Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?

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servantfiss

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Jul 4, 2012
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Ok , so we have seen by the very mouth Of God that this " New Covenant " is built around the Law ( Jer. 31 ) , we have seen in Matt. 5 that Jesus said we are to both teach and obey the Law , we have read in Acts 21 the Apostle Paul showing that the accusation that he was teaching against the Law was a lie , as well as he and others there not only obeying the Law but making sacrifice . We also see that Gentiles were to obey certain parts of the Law because the Holy Spirit said it was necessary for salvation ( Acts 15 , same subject ) . We have heard in Romans 3:31 the Law has not been abolished , and in Hebrews 7:12 we notice the Law is still in active use .

So lets look at more in the scriptures about the Law , and it's meaning in our Christian lives .

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Notice if we will the duality of the Commandments and the faith in the Christ , these being two different groups or types of people but yet still obeying the Law and having faith in Christ . This is indeed what we are taught by the Christ and His Apostles , for we must have faith to be saved , as well as obey the Law because it is His moral standard , and does indeed expect us to keep it .

Now this of course does by no means answer all the questions one may have about the Law in our lives today , but it does at least show irrefutable scriptural proof that we are to obey His Law . For if we take just the scriptures I posted alone ( knowing that I haven't posted all there is about the Law ) , we can know with surety where we stand in this subject .

in brotherly love ,
the lowest servant of the Most High God
 

williemac

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Ok , so we have seen by the very mouth Of God that this " New Covenant " is built around the Law ( Jer. 31 ) , we have seen in Matt. 5 that Jesus said we are to both teach and obey the Law , we have read in Acts 21 the Apostle Paul showing that the accusation that he was teaching against the Law was a lie , as well as he and others there not only obeying the Law but making sacrifice . We also see that Gentiles were to obey certain parts of the Law because the Holy Spirit said it was necessary for salvation ( Acts 15 , same subject ) . We have heard in Romans 3:31 the Law has not been abolished , and in Hebrews 7:12 we notice the Law is still in active use .

So lets look at more in the scriptures about the Law , and it's meaning in our Christian lives .

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Notice if we will the duality of the Commandments and the faith in the Christ , these being two different groups or types of people but yet still obeying the Law and having faith in Christ . This is indeed what we are taught by the Christ and His Apostles , for we must have faith to be saved , as well as obey the Law because it is His moral standard , and does indeed expect us to keep it .

Now this of course does by no means answer all the questions one may have about the Law in our lives today , but it does at least show irrefutable scriptural proof that we are to obey His Law . For if we take just the scriptures I posted alone ( knowing that I haven't posted all there is about the Law ) , we can know with surety where we stand in this subject .

in brotherly love ,
the lowest servant of the Most High God

So what are you going to do about the contradiction your interpretation poses with other scripture? I say your interpretation because for instance, Rev.12:17 and 14:12 simpy says "commandments". They do not say "law". For that matter, why would we accept that they mean the ten commandments? We can see in 1John 3:23, that Jesus' commandments to the church were to believe on Him and love one another. In fact, if we were to link our works of law with salvation, this is the opposite of believing on Him for salvation. It becomes a disobedience to His commandment and His word given in John 3:16. It is also contrary to Rom.10:4, which says that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe.

As for Acts 21, where do you get the nerve to reverse the message given? The passage reveals that it was the other disciples that were guilty of heaping the law upon those Gentiles, and they were corrected by Paul. Their conclusion in vs. 25 is this: " But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from (drinking) blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality"

Furthermore, there is no indication in this passage that these things were to be connected with their salvation or justification for life. These were merely given as good examples to follow. In fact in Rev.2:20-22, Jesus deals with who He calls His servants who were actually in sexual immorality and warned that He would send them into great tribulation if they did not repent of their deeds. This confirms His promise that whom He loves, He rebukes and chastens. He did not threaten them with banishment, but rather with chastening, as any Father deals with a disobedient son.

As for Math.5, it must be understood that Jesus came to the Jews while they were under the old covenant and He taught and convicted them under this covenant of law. However, the new covenant did not begin until His death and resurrection. It was explained in Gal.3:23..."But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would AFTERWARD be revealed..24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ...25 But AFTER FAITH HAS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A TUTOR" Jesus did not reveal the covenant of faith to those under the law. He rather used the law as a tutor, to confine them under sin, as the law was meant to be used (Gal.3:22). Faith was not revealed until it's due time; not until after His sacrifice for sin. It was necessary for it to be kept a secret until the death of Jesus was accomplished. Otherwise they would not have killed Him.

These verses in Galatians 3 follow after the conclusion concerning the law, which is.....(vs.21) ....."if there had been a law given which could have given life, then truly righteousness would have been by the law".

I would advise anyone here and elsewhere to obey the commandment of Jesus and believe on Him for eternal life, and forsake any thought that life can come by the law. It cannot, it never did, and it never will.
 

Saint

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Apr 7, 2012
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I would advise anyone here and elsewhere to obey the commandment of Jesus and believe on Him for eternal life, and forsake any thought that life can come by the law. It cannot, it never did, and it never will.

Who do you think gave the ten commandments in the first place? ;)

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob
 

williemac

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Who do you think gave the ten commandments in the first place? ;)

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob
What does that question have to do with what the bible says about the purpose of the law and the way to righteousness and salvation? It was all inspired of God, wasn't it? Is Gal.3:21-23 a lie? Did the giver of the law lie in John 3:16? Is Rom.10: 9,10 wrong, or Rom.10:4 ? Can the giver of the ten commandments for one purpose not also give other commandments for other purposes? Can the giver of the law for the one covenenat not give grace for the other?
 

0bed

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Hi. There is an excellent video here about what it means to be saved by Grace. Please enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWmZffl-K7w&feature=player_embedded
 

servantfiss

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Jul 4, 2012
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williemac , you are confused as to what I have said regarding salvation , possibly because you haven't read my posts concerning it , so for your benefit I shall repeat it , " there shall no flesh by justified by the works of the Law " .

As for the " Commandments ", I shall not attempt to teach you of the God Head , but only to say that They are One , there is no " he said , she said " as it were , but rather " no shadow of turning " , One is not at odds with Another , nor replaces the moral requirements of God on man , for They are One .

You spoke about Acts 21 , but perhaps you are confused again , for in that chapter it speaks nothing about disciples heaping the Law upon the Gentiles , but rather it speaks to a lie being told about Paul teaching the Jewish people not to walk after the customs of Moses . Perhaps you were thinking of Acts 15 where there were certain men come to teach the Gentiles they had to be circumcised in order to be saved , this is where we find this verse speaking to the question " That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."( Acts 15:5) , and we get this answer (Acts 15:28) "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;", please notice the word " necessary", necessary for what ? Salvation , for that is the context of the whole chapter .

You also wrote "Furthermore, there is no indication in this passage that these things were to be connected with their salvation or justification for life. These were merely given as good examples to follow."
Can you please post the Book ,Chapter and Verse where we can read this " These were merely given as good examples to follow."? I have already posted the scripture where you see what the Holy Spirit said about the Law and the Gentiles salvation .

Now as far as what you said about Rev. 2:20 and on , you wrote "He did not threaten them with banishment, but rather with chastening, as any Father deals with a disobedient son."
Sir I pray you do not believe we can willingly sin and still be in a saved condition , for in 1Col.6:9 we read this "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,", so if you read Rev.2:20-22 as literal fornication , then you must not dismiss this fact . We are indeed saved by grace and faith but also obedience to His Word , for " faith without works is dead " ( book of James ) , as well as Rev. 2:10 "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.". Many other passages could I post but you have a bible and know this well .

You also said things concerning Matt.5 , but much of what you said is not found in the Bible , please sir if you will obey the commandment that was given too us concerning the use and teaching of the scriptures , 1Col. 4:6 " think not beyond that which is written " , and also 1 Peter 4:11 " if any man speak let him speak as the utterances of God "

in brotherly love
the lowest servant of the Most High God
 

Saint

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We are not saved by the law but after salvation if we don't live by the moral laws of Yahweh the spirit does not live in you

Rom 8:7-8 ESV For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. (8) Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob
 

richard79408

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Greetings, I have found that Grace is somewhat different in meaning depending on who says it and to whom hears it.
So I went to Eph 2:8-9 and did search on how the Ephesians were saved by Grace.. Enjoy.

http://rgfheart.com/bible/eph

While it is in flash format--it appears as a two page book with flipping pages so it is easy to read
 

0bed

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Feb 21, 2010
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I think you are both saying the same thing.

It is usually taken as read that we need to hear the Gospel and repent of our sins which are many as proven by the law which cannot save but only condemn. This is not disputed?

Paul then continues by saying that our salvation derives totally from the Lord and is not the product of, nor the reward given to our works but that the gift of God’s grace is because of our Faith.

I’m not even sure if Abraham heard the gospel?

Eph 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast."
 

williemac

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williemac , you are confused as to what I have said regarding salvation , possibly because you haven't read my posts concerning it , so for your benefit I shall repeat it , " there shall no flesh by justified by the works of the Law " .
Thank you for sharing this verse. However, what good is it to quote it and promote it if one walks away from the truth found in it and ends up in contradiction with it?

As for the " Commandments ", I shall not attempt to teach you of the God Head , but only to say that They are One , there is no " he said , she said " as it were , but rather " no shadow of turning " , One is not at odds with Another , nor replaces the moral requirements of God on man , for They are One .
] On the contrary, if we are speaking of the gift of eternal life, there are no moral requirements required. There are plenty of references to prove and varify this fact. God is God and man is man. There certainly is no shadow of turning concerning that fact. So let us not attempt to qualify ourselves before Him by doing only which He can do. There is none righteous. The law requires righteousness. If it was required of us to keep the law for eternal life, then every human who ever lived would be disqualified, with one exception...Jesus.
You spoke about Acts 21 , but perhaps you are confused again , for in that chapter it speaks nothing about disciples heaping the Law upon the Gentiles , but rather it speaks to a lie being told about Paul teaching the Jewish people not to walk after the customs of Moses . Perhaps you were thinking of Acts 15 where there were certain men come to teach the Gentiles they had to be circumcised in order to be saved , this is where we find this verse speaking to the question " That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."( Acts 15:5) , and we get this answer (Acts 15:28) "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;", please notice the word " necessary", necessary for what ? Salvation , for that is the context of the whole chapter .

Actually, you are correct. I had Acts 15 in mind. However, there was no indication that the Gentiles should keep the law for justification. Here is vs.5.." But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up saying,"it is necessary to circumcise them, and command them to keep the law of Moses" folowing up, Peter replied with vs.10,11..." Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the necks of the disiples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they" How is it that you feel correct in isolating a passage or two in order to push a doctrine that contradicts the general them of the content? The Gentiles were not being pushed into obeying the law for justification. If that were the case, we might as well throw out the book of Galatians and also much of Romans, including and especially 10:4...." For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe"

You also wrote "Furthermore, there is no indication in this passage that these things were to be connected with their salvation or justification for life. These were merely given as good examples to follow."
Can you please post the Book ,Chapter and Verse where we can read this " These were merely given as good examples to follow."? I have already posted the scripture where you see what the Holy Spirit said about the Law and the Gentiles salvation .
Please remind us of this scripture, and tell us how it does not contradict Gal. or Rom.10:4 As well, in Acts 15:28, we read.." For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you these necessary things" Is this the passage? Why not go to vs.29, then? " that you abstain from things offered to idols, from (drinking) blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality ( note that these are the exact words used in Acts 21) If you keep yourselves from these, YOU WILL DO WELL" Note the last part..."you will do well" Several things to consider. first, these are a far cry from telling them to keep the law of Moses, which are the ten commandments from Mnt. Sinai. Second, the fact that they were necessary does not mean that they were qualifications for life. If they kept themselves from these thing... YOU WILL DO WELL" IT WAS MERELY GOOD ADVICE. They were necessary in order to do well. Period. We cannot go into a place of ignoring everything else written in scripture concerning the qualification for life.

Now as far as what you said about Rev. 2:20 and on , you wrote "He did not threaten them with banishment, but rather with chastening, as any Father deals with a disobedient son."
Sir I pray you do not believe we can willingly sin and still be in a saved condition , for in 1Col.6:9 we read this "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,", so if you read Rev.2:20-22 as literal fornication , then you must not dismiss this fact . We are indeed saved by grace and faith but also obedience to His Word , for " faith without works is dead " ( book of James ) , as well as Rev. 2:10 "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.". Many other passages could I post but you have a bible and know this well .
I merely observed what Jesus told them. However, in regards to 1Cor.6:9,10, I find it typical to pull a passage out of its context to prove a faulty point. Here is the next verse..." And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of God".
Here is the point; When we come into the family of God we are no longer identified by the flesh but rather by the new man. We are no longer identified by our works but by the works of Jesus. We are no longer identified by our own righteousness, but by the righteousness of Jesus, the righteousness given to us by faith in Him. Our old man is considered by God as dead, crucified with Christ. We have already died with Jesus for our sin. We cannot be further identified by sin, because as God promised in the new covenant..." their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more"



You also said things concerning Matt.5 , but much of what you said is not found in the Bible , please sir if you will obey the commandment that was given too us concerning the use and teaching of the scriptures , 1Col. 4:6 " think not beyond that which is written " , and also 1 Peter 4:11 " if any man speak let him speak as the utterances of God "

in brotherly love
the lowest servant of the Most High God
I am not thinking beyond what was written. I am considering the whole counsel of God on the matter. Scripture cannot contradict itself. But thank you for your concern.
 

0bed

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Jesus did not end the law, he strengthened it, but as it is impossible to keep the law, Jesus provided a way of escape by paying the penalty for our sins, which is death, on the cross. Here are the commandments of Jesus, who is GOD with us.

1. "Forgive everybody of all their offences against you."
2. "You must be born again."
3. "Abide in me, and let me abide in you."
4. "Let people see your good works." (do not hide your light under a basket.)
5. "End disputes quickly."
6. "Whatever causes you to sin, get rid of it."
7. "Do not swear oaths at all."
8. "Do not return offence for offence." (Turn the other cheek.)
9. "Give what people ask of you, and give more than is required." (Go the extra mile.)
10. "Love your enemies and those who work against you."
11. "Give to the poor to please God, not to gain approval from other people."
12. "Pray privately and simply, not to impress other people."
13. "Make your prayers be like the Lord’s Prayer."
14. "When you fast, do it secretly, not for show."
15. "Store up your treasures in heaven, not on earth."
16. "Do not worry about your material needs."
17. "Do not worry about the future."
18. "Make God your highest priority, and he will take care of all your needs."
19. "Do not judge other people." (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
20. "Do not give holy things to dogs or cast your pearls before swine."
21. "Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, comfort those in distress."
22. "Follow the narrow path to life." (enter by the narrow gate.)
23. "Beware of false prophets."
24. "Exercise power over unclean spirits."
25. "Love little children, do not despise them."
26. "Do not take the titles 'master' or 'father' for yourself."
27. "Resolve disputes in an orderly way, like this . . . "
28. "Do not oppose other believers in Christ who are not in your group."
29. "Have total faith in God for everything."
30. "Be like the good Samaritan." (go, and do likewise.)
31. "Love other people as i have loved you"
32. "Eat bread and drink wine in remembrance of me."
33. "Wash one another's feet."
34. "Be merciful."
35. "Go and teach all nations, baptising them."
36. "Keep my commandments."
37. "Be prepared for your master to return."
 

Boaz

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mark s said:
I don't know any christians that follow the law like the Jews do, but the law is from the same, unchanging God. Are all the details of the law only meant for Israel, or should christians follow it to the letter as well?
Is there real proof that we should or shouldn't? Biblical proof, something very clear?

1 Timothy 1:8-9 “And we know that the Law is good, if anyone uses it lawfully, knowing this, that Law is not laid down for a righteous one, but for lawless and undisciplined ones, for ungodly and sinful ones, for unholy and profane ones . . .”

The Law was given for those not born again. Being born again, we have been created “patterned after God, in righteousness and true holiness” (Eph. 4:24).

I would describe the purpose of the Law with these two Scriptures:

Galatians 3:23-26 “But before the coming of faith, we were guarded under Law, having been locked up to the faith being about to be revealed. So that the Law has become a trainer of us until Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But faith coming, we are no longer under a trainer; for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”

Now, one thing to remember, the Law was given to the Israelites only. It was not given to the gentiles. When Paul is saying “we were guarded under Law”, “we” means Israelites. What Paul is saying here relates specifically to the Jews.

The word that’s translated here as “trainer” (other translations, tutor, schoolmaster), is paidogogos, or, in a more familiar form, paedogogue. This is “one who leads children”, and it was used specifically of a person, generally a slave, assigned to guard and guide children from childhood into their teens.

They would take them to school and back, and accompany them other places. The primary function of this person was the child’s constant companion to make sure the child “toed the line”, obeyed the rules, and never forgot what was expected of them. The paedogogue was to keep the child safe from physical and moral harm until maturity.

Once the child reached maturity, the paedogogue was of course dismissed.

For the Jews, the Law was a constant restraint against sin, a reminder of God’s holiness, and of their need for God’s grace. Paul likens the coming of faith to maturity, the time when the paedogogue is no longer needed. It was given to keep the Jews a separated people, dependent upon God, and seeking His salvation, until Messiah had come.

Those who had not reached the maturity of righteousness by faith were kept from going off the deep end by a Law requiring righteousness. The standard could never be reached, but so long as you were trying, it kept you where you needed to be until Christ could give you His righteousness, lest you simply become abandoned to your own sin.

The second purpose for the Law was to give awareness of sin:

Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? Let it not be! But I did not know sin except through Law; for also I did not know lust except the Law said, You shall not lust."

The Law shows us what sin is, and, before Christ came, gave a standard, a target to aim for.

But the Law could not, and can not, give righteousness. Since God’s only acceptable standard is total moral perfection, start to finish, through and through, no matter how much we keep the law, it’s like swimming to Hawaii. I might make it to the buoys, and you might make it to Catalina, but neither of us can swim to Hawaii. No one can.

But isn’t the Law good? Shouldn’t we use it as a pattern for our behavior? Let’s see what the Scripture says . . .

Colossians 2:16-17 “Then do not let anyone judge you in eating, or in drinking, or in part of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, which are a shadow of coming things, but the body is of Christ.”

Romans 14:2-4 “One indeed believes to eat all things, but being weak, another one eats vegetables. The one eating, do not despise the one not eating. And the one not eating, do not judge the one eating, for God received him. Who are you judging another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. But he will stand, for God is able to make him stand.”

Romans 14:5 “One indeed judges a day above another day; and another one judges every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.”

Dietary Law? Keeping the feasts? Sabbath? No.

Galatians 5:6 “For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength, but faith working through love.”

Circumcision? No.

2 Corinthians 9:7 (concerning giving) “Each one as he purposes in his heart, not out of grief or out of necessity, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

Tithing? No.

Should we say, “those are the ‘ceremonial laws’, but we are still bound by the ‘moral laws’”? Can we subdivide the Law?

Galatians 3:10 “For as many as are out of works of Law, these are under a curse. For it has been written, Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all the things having been written in the book of the Law, to do them.”

Galatians 5:3 “And I testify again to every man being circumcised, that he is a debtor to do all the Law,”

There is a specific technical foundation to our not being under the Law, that is, bound to keeping its precepts.

Romans 7:1-6 “Or are you ignorant, brothers, (for I speak to those knowing Law), that the Law lords it over the man for as long a time as he lives? For the married woman was bound by Law to the living husband; but if the husband dies, she is set free from the Law of the husband. So then, if the husband is living, she will be called an adulteress if she becomes another man's. But if the husband dies, she is free from the Law, so as for her not to be an adulteress by becoming another man's. So that, my brothers, you also were made dead to the Law through the body of Christ, for you to become Another's, to the One raised from the dead, so that we may bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin were working in our members through the Law for the bearing of fruit unto death. But now we have been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.”

Simply put, the Law governs our life. “The soul that sins shall die”. The Law requires our death, and we’ve died in Christ. Romans 6 explains we were immersed into Christ when He died, so His death counts as our own. Therefore, the Law’s righteous demand upon us, that we die, has been met.

I’ll say this again.

The Law demands our death, and we’ve died. Therefore, the Law is finished with us.

“But now we have been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.”

This is why the Apostle can write,

“Therefore, there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus”.

There cannot be. There is no longer any law that condemns us. We’ve died to the Law. Just as the woman whose husband dies is free to marry, no longer bound by the law governing marriage, we are no longer bound by the Law of Moses. We are free to “remarry”, as it were, that is, to serve another. We no longer serve the Law, we serve Christ.

What did Paul say?

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 “For being free of all, I enslaved myself to all, that I might gain the more. And I became as a Jew to the Jews, that I might gain Jews; to those under Law as under Law, that I might gain those under Law; to those without Law as without Law (not being without Law of God, but under the law of Christ), that I might gain those without Law.”

He was free to live as those without Law (excepting the fact that he still served Jesus Christ).

What did the Apostles and the early church say?

In Acts 15, the question was specifically raised, “Do the gentiles need to keep the Law?”

Peter had a clear response. “why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we had strength to bear?”

The consensus was clear. Abstain from idols, sexual immorality, eating things strangled, and eating blood. The reason for this was given. “For in every city from ancient generations Moses has those proclaiming him (preaching Moses), having been read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” (vs. 21)

For the sake of those who have grown up their whole lives being taught that this was not to be done, don’t do it.

It was around this same time that Paul both had Timothy circumcised, because they were going to be evangelizing Jews who knew Timothy was half-Greek, and refused to have Titus circumcised, because the Jews were insisting that he had to be. For the sake of the Gospel, Timothy was circumcised. But to defend the principle, Titus was not.

I think a great example of this whole idea is when I finished paying off my car last year. What would the sense be if I thought I still had to send in that monthly payment? Now, I’m free to send another couple hundred a month to the bank if I want to. But that’s up to me.

“Is there no restraint against bad behavior anymore???”

Galatians 5:13-16 “For, brothers, you were called to freedom. Only do not use the freedom for an opening to the flesh. But through love serve one another. For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. But if you bite and devour one another, be careful that you are not consumed by one another. But I say, Walk in the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.”

Love in Christ,
Mark
Romans 3:31

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”
 

Boaz

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richard79408 said:
Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

When you look at the gospels up to the cross--we find Jesus teaching the Mosaic law to that lost generation of Jews. Not only are they lost but they are also the last generation of the Jews.

For instance, the jews taught that if they choose to decide that their parents are a gift from God--then they don't have to accept the gift. This comes out of the 613 man make scribal laws. Jesus combats this with the actual teaching of the Law itself.

When you begin to read looking at this--it shows up all over the place. It isn't that they did not know the law i.e. Matt 19:3-9 because they did. They just did not follow the law. And because of that they were [a] the last generation of Jews and they were dead--separated from God by their sin--as were the Gentiles.

Richard79408
Romans 2:28 - 2:29
Now viewing scripture range from the book of Romans chapter 2:28 through chapter 2:29...

Romans Chapter 2

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
 

Boaz

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0bed said:
Jesus did not end the law, he strengthened it, but as it is impossible to keep the law, Jesus provided a way of escape by paying the penalty for our sins, which is death, on the cross. Here are the commandments of Jesus, who is GOD with us.

1. "Forgive everybody of all their offences against you."
2. "You must be born again."
3. "Abide in me, and let me abide in you."
4. "Let people see your good works." (do not hide your light under a basket.)
5. "End disputes quickly."
6. "Whatever causes you to sin, get rid of it."
7. "Do not swear oaths at all."
8. "Do not return offence for offence." (Turn the other cheek.)
9. "Give what people ask of you, and give more than is required." (Go the extra mile.)
10. "Love your enemies and those who work against you."
11. "Give to the poor to please God, not to gain approval from other people."
12. "Pray privately and simply, not to impress other people."
13. "Make your prayers be like the Lord’s Prayer."
14. "When you fast, do it secretly, not for show."
15. "Store up your treasures in heaven, not on earth."
16. "Do not worry about your material needs."
17. "Do not worry about the future."
18. "Make God your highest priority, and he will take care of all your needs."
19. "Do not judge other people." (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
20. "Do not give holy things to dogs or cast your pearls before swine."
21. "Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, comfort those in distress."
22. "Follow the narrow path to life." (enter by the narrow gate.)
23. "Beware of false prophets."
24. "Exercise power over unclean spirits."
25. "Love little children, do not despise them."
26. "Do not take the titles 'master' or 'father' for yourself."
27. "Resolve disputes in an orderly way, like this . . . "
28. "Do not oppose other believers in Christ who are not in your group."
29. "Have total faith in God for everything."
30. "Be like the good Samaritan." (go, and do likewise.)
31. "Love other people as i have loved you"
32. "Eat bread and drink wine in remembrance of me."
33. "Wash one another's feet."
34. "Be merciful."
35. "Go and teach all nations, baptising them."
36. "Keep my commandments."
37. "Be prepared for your master to return."



Luke Chapter 1

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
 

0bed

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Boaz said:
The Mosaic law or the 613 mitzvot laws were laws given by the Levite Priests, they are man-made laws like our civil law and not the God given Commandments. The commandments can be kept. The ordinances is the religious ceremony or the ritual, which likewise can be kept.
 

heretoeternity

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The 613 sacrificial, circumcision, feast, festival etc laws are the Mosaic laws..they passed away as per Acts 15, with the except of the four mentioned. God's law the ten commandments were written specifically by God and are in effect forever.
 

FHII

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heretoeternity said:
The 613 sacrificial, circumcision, feast, festival etc laws are the Mosaic laws..they passed away as per Acts 15, with the except of the four mentioned. God's law the ten commandments were written specifically by God and are in effect forever.
WRONG!

they passed too, and i can give verses that without a doubt show that. Yet.... You probably will deny it.
 

heretoeternity

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FHII said:
WRONG!

they passed too, and i can give verses that without a doubt show that. Yet.... You probably will deny it.
Jesus said in Matthew 5 "heaven and earth will pass away and nothing will be changed in the law (God's law) under all is fulfilled"....look out the window and see heaven and earth are still here, so I guess all has not been fulfilled..obviously He is referring to His return...
Apostle Paul said in Romans..."do we make void the law through faith?" God forbid. We establish the law!...
and Apostle John said in 1st John "sin is transgression of the law"...
 

0bed

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heretoeternity said:
Jesus said in Matthew 5 "heaven and earth will pass away and nothing will be changed in the law (God's law) under all is fulfilled"....look out the window and see heaven and earth are still here, so I guess all has not been fulfilled..obviously He is referring to His return...
Apostle Paul said in Romans..."do we make void the law through faith?" God forbid. We establish the law!...
and Apostle John said in 1st John "sin is transgression of the law"...
In verses 21-22 of the chapter you quote, Jesus gives an example of God's law.

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:21-22 KJV


Below is an example of the Mosaic Law. Which law do you think Jesus is talking about. Is it the Ten Commandments, or is it the law of Moses?

487 Save someone being pursued even by taking the life of the pursuer — Deut. 25:12
545 The courts must carry out the death penalty of stoning — Deut. 22:24
546 The courts must carry out the death penalty of burning — Lev. 20:14
547 The courts must carry out the death penalty of the sword — Ex. 21:20
548 The courts must carry out the death penalty of strangulation — Lev. 20:10
549 The courts must hang those stoned for blasphemy or idolatry — Deut. 21:22
550 Bury the executed on the day they are killed — Deut. 21:23
555 The court must not kill anybody on circumstantial evidence — Ex. 23:7