Do I Have To Go To Church?

[amadeus]

Not sure how posting the verse in German changes anything I said....

Precisely!

 

[mjrhealth]

Clearly you have no desire to learn the truth. You are stuck worshipping your own version of Jesus, and you clearly do not study, nor want to study, the Word of God.

@Preacher4Truth Every religion on the faith of this earth worships there own version of Jesus, Jesus isnt a religion, but men despise the things of God and make there own.

Which version of Jesus do you worship, catholic, protestnat, SDA

 

[FHII]

Do you know who in your church are believers an which are not, can you tell the wolf in sheeps clothing from the sheep, or the wheat from the tares...

Of course not. But you are looking at the wheat and tares thing wrong. The wheat is good, tares are not. God will separate them and has done so in my Church. But the problem is you miss the part about the wheat still being there. If you are "wheat" you still have to be where there is a separation.

Jesus used farming alot in his parables. In this case, you still had to be where the farmer was. Are you "wild wheat" growing away from the farm? Are you a rogue sheep not under a shepherd? God can't even separate you if that's so.

I don't mind the tares or the wolves. Both are among the harvest and the flock. But because they are there, do you despise the wheat and the sheep?

because Jesus said they would both grow together than they would be separated because we cant tell

He said they would be manifested, so yes we can.

and who do wish to rule and reign over you, Christ or your pastor

Ahh. Now we get to the real problem! A true Pastor is appointed by Christ. Or, one of his Apostles. If Christ appoints him, he is Christ's ambassador and holds weight so long as he preached what Christ does.

I absolutely agree that there are pretend pastors. They may be even real good and sincerely love God. They may be of great help, but even if they are, it doesn't mean God called them. And yes, some of them are just hirings making a buck off God.

I get that.

We (the Church) are to be perfected. The Church will be perfected by the HG who will lead us into all truth. ABSOLUTELY! But how did Jesus choose to do it?

Ephesians 4:11-12 KJV
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

There is a Church govt. Here it is. This is what you need in order to be part of a body that is perfected. So how can you rail on pastors and simply point to Jesus when that same Jesus sent you a pastor?

It's not the only placed discussed. 1 Cor 12:28 also says something similar.

Yea, the wheat and the tares grow together, but they BOTH grow.

and what truth do you want, the one from Christ or that from your teachers,

Last quote I will address. Christ sent teachers too. They aren't mine except in the fact that they were sent to me. I don't want my teachers, but Christ's.

It seems in every way you are denying he sent teachers. Yet, the Bible says he did.

One more....

1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[amadeus]

We are to rebuke false teaching, so why should that type of post stop?

It was not your supposed rebuke that was the problem, but stating as facts, things about him which you do not know. See numbered points 1,2 & 3:

reformed1689 said:
1) Clearly you have no desire to learn the truth.
You are stuck worshipping your own version of Jesus, and
2) you clearly do not study,
3) nor want to study,
the Word of God.

You may believe those things, but you do not know them! You are the one that I have most often seen using the expression "ad hominem" against other people. Is it OK for you make personal attacks against anyone?

Did Jesus ever accusing someone of something which he did not know was true? How often do you try to be like Jesus?

How many of my questions will you answer truthfully?

 

[reformed1689]

Precisely!

 

[reformed1689]

It was not your supposed rebuke that was the problem, but stating as facts, things about him which you do not know. See numbered points 1,2 & 3:



You may believe those things, but you do not know them! You are the one that I have most often seen using the expression "ad hominem" against other people. Is it OK for you make personal attacks against anyone?

Did Jesus ever accusing someone of something which he did not know was true? How often do you try to be like Jesus?

How many of my questions will you answer truthfully?

The evidence is there for my accusations. He regularly speaks against Scriputre, says we do not need to study the Scriptures, etc. Only someone who does not want to know the truth or not care about the truth of Scripture would say that. So yes, it is fact.

 

[reformed1689]

But this is scriptural:

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." John 4:24

And therein, although you may not see it or understand it or accept it, is nonetheless that which you say is not there. If it is done according what God put in a man's heart and that is what the man "likes" it is good!

Take it up your disagreement with God!


You brought it up...why? God help the poor pew sitter who has not a clue. Is he as a result of his ignorance lost? Oh, no, it makes no difference whether he know it or not since he is either elect or not. Ignorance matters not at all! So what is the point of even bringing it up?

That's not what that verse says at all.

 

[FHII]

We are to rebuke false teaching, so why should that type of post stop?

Because he is a brother and no smaller or greater than you. I like you believe he's wrong! I'm working on that with him. Rebuke and combat his teachings of you believe they are wrong, and I am with you on this particular subject.

But we are all students and not even Apostles, much less Christ. New people come here and see such harsh judgment and leave and some of us long timers are getting tired of it.

Haven't you been reading some of the other threads? Personal attacks are terrible! They shouldn't be tolerated. I am standing up against it. And again, Mjrhealth may not be innocent himself, and I will jump on him next, if needed.

By all means, let's debate doctrine. But take your personal insults and attacks elsewhere.

Attack the belief, not the person. Because somewhere down the line, you're next!

I am my brother's keeper. Someone has to stand up to the poison. Be civil.

 

[Waiting on him]

It was not your supposed rebuke that was the problem, but stating as facts, things about him which you do not know. See numbered points 1,2 & 3:



You may believe those things, but you do not know them! You are the one that I have most often seen using the expression "ad hominem" against other people. Is it OK for you make personal attacks against anyone?

Did Jesus ever accusing someone of something which he did not know was true? How often do you try to be like Jesus?

How many of my questions will you answer truthfully?

Very obvious isn’t it.
Hebrews 4:12-13 KJV
[12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. [13] Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Scripture states the word of God is the discerner, and He was asking earlier today “ do you believe your equal to Christ”

My question would be

Do you believe you are the Word of God??

Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

Where ever Two or more are gathered in my name?

ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!!

 

[mjrhealth]

Of course not. But you are looking at the wheat and tares thing wrong. The wheat is good, tares are not. God will separate them and has done so in my Church. But the problem is you miss the part about the wheat still being there. If you are "wheat" you still have to be where there is a separation.

.

1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

I guess than you missed this bit

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

and again

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

thats why Jesus

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

because

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

So simple

 

[Waiting on him]

I guess than you missed this bit

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

and again

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

thats why Jesus

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

because

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

So simple

Kinda hard to argue.

 

[FHII]

It was not your supposed rebuke that was the problem, but stating as facts, things about him which you do not know. See numbered points 1,2 & 3:



You may believe those things, but you do not know them! You are the one that I have most often seen using the expression "ad hominem" against other people. Is it OK for you make personal attacks against anyone?

Did Jesus ever accusing someone of something which he did not know was true? How often do you try to be like Jesus?

How many of my questions will you answer truthfully?

Right on Amadeus! I am not sure we even agree on the OP. I doubt we do. I actually fully support Reformed is saying as well as others. I believe in attending Church!

But the personal attacks must stop. Yes, I used to be bad at them... Actually I was pretty good! I can be nasty as anyone! I put that behind me. I exhort others to do the same.

 

[amadeus]

The evidence is there for my accusations. He regularly speaks against Scriputre, says we do not need to study the Scriptures, etc. Only someone who does not want to know the truth or not care about the truth of Scripture would say that. So yes, it is fact.

The evidence is there for my accusations. He regularly speaks against Scriputre, says we do not need to study the Scriptures, etc. Only someone who does not want to know the truth or not care about the truth of Scripture would say that. So yes, it is fact.

Fortunately for @mjrhealth , you, in spite of what you believe that you know, are not God.

You do need to learn to communicate. That requires not only a knowledge of what you mean but also a knowledge of what the other guy means. On the first part for me the music has stopped because you repeatedly have failed to clearly communicate what you believe. I have had to surmise or guess. That makes you in my mind somewhat wishy-washy since you apparently believe you are one of His elect.

As to @mjrhealth I know that I know him and his beliefs better than you do. I know you don't accept my judgment either. That's also OK because, again, you are also not my judge. In answer to your unasked question, I am not your judge either, but my opinion of you is not improving as I realize what a poor and uninformed opinion you have of God. If you think because you are well-studied in the scripture you know God, consider the case of Saul of Tarsis before he met Jesus on the road! That is where you appear to be to me... and you have given me little or no reason to doubt it.

When I first started reading your posts and talking to you here I thought you were just cautious about sharing your personal testimony. I have come realize that you cannot share what you apparently don't have. Do you consider my words ad hominem as well? Give me a good to retract them and apologize and I certainly will.

Help us dear Lord!

 

[FHII]

He regularly speaks against Scriputr

Yea, he does. Have you noticed that can be said about alot of people? The problem is what I call trumping. Using scripture as if they were cards in poker. Can't do that...

He also uses scripture like everyone else here.

says we do not need to study the Scriptures

Yea... Caught that too! He actually suggested we don't need to study! So attack that, not him.

Only someone who does not want to know the truth or not care about the truth of Scripture would say that. So yes, it is fact.

I don't believe he really believes that. He does quote scripture though it not we with wisdom during this time.

Again, attack that, not him.

 

[amadeus]

Very obvious isn’t it.
Hebrews 4:12-13 KJV
[12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. [13] Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Scripture states the word of God is the discerner, and He was asking earlier today “ do you believe your equal to Christ”

My question would be

Do you believe you are the Word of God??

Tecarta Bible

My guess would be that he would not answer that question either. I really hope that he is learning to dislike himself just a little. That would be a good beginning. In order to kill your own old man requires the Holy Spirit, but who that likes his "old man" is going to allow that?

 

[reformed1689]

Because he is a brother and no smaller or greater than you. I like you believe he's wrong! I'm working on that with him. Rebuke and combat his teachings of you believe they are wrong, and I am with you on this particular subject.

But we are all students and not even Apostles, much less Christ. New people come here and see such harsh judgment and leave and some of us long timers are getting tired of it.

Haven't you been reading some of the other threads? Personal attacks are terrible! They shouldn't be tolerated. I am standing up against it. And again, Mjrhealth may not be innocent himself, and I will jump on him next, if needed.

By all means, let's debate doctrine. But take your personal insults and attacks elsewhere.

Attack the belief, not the person. Because somewhere down the line, you're next!

I am my brother's keeper. Someone has to stand up to the poison. Be civil.

Sorry, I don't share your conviction on that. There is a difference between personal attacks and pointing out facts. Do Not Offend - Reformed Truths

 

[amadeus]

Right on Amadeus! I am not sure we even agree on the OP. I doubt we do. I actually fully support Reformed is saying as well as others. I believe in attending Church!

But the personal attacks must stop. Yes, I used to be bad at them... Actually I was pretty good! I can be nasty as anyone! I put that behind me. I exhort others to do the same.

Thus far I don't believe I have expressed a definite position regarding the OP. I may not! I guess I need to start hitting the report button. I have in the past, but I don't like to if there is reasonable expectation of a change for the better without it. Just about not there now!

 

[reformed1689]

What

So attack that, not him.

What do you think I have done? That IS what I am attacking.

 

[reformed1689]

Fortunately for @mjrhealth , you, in spite of what you believe that you know, are not God.

You do need to learn to communicate. That requires not only a knowledge of what you mean but also a knowledge of what the other guy means. On the first part for me the music has stopped because you repeatedly have failed to clearly communicate what you believe. I have had to surmise or guess. That makes you in my mind somewhat wishy-washy since you apparently believe you are one of His elect.

As to @mjrhealth I know that I know him and his beliefs better than you do. I know you don't accept my judgment either. That's also OK because, again, you are also not my judge. In answer to your unasked question, I am not your judge either, but my opinion of you is not improving as I realize what a poor and uninformed opinion you have of God. If you think because you are well-studied in the scripture you know God, consider the case of Saul of Tarsis before he met Jesus on the road! That is where you appear to be to me... and you have given me little or no reason to doubt it.

When I first started reading your posts and talking to you here I thought you were just cautious about sharing your personal testimony. I have come realize that you cannot share what you apparently don't have. Do you consider my ad hominem as well? Give me a good to retract them and apologize and I certainly will.

Help us dear Lord!

What personal testimony are you looking for? My testimony is not the Gospel. I share Scripture.