Other Gospels - Appendix to the Companion Bible

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

As we had stated we believe this list which you present represents different aspects of the one and only true gospel.

You will note that even in the article you provided the writer admits this when he states in reference to the "The Gospel of God": "This is the Gospel unto which Paul the Apostle was separated (Rom. 1:1), and is supplementary to "the Gospel of the Kingdom", of which it was another aspect.

In Isa 9:6 a list of the titles are given to our Lord, "His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, mighty
God, Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace
." Else where he is also referred to as the Advocate, the Mediator are we to suppose that each of these titles refers to a different Lord, heavens no! we understand them merely to reflect different aspects of the various offices he fulfills.

Willie's suggestion likewise presents the same point only in regards to the Father.
 

DAH

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With this my sister (in the household of faith) we have to disagree, there is no more than one gospel preached in the scriptures, the list which you present simply refers to the various aspects of the one true gospel. As you mentioned they are simply “titles” referring to the same thing.

When the shepherds were in the field and the angle of the Lord appeared to them saying, “Behold I bring you good tidings (good news: the gospel message) of great joy which will be to all people.” (Luke 2:9) he brought them the one and only eternal gospel, the “everlasting gospel” (Rev 14:6) thus implying no need for any other. The angle said nothing about another gospel to be delivered.

There are indeed other gospels (messages); some of these are far from being considered “good news” to the vast majority of mankind especially those which speak of eternal torment as the wages of sin. These are such which the Apostle Paul designated as a “different gospel,” or “another gospel”, (Gal 1:6, 7) but as he said in truth, “is not another gospel”, for there can be but one.

As the Lord sent forth his servants to preach the one true gospel, so too Satan sends his ministers preaching "another gospel" and "perverting the gospel of Christ."

"If any man teaches otherwise withdraw thyself." (1 Tim. 6:3) Do not lend support to another Gospel other than the one you have received. "The faith first delivered to the Saints."


Do you do all that Jesus commanded in the Gospel of the Kingdom the 12 were instructed to spread to all of Jerusalem / Israel?

Do you forgive all men - is there anyone in your life you've never gone back and forgiven? If not, the Kingdom Gospel says your father will not forgive you. So, are we forgiven of all sins or not in the Gospel of Grace?

Must you endure until the end, at which time your sins are blotted out - or are they all forgiven as soon as your are baptized by the Spirit and sealed?

Are you or any Christian spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom healing the sick, cleansing lepers, raising the dead, casting out devils? Or - as Paul learned directly from God when he prayed three times for healing...His Grace is sufficient?

Have you been angry with your brother - if so, you are in danger of judgement under the Kingdom Gospel...

OR - "Whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council." Okay - RACA RACA RACE - nope, no council danger....that's because we are under the Gospel of Grace - not Kingdom Gospel. Different Gospel's - Different audience, Different program.

How about this - "whosoever shal say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." YET Paul, sure enough, said some folks were fools in Gal 3:1-3

I've never seen this in any church, 5:24 - how about you?

Matthew 5:24
(KJV Strong's)
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Or...Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that borrow of the turn not thou away (Matt 5:24, Luke 6:30) - okay - since we are all following the letters in red - how about you write me a check for $25K ???

Have you given everything away to the poor? No? Then you don't get any treasure in Heaven....thems the Red Words - right from the Boss. Mark 10:21

Seems like folks rather spiritualize Jesus' instructions to the 12 - take the promises and leave the hard stuff / curses behind. Rather, it would be intellectually more honest to realize those words were for Israel - headed into the Kingdom to come on earth. When Israel turned their back on the Gospel - the Spirit left Israel and began a new program - the Mystery Gospel the Gospel of Grace.

God often changes instructions - but NOT his character. Luke 9:3 they are instructed not to bring anything with them, including money. Yet Luke 22:36 says - But now....bring money with you.

Where many who cast stones at dispensational thought go wrong, is to make a blanket statement without knowing the details. The Mystery revealed by Christ to Paul is NOT that gentiles would be saved - that's been the plan since Genesis, but HOW they would be saved is what's revealed in the Mystery. Gentiles were no longer required to go through Israel to receive blessings - that wall was torn down, and we all received a way to go directly to God for forgiveness - no Israel required (as Cornelius and the Centurion did - they went through Israel).

Look closely at Peter's interaction with Cornelius. Peter knocks at the door and tells Cornelius he has no idea why he sent there - he says that twice in Acts 10. He didn't get the message that it was okay to talk to a gentile until the day before he went to Cornelius - that's a chapter after Paul get's the nod to go the Gentiles - in real time, that's years later. Peter didn't get the memo from Titus 3, where it's okay to eat anything he wants - dietary laws are no more. Peter had to get that message pounded into his head three times in Acts - then he still doubted! Peter had not been teaching the Gospel of Grace to anyone. He had not been going to gentiles prior to Cornelius - gentiles' only shot at eternal life prior to the Gospel revealed to Paul, was to go through Israel...two Gospels.

There are no "various aspects" of other gospels in the Gospel of Grace - I didn't build a synagogue or give alms to the Jewish community, or any other works in order to earn favor to receive forgiveness. I went through the Gospel of Grace - 1 Cor 15:1-4.

Peter said works & fear is required for God's acceptance in Acts 10:
Acts 10:35
(KJV Strong's)
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Paul said in Titus 3 the complete opposite - a different Gospel - no similar aspects there:

Titus 3:5
(KJV Strong's)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Opposite - no similar aspects there
 
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charity

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Thank you, @Harvest 1874, for taking the time to read the Companion Bible index, and for your response. However, I must agree with @DAH on this point.

Paul referred to the gospel he preached as, 'my gospel' in Romans 2:16: which he acknowledged as 'the gospel of God', and 'the gospel of Christ'. He received his gospel, not from men, but from the ascended, glorified Lord Himself, by revelation (Gal.1:11,12). His ministry altered when Israel was laid aside (temporarily) at the end of the Acts period, when he had a further revelation, and was appointed 'Steward' of the dispensation of the mystery concerning 'The Church of the One Body', 'The One New Man', which he made known in the prison epistles of Ephesians, Philippians and Colossions. The promise by the Lord to Him of further revelation he refers to in his defence before Agrippa in Acts 26:16, when recounting his conversion,

'But rise, and stand upon thy feet:
for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
to make thee a minister and a witness
both of these things which thou hast seen,
and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; ...'

Also during his meeting with the Ephesian elders in Acts 20, he said that he had ministered unto them 'the whole council of God', which he himself had received, this he itemizes, but he does not include the truth concerning 'The Mystery', for that was the subject of a further revelation of 'the council of God' yet to be revealed to Him.

So, 'the good news' (gospel) given by Paul was subject to change, as one dispensation gave way to another during his ministry (Acts 28), and further Divine revelation given.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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DAH

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H

God Himself does not change, but his dealings with men throughout time have always changed…. there are clearly different messages, different paths to God, directives, etc. throughout man's history with God. Never prior to the revelation of the Mystery to Paul, kept hidden since the world began (no difficult interpretation needed there) did the gentile nations have a way to God without going through Israel....Never. A map to gentile salvation has been in the scripture since Genesis. The Mystery is not that gentiles received salvation, it is HOW. It is the Gospel of the Grace that came after the fall of Israel that changed how the gentile gains salvation - Grace by Faith with No Works - no path through Israel required. You can't read the Bible backwards and find places to insert the cross or the current gentile salvation plan - it was hidden - unsearchable.

· What God told Adam, he did not tell to Noah
· What God told Noah, he did not tell Abraham
· What God told Abraham, he did not tell Moses
· What God told Moses, he did not tell David
· What God told David, he did not tell John the Baptist
· What God told John the Baptist, he did not tell Peter
· What God told Peter, he did not tell Paul

We currently live in an age with directions God gave Paul...

There's nothing controversial about Paul's message:

1 Timothy 3:16
(KJV Strong's)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.uh? The gospel changes with "Dispensations?"
 

OzSpen

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Hello @Oz,

Thank you for responding. Would you please be more specific, so that a defensive can be made, for I do not understand what you are referring to?

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

charity,

I don't know what you mean by this: 'so that a defensive can be made'. Did you mean defense instead of defensive?

I have been specific in my posts at #29, 35, 37, 79. Are you not following this content that refutes pre-tribulation rapture, which is a fundamental teaching of dispensationalism?

See: Refuting the Pretribulation Rapture.

Oz
 
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Stranger

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charity,

I don't know what you mean by this: 'so that a defensive can be made'. Did you mean defense instead of defensive?

I have been specific in my posts at #29, 35, 37, 79. Are you not following this content that refutes pre-tribulation rapture, which is a fundamental teaching of dispensationalism?

See: Refuting the Pretribulation Rapture.

Oz

I don't see how the link you gave refuted the pre-trib rapture. Any argument I have heard concerning Noah and the Flood as proof for the rapture does not identify the Church as Noah in the Ark. The Church would be identified with Enoch who was translated before the Flood. Noah and his family would be identified with Israel going through the Tribulation but preserved by God.

Now, whether you think or not that this pictures the rapture of the Church from the Tribulation and Israel's deliverance through the Tribulation, it is what happened to Enoch and Noah.

Stranger
 
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Harvest 1874

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Thank you, @Harvest 1874, for taking the time to read the Companion Bible index, and for your response. However, I must agree with @DAH on this point.

Paul referred to the gospel he preached as, 'my gospel' in Romans 2:16: which he acknowledged as 'the gospel of God', and 'the gospel of Christ'. He received his gospel, not from men, but from the ascended, glorified Lord Himself, by revelation (Gal.1:11,12). His ministry altered when Israel was laid aside (temporarily) at the end of the Acts period, when he had a further revelation, and was appointed 'Steward' of the dispensation of the mystery concerning 'The Church of the One Body', 'The One New Man', which he made known in the prison epistles of Ephesians, Philippians and Colossions. The promise by the Lord to Him of further revelation he refers to in his defence before Agrippa in Acts 26:16, when recounting his conversion,

'But rise, and stand upon thy feet:
for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
to make thee a minister and a witness
both of these things which thou hast seen,
and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; ...'

Also during his meeting with the Ephesian elders in Acts 20, he said that he had ministered unto them 'the whole council of God', which he himself had received, this he itemizes, but he does not include the truth concerning 'The Mystery', for that was the subject of a further revelation of 'the council of God' yet to be revealed to Him.

So, 'the good news' (gospel) given by Paul was subject to change, as one dispensation gave way to another during his ministry (Acts 28), and further Divine revelation given.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one my sister, just because something is not written specifically in the written text does not imply it wasn't stated. I believe when the Apostle stated he shun not to declare the whole gospel he didn't leave anything out, especially something as important as "the Mystery", which is Christ in you.

Bless you my sister
 

bbyrd009

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Must you endure until the end, at which time your sins are blotted out - or are they all forgiven as soon as your are baptized by the Spirit and sealed?
pretty sure they are forgiven period, regardless of what one might do. Being forgiven will not save you, as we have discovered already. It is confession that leads to salvation, not forgiveness, at least i'm pretty sure. I have an exercise one might reflect upon, or even actually do, that would illustrate this. Unfortunately it's pretty volatile, and generating an example leads to pain, so it is better to watch for it to unfold IRL, but basically it involves forgiving someone of a sin that they feel justified in still committing. I guess witnesses have somewhat to do with it also, it's kind of apparent that someone in that state would not be very comfortable around a bunch of ppl who all believe that what is being done is a "sin."

but there is another good exercise that most ppl don't do that illustrates the same concept a diff way, that being to follow the Scriptural formula for a brother who is sinning against you, and see what happens. The above is basically the "bring some members with you the second time" step. Be as loving and open and 'forgiving' as you like; all of you, and see what happens.
 

bbyrd009

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Rather, it would be intellectually more honest to realize those words were for Israel - headed into the Kingdom to come on earth.
6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

so wadr i have a better idea imo; go and do that stuff, and trust that heaven comes to earth, not any imagined other way around
 

bbyrd009

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Acts 10:35
(KJV Strong's)
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Paul said in Titus 3 the complete opposite - a different Gospel - no similar aspects there:

Titus 3:5
(KJV Strong's)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Opposite - no similar aspects there
in your opinion maybe, but this is a false dichotomy, and takes advantage of the differing definitions of the term "works" to stay alive. Once "works" are understood and defined correctly for each context that disappears wadr. Faith without works is still dead, even if acquiring the faith required no works (not even the altar works you surely acknowledge as being "required," imo)
 

charity

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Hello there one and all,

I can't thank you for your responses I'm afraid, but I do praise God for your faith in Christ Jesus, and leave you in His almighty hands.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
 

Helen

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Hello there one and all,

I can't thank you for your responses I'm afraid, but I do praise God for your faith in Christ Jesus, and leave you in His almighty hands.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

Where are you going?
That sounds like a goodbye post. :(
 

DAH

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in your opinion maybe, but this is a false dichotomy, and takes advantage of the differing definitions of the term "works" to stay alive. Once "works" are understood and defined correctly for each context that disappears wadr. Faith without works is still dead, even if acquiring the faith required no works (not even the altar works you surely acknowledge as being "required," imo)

Excellent! You are proving a dispensational point all on your own - welcome aboard!

You had to reach to James to try to refute a non-works grace based program. Read the first verse of James - it wasn't written to you / gentile. It was written to Jews who were scattered because Saul's persecution.

James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Note James writes instructions to those scattered and in need of help - and then see how people followed those instructions to a tee with Peter - who was still on the Kingdom Gospel program.

Jam 5:14 — Jam 5:15
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

ref Acts 9:40 - Peter is traveling to areas just outside Jerusalem, where the 12 tribes of israel scattered after Saul of Taursus started persecuting the Christians. These people are who James wrote to - these people were still under the law and a works based program. Note that Peter performes miracles outlined in James 5 - where he heals a man with paulsy and raises a woman from the dead.

This letter from James had been sent to the "scattered tribes"....not gentiles... which is how they knew to send for the elder, Paul, when Tabitha got sick.

Acts 9:40
But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.

James would not write a letter to gentiles, because he was under the law. Gentiles were vile creatures to Jews - until Christ tore that partition down and revealed the Mystery.
 
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