Dividing Between Soul and Spirit

[marks]

Hebrews 4:9-13 KJV
9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10) For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13) Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

God wants us to rest, and if we are resting, we've stopped doing our own works. So we work to enter this rest, because the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than the sharpest 2 edged sword,

It cuts deep, dividing in two soul and spirit.

I want to stop there for the moment.

That the word of God divides between soul and spirit is reason for us to work to enter our rest, and that rest is to stop doing our own works.

This is how I understand these things.

The soul speaks of the psyche, my personality, temperment, the sum of my experiences, what I think of as "me", but not of the Lord. The man I was born, the man I grew up to become, the man born from Adam, alive in flesh, with the flesh mind.

Before I was born again, this was all I had. Now I am a new man, spirit, though the man of flesh continues.

The spirit child born from God lives in the body born from Adam.

The Word of God shows me which is which.

Everything the Bible says is true, and my spirit rejoices. My soul sometimes cringes.

Everything the Bible instructs is good, and my spirit obeys. My soul sometimes bristles.

Everything the Bible promises is foundational, and my spirit stands firm. My soul sometimes fears.

Always rejoicing is the true state of the New Creation. The flesh is fickle.

Always loving is the true state of the New Creation. Always faithful. Always self-controlled.

Anything less is soulish.

God sees all of me, much more of me than I see. I can take His Word for all things, and let His Word clarify for me what is not of His Spirit, so I can rest!

Much love!

 

[Riverwalker]

Yes there is a rest awaiting us, but not yet.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

we put down our works, and take up His

Matthew 11:Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hebrews 4:9-13 KJV
9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10) For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13) Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Blessings in Christ to you, Mark! Always good discussing the word itself.

Before I respond, define for me what you interpret the "rest" he was talking about here to be.

I think we may disagree here, but I want to make sure.

 

[Waiting on him]

Hebrews 4:9-13 KJV
9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10) For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13) Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

God wants us to rest, and if we are resting, we've stopped doing our own works. So we work to enter this rest, because the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than the sharpest 2 edged sword,

It cuts deep, dividing in two soul and spirit.

I want to stop there for the moment.

That the word of God divides between soul and spirit is reason for us to work to enter our rest, and that rest is to stop doing our own works.

This is how I understand these things.

The soul speaks of the psyche, my personality, temperment, the sum of my experiences, what I think of as "me", but not of the Lord. The man I was born, the man I grew up to become, the man born from Adam, alive in flesh, with the flesh mind.

Before I was born again, this was all I had. Now I am a new man, spirit, though the man of flesh continues.

The spirit child born from God lives in the body born from Adam.

The Word of God shows me which is which.

Everything the Bible says is true, and my spirit rejoices. My soul sometimes cringes.

Everything the Bible instructs is good, and my spirit obeys. My soul sometimes bristles.

Everything the Bible promises is foundational, and my spirit stands firm. My soul sometimes fears.

Always rejoicing is the true state of the New Creation. The flesh is fickle.

Always loving is the true state of the New Creation. Always faithful. Always self-controlled.

Anything less is soulish.

God sees all of me, much more of me than I see. I can take His Word for all things, and let His Word clarify for me what is not of His Spirit, so I can rest!

Much love!

I personally believe that Jesus Christ was the first to become a living soul since the fall of Adam.

in my opinion this would be why He would breathe on them and say receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[Waiting on him]

Nephish, the breath.
Only in Him is life.

 

[marks]

Blessings in Christ to you, Mark! Always good discussing the word itself.

Before I respond, define for me what you interpret the "rest" he was talking about here to be.

I think we may disagree here, but I want to make sure.

Hebrews 4:1-6 KJV
1) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4) For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5) And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6) Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Believing you enter His rest, ceasing from our own works. Not in the sense that we take no actions. But more like what this passage says of God Himself,

"although the works were finished from the foundation of the world."

There's a certain finality of action, even while the actions continue. Even though creation lasted 6 days, His works will nonetheless finished from the foundation of the world.

We rest, not that we stop doing things, but in that we believe God's salvation, and we rest in it. We stop taking responsibility for our relationship with God, knowing this is found in Christ. From that place of rest, we work.

Does that make sense?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I personally believe that Jesus Christ was the first to become a living soul since the fall of Adam.

I think so also.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

I think so also.

Much love!

In your last post I see you mentioned the foundation of the world. I believe this world was framed at Calvary.

He said it was finished.

 

[Waiting on him]

Hebrews 11:3 KJV
[3] Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Believing you enter His rest, ceasing from our own works. Not in the sense that we take no actions. But more like what this passage says of God Himself,

"although the works were finished from the foundation of the world."

There's a certain finality of action, even while the actions continue. Even though creation lasted 6 days, His works will nonetheless finished from the foundation of the world.

We rest, not that we stop doing things, but in that we believe God's salvation, and we rest in it. We stop taking responsibility for our relationship with God, knowing this is found in Christ. From that place of rest, we work.

Does that make sense?

That's what I thought.

In answer to your question, it makes sense intrinsically, only we disagree on what the term "rest" is referring to in the passage.

Let me see if I can give my interpretation clearly.

Hebrews 4:9-13 KJV
9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10) For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13) Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

I believe the "rest" here is a reference to the millennial reign of Christ; the metaphorical "day" of God resting from all His works, for "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years." I believe this passage we are in right now is what inspired Peter's saying in 2 Peter 3:8.

The interpretation then becomes that we have not yet entered into the millennial reign (v.9). When we do, we will no longer be working to bring about the kingdom of God on earth for it will already be here (v.10). But until the Lord returns and His reign on earth begins, we must continue laboring to make sure we ourselves enter into it, for just as many Israelites fell in the wilderness, so too could many Christians fall by the same example of unbelief (v.11. This contention, btw, runs throughout the NT scriptures. See 1 Corinthians 10). And how will we fall like they fell? By the sword, but not by a sword of the flesh but the sword of the Spirit; the sword not made by hands, which will lay bare the sins of men, and cause them to be "slain" in a sense, and either be restored onto God through repentance or be removed from His body. The Holy Spirit through the prophetic gifts was discerning spirits in the New Testament era, and no one was escaping like they do today for the Word was revealing all things, even men's sins within a congregation. This is what he means by verse 12, where he says, "Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do."

 

[Azim]

Hi @marks. Great post.

I was wondering, what is your definition of "rest" in your OP? I see others believe it be something else. After finishing reading your post and replies here, my thought came to Philippians 4:7. "And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." Would the "rest" in Hebrews 4 be comparable to being at peace or in a state of peace?

 

[marks]

Hi @marks. Great post.

I was wondering, what is your definition of "rest" in your OP? I see others believe it be something else. After finishing reading your post and replies here, my thought came to Philippians 4:7. "And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." Would the "rest" in Hebrews 4 be comparable to being at peace or in a state of peace?

Yes, I would say so.

Knowing our peace with God gives peace to our lives. Being completely and forever at peace with God - when I hold this in mind - gives peace in my heart.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But until the Lord returns and His reign on earth begins, we must continue laboring to make sure we ourselves enter into it,

OK, I see.

Much love!

 

[marks]

10) For he that is entered into his rest,

Who is this referring to?

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Who is this referring to?

Much love!

The average believer, after they have entered the millennial kingdom once He returns to establish it.

 

[marks]

The average believer, after they have entered the millennial kingdom once He returns to establish it.

Hebrews 3:15-19 KJV
15) While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16) For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17) But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18) And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19) So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Quite a number of interpretations of passages seem to rest on this "Day" = "Millenium" formula, though all I see in the Bible is this expression used as a simile, and obviously not generally applicable, for instance, 1 day = 1000 years, applied to "and in 3 days I will rebuild it", speaking of His body. Or many examples I'm certain you already know.

Hebrews 4:3 KJV
3) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

I compare the grammar of the passages, this one, the one above,

We which have believed do enter into rest. Not only in the future kingdom, but now. And it even contains the formula for how to enter the rest, and what entering looks like.

We believe, ceasing from all of our own works. Having believed, we enter rest.

Bringing this back around to the OP topic, dividing between soul and spirit, and surrounding context of this passage,

Our new spirit is the Spirit of adoption by which we cry Abba! Father! Because we trust in Christ, and He lives inside.

The old man, by contrast, is condemned, rejected, and rejects God. Approval and acceptance are things to be grasped at, to manipulate for, offering "proofs" of his self-justification. To win by exploits, to wear like badges, to wave like authority.

The spirit prefers to not self-promote.

OK, I'm rambling . . . I know!

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Quite a number of interpretations of passages seem to rest on this "Day" = "Millenium" formula, though all I see in the Bible is this expression used as a simile, and obviously not generally applicable, for instance, 1 day = 1000 years, applied to "and in 3 days I will rebuild it", speaking of His body. Or many examples I'm certain you already know.

No, no. Each thing in context. When Peter used the expression, it was in the context of discussing the Day of the Lord, i.e. after six thousand years of human history, and how heretics were questioning if it would ever come.

1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the Day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. (2 Peter 3:1-10)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hebrews 4:3 KJV
3) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

I compare the grammar of the passages, this one, the one above,

We which have believed do enter into rest. Not only in the future kingdom, but now.

With this one, Mark, you have to understand what he was quoting first. He's using Psalm 95 to make the point that God determined even before sinful and faithless Israel left the Wilderness that they would never enter the promised land, because they had walked in faithlessness before Him. So he was saying, don't walk in the same faithlessness yourselves, or He may swear regarding you the same thing, determining that you will never walk in obedience before Him and therefore casting you aside.

1 Oh come, let us sing to the Lord!
Let us shout joyfully to the Rock of our salvation.
6 ... let us worship and bow down;
Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.
7 For He is our God,
And we are the people of His pasture,
And the sheep of His hand.
Today, if you will hear His voice:
8 “Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion,
As in the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 When your fathers tested Me;
They tried Me, though they saw My work.
10 For forty years I was grieved with that generation,
And said, ‘It is a people who go astray in their hearts,
And they do not know My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ” (Psalm 95)

So the point becomes, we enter into the millennial rest now by walking in faith, and those who walk in faithlessness now exclude themselves from it because they walked in unbelief. We enter now, through faith, even though the millennium has not yet come, just as the faithful Israelites were in effect entering the promised land even before they got there by simply trusting God that He would get them there. Both determined their destiny by what they believed concerning the Living God, just as human souls do so regarding Heaven and salvation today.

 

[Waiting on him]

Hebrews 3:15-19 KJV
15) While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16) For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17) But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18) And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19) So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Quite a number of interpretations of passages seem to rest on this "Day" = "Millenium" formula, though all I see in the Bible is this expression used as a simile, and obviously not generally applicable, for instance, 1 day = 1000 years, applied to "and in 3 days I will rebuild it", speaking of His body. Or many examples I'm certain you already know.

Hebrews 4:3 KJV
3) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

I compare the grammar of the passages, this one, the one above,

We which have believed do enter into rest. Not only in the future kingdom, but now. And it even contains the formula for how to enter the rest, and what entering looks like.

We believe, ceasing from all of our own works. Having believed, we enter rest.

Bringing this back around to the OP topic, dividing between soul and spirit, and surrounding context of this passage,

Our new spirit is the Spirit of adoption by which we cry Abba! Father! Because we trust in Christ, and He lives inside.

The old man, by contrast, is condemned, rejected, and rejects God. Approval and acceptance are things to be grasped at, to manipulate for, offering "proofs" of his self-justification. To win by exploits, to wear like badges, to wave like authority.

The spirit prefers to not self-promote.

OK, I'm rambling . . . I know!

Much love!

The tabernacle of God is with men.

we are His body on earth as it is in heaven.

 

[Waiting on him]

Mary was doing what was needful.