Do Men Have Authority Over Women?

[Wrangler]

I don't see that anybody has authority over anybody else in the church, period.

Odd that Abraham gave money to Melchizedek and it is more odd that Christ is said to be the head of the church. See
Ephesians 5:23.

More than that, it is not merely order in church but overall divine order. God is not a god of chaos but order and hierarchy brings order. Evidence is that every organization has a head.

 

[Grailhunter]

No, I just think he was wrong, like if I thought the Cubs would beat the Mets, but they didn't, I'd be wrong - not a liar.

Paul was continuing the Jewish social status of women. Why? Hard to tell, he was dealing with Gentiles, so it was not like he had to accommodate them. But Paul was not introducing anything new, it was all Jewish. It was the rule at the time? But Christ did not exhibit such attitudes, at any level. Paul missed an opportunity to set Christianity on the right path. But then again Christ did not take a stand against slavery or polygamy. Maybe it was not the right time to address those issues.

It is hard for Christians to accept that women were still property in this early Christian era and Paul perpetuated that.....the head of a woman is man....Genesis... he will rule over you....women will be saved through child bearing ...Same as the Old Testament ....Men were included in the covenant with God by circumcision....women were included by child bearing...Old and New Testament, fathers chose their daughter's husbands and money was exchanged for that arrangement. Polygamy continued for a long time after Christ. Concubines continued but that is a long story. Men took their wives through sexual union....no requirement for a wedding in the Bible...Old or New Testament.

This is the struggle that fundamentalists have....2000 years of Christianity with a very active God.....they are ok with Him being alive, but they do not allow Him to change anything....teaching us better ways....it all happens slowly.

Education...that was a war....Christians were drug along kicking and screaming....still a lot of Bible only's against education and science.

Christians learned that...slavery was wrong.

Christians learned that...women should have the right to choose their husbands.

Christians learned that...Polygamy and concubinage was wrong.

Christians learned that...women are saved the same way men are.

Christians learned that...Weddings are a very good thing in many ways. Protestants were the first to make weddings a requirement for marriage.

Christians learned that...that women can speak in church. I have never been in a Christian church were women were not allowed to speak....and probably would react to it roughly if I did.

Christians are learning that women are equal partners in everything....society....families....and church. Many churches have husband and wife pastoral teams....preaching...singing...teaching Sunday school. This is another case where some Christians are still being drug along kicking and screaming...but we are getting there. If I am married, we are two horses hitched to the wagon of life. This goes along with the equal rights amendments......which is another thing that some Christian are being drug along kicking and screaming. Learning slowly!

We learnt that the world is not flat and stars do not fall to earth.

If you notice....Christian countries do not conquer other countries anymore.

 

[Scott Downey]

Paul is not wrong in anything Paul wrote, Peter attests to Paul being absolutely correct and of God.
But some people distort Paul to their own destruction. As they do all the other scriptures, to them Paul is as much a stumbling stone and rock of offense as is Christ.
The scriptures are a trap set for the false and the wicked.
Not too shocking to me, some are anti-Pauline Christians.
God will be the judge of all that is said, and it won't go well for some.

2 Peter 3
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Jim B]

Paul was continuing the Jewish social status of women. Why? Hard to tell, he was dealing with Gentiles, so it was not like he had to accommodate them. But Paul was not introducing anything new, it was all Jewish. It was the rule at the time? But Christ did not exhibit such attitudes, at any level. Paul missed an opportunity to set Christianity on the right path. But then again Christ did not take a stand against slavery or polygamy. Maybe it was not the right time to address those issues.

It is hard for Christians to accept that women were still property in this early Christian era and Paul perpetuated that.....the head of a woman is man....Genesis... he will rule over you....women will be saved through child bearing ...Same as the Old Testament ....Men were included in the covenant with God by circumcision....women were included by child bearing...Old and New Testament, father chose their daughter's husbands and money was exchanged for that arrangement. Polygamy continued for a long time after Christ. Concubines continued but that is a long story. Men took their wives through sexual union....no requirement for a wedding in the Bible...Old or New Testament.

This is the struggle that fundamentalists have....2000 years of Christianity with a very active God.....they are ok with Him being alive, but they do not allow Him to change anything....teaching us better ways....it all happens slowly.

Education...that was a war....Christians were drug along kicking and screaming....still a lot of Bible only's against education and science.

Christians learned that...slavery was wrong.

Christians learned that...women should have the right to choose their husbands.

Christians learned that...Polygamy and concubinage was wrong.

Christians learned that...women are saved the same way men are.

Christians learned that...Weddings are a very good thing in many ways. Protestants were the first to make weddings a requirement for marriage.

Christians learned that...that women can speak in church. I have never been in a Christian church were women were not allowed to speak....and probably would react to it roughly if I did.

Christians are learning that women are equal partners in everything....society....families....and church. Many churches have husband and wife pastoral teams....preaching...singing...teaching Sunday school. This is another case where some Christians are still being drug along kicking and screaming...but we are getting there. If I am married, we are two horses hitched to the wagon of life. This goes along with the equal rights amendments......which is another thing that some Christian are being drug along kicking and screaming. Learning slowly!

We learnt that the world is not flat and stars do not fall to earth.

If you notice....Christian countries do not conquer other countries anymore.

Another great post!

People seem to forget that we are not living in a NT society.

 

[bbyrd009]

Paul tells women not to speak in churches. I can only think of one way to interpret that.

ah, thinking…ya

 

[bbyrd009]

Paul is not wrong in anything Paul wrote, Peter attests to Paul being absolutely correct and of God.
But some people distort Paul to their own destruction. As they do all the other scriptures, to them Paul is as much a stumbling stone and rock of offense as is Christ.
The scriptures are a trap set for the false and the wicked.
Not too shocking to me, some are anti-Pauline Christians.
God will be the judge of all that is said, and it won't go well for some.

2 Peter 3
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

word

 

[bbyrd009]

Odd that Abraham gave money to Melchizedek and it is more odd that Christ is said to be the head of the church. See
Ephesians 5:23.

More than that, it is not merely order in church but overall divine order. God is not a god of chaos but order and hierarchy brings order. Evidence is that every organization has a head.

id say that that seems right to us—and Christ is def the Head of the Church—but the concept prolly gets warped by people? Israel wanted a king, iow, and 24Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power

so, im not disagreeing that the man is head of a “marriage,” but i will say that there is a marriage going on inside of each of us, too, just like Eve gave to Adam, who was (suddenly) there with her

 

[reformed1689]

But the name of the thread is, "Do men have authority over women." I said, "How is it relevant? You want to have authority over women, do you not - to be their God. Isn't that what the thread is about?" How am I missing the point?

Because that is a strawman argument. There is nothing in the OP that says I WANT to have authority over women. And I definitely have NEVER said that I want to be their God. So no, that is not what this thread is about, not even a little. This thread is about what SCRIPTURE says the roles of men and women are in the church and in the home.

 

[reformed1689]

This thread is not about people treating fairly. And you did not back up your claim of what God wants with 1 single verse.

Your notion of fair goes against a women submitting to a man does it, contrary to 1 COR 11:3, Eph 5:24, Col 3:18 et al?

Don't forget, he picks and chooses what is or is not Scripture based on his feelings.

 

[bbyrd009]

If you notice....Christian countries do not conquer other countries anymore

“like” down to here
i mean we just got out of afghanistan?
which i doubt was about conquering anyway, apparently more like another way to make $$$ for the machine, and for a sign maybe, “the graveyard of empires,” but still

 

[Grailhunter]

Another great post!

People seem to forget that we are not living in a NT society.

LOL! For those that do not believe me, the best thing they can do is try to prove me wrong, they will learn a lot on that journey.
And if they studied the New Testament era they would understand the Bible better.

 

[bbyrd009]

proof is what is required for law and courts, huh
see but it takes no proof to see how you feel on the matter, and i think that is what should be believed

This thread is about what SCRIPTURE says the roles of men and women are in the church and in the home.

there are no…male and female in the kingdom suggests to me that if one does not change their thinking, no kingdom

 

[reformed1689]

there are no…male and female in the kingdom suggests to me that if one does not change their thinking, no kingdom

In the Kingdom of Heaven, correct. We are not in Heaven are we?

 

[Bob Estey]

This thread is not about people treating fairly. And you did not back up your claim of what God wants with 1 single verse.

Your notion of fair goes against a women submitting to a man does it, contrary to 1 COR 11:3, Eph 5:24, Col 3:18 et al?

Regardless of what a thread was meant to be about, I respond to what people say to me.

 

[Bob Estey]

Because that is a strawman argument. There is nothing in the OP that says I WANT to have authority over women. And I definitely have NEVER said that I want to be their God. So no, that is not what this thread is about, not even a little. This thread is about what SCRIPTURE says the roles of men and women are in the church and in the home.

God has all the authority - we have authority over no one. So why you could claim to have authority over women - I can only imagine that's the way you want it.

 

[reformed1689]

God has all the authority - we have authority over no one. So why you could claim to have authority over women - I can only imagine that's the way you want it.

Because God SAID Men have authority over Women in various situations. This is not difficult Bob.

 

[Bob Estey]

Because God SAID Men have authority over Women in various situations. This is not difficult Bob.

No, Paul said that. Find me a quote in the Bible where either God or Jesus say men have authority over women.

 

[Wrangler]

Don't forget, he picks and chooses what is or is not Scripture based on his feelings.

I put him on ignore. Talking to him is like having a conversation with teenagers who make things up as they go to get what they want.

 

[reformed1689]

No, Paul said that. Find me a quote in the Bible where either God or Jesus say men have authority over women.

SCRIPTURE, from which that comes, IS THE WORD OF GOD. In other words, if it is in the Bible, GOD said it.

 

[Bob Estey]

SCRIPTURE, from which that comes, IS THE WORD OF GOD. In other words, if it is in the Bible, GOD said it.

You believe the Word of God is the entire Bible. I believe the Word of God are those times God and Jesus are quoted.