Do we even have the correct definition of "saved?"

[bbyrd009]

No,
what I am determines what I say.
And,
what I am is established between the Lord and myself.

ok, ty for the input ok, i was aiming for food for thougt and i think we at least got there

 

[bbyrd009]

Right... So we...His children!... Are resurrected too die again. Never again to exist... Okay... Sounds logical.


Uh huh... So . Ummm, who was it actually that came up? After God had refused to talk to Saul, neither by prophet or priest, dream or vision, He actually allows some witch to raise Samuel? You really believe that men have the power to raise the dead that they may talk with us? Sorry bro, but your understanding of theology is leading you into very strange fields when you start to believe in spiritualism as a basis for your doctrines. That wasn't Samuel. And Saul and his sons were not destined to spend their future with demons.

later for this, it quotes differently than i read? weird. and im out of time for now, see ya at lunch ok

the post stops at "Never again to?"
but i can say on the fly that the Bible--which yall all think is Yahs Word, right?--says "samuel said," and etc, so imo your arg fights "Yahs Word" imo eh. See bc your opinions on speaking to the dead, irrelevant, see? "Samuel said" relevant, "bl said" not so much wadr

 

[Taken]

ok, ty for the input ok, i was aiming for food for thougt and i think we at least got there

My food for thought pertaining to Spiritual Things is based on The Word of God, The Lord Gods Covenant, His Testimony, Scripture and the Same ^ "of those things" ^ which I have and continue to eat and AND drink.

 

[Renniks]

ha well, i guess there's more than one description in the Bible too?

They all harmonize when understood correctly.

 

[Taken]

@ScottA

Ever notice, a particular person repeatedly bad-mouthing "cherry-picking"...WHILE repeatedly "cherry-picking" (inapplicable)
Scriptures and desperately try's to Apply the Scripture TO "other" people?

He either is: psychic, deaf, or too ignorant to comprehend...he was not appointed to declare an others Beliefs...from the Thoughts of his own entangled Carnal grey matter.

Any elementary student of Scripture Knows,
It is ONLY the Individual and God, who is qualified to Declare which Scripture Applies to an Individual...or Not...thus; without cherry-picking...ALL Scripture would Apply the SAME, to All men, and it doesn't.

It is utter Ignorance to believe:
Scripture About a Converted man and Scripture About an UnConverted man Applies the Same to an Individual!

Catholic teaching has done a number on BOL!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[VictoryinJesus]

i would say that Yah will not judge them at all, just like the Bible says?
But i would also say "sacrifice their life for their faith" is an oxymoron, or obv "faith" as a noun at the very least, yes?
another reply would be that, being as how this is an inferred Muslim here, this is an ignorant, however well-intentioned he might be, who has an evil imam that certainly knows better, and has read the Opening of Sur'ahs (which forbids using Islam to justify violence in any form, page 1 literally) and just doesnt care, much like our preachers and pastors, which sounds harsh, but again intentions imo?

I don’t know. Only asked about judged by faith and not beliefs. Was confused over then can we believe anything as long as it is done in Faith? With suicide bombers...although I don’t know, never have met one. Did men tell them to believe this is required of their faith. A test of how much faith they have in Allah. No, not zeroing in on Islam but beliefs. Is Faith in Christ followed by a belief in what man says or what God says? Curious where it says it doesn’t matter what we believe but only faith? Same as saying not judged by works (whether they remain or are burned up)but by faith alone?

 

[amadeus]

I am confidant the translated or transliteration texts of Jesus' teachings into Any language gives the reader the "KNOWLEDGE, necessary" for the Individual Reader to be apprised of Gods Word of The WAY (how) "any man can become"...
Forgiven, saved, born Again, and Forever Alive With the Lord God Almighty...
As well as the Way Any man, "can continue" to be Without the Lord God Almighty Forever.

Glory to God,
Taken

Yes, indeed, if the Spirit is there, even the worst of translations will still work. God will always make a way for a heart hungry and thirsty for His righteousness.

 

[amadeus]

You've quoted this before I think... Or at least maybe a part of it...
KJV John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Do you have any reason to not take this literally?

When and where did Jesus "go"? Did he not "go" to the cross? Did he not return from the cross? Is he not receiving us even now to himself if we will? Today is the Day!

He went to the cross to open up a closed Door/Gate, the one which is the Way to the Tree of Life, which is also Him?
By the time Jesus prayed to His Father in Gethsemene, was he not already no longer in this world of temptations? Had he not already overcome them all? When we have by the Holy Spirit of God in us overcome all of the world, will we not then be where he is?

 

[Taken]

Yes, indeed, if the Spirit is there, even the worst of translations will still work. God will always make a way for a heart hungry and thirsty for His righteousness.

Yes!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

You're kidding yourself. I put both scriptures side by side in reconciling them for all to see the truth, and all you can do is call me names. You reveal yourself and your true nature.

The WHOLE context of the NT makes clear that as born again people - we still stumble in sin from time to time (1 John 1:5-10, Rom. 7:13-25, Gal. 2:11-21).
HOWEVER, we have a way out through Christ.

YOUR position that you "cannot" sin is nothing but arrogance.
Good luck with that . . .

 

[ScottA]

The WHOLE context of the NT makes clear that as born again people - we still stumble in sin from time to time (1 John 1:5-10, Rom. 7:13-25, Gal. 2:11-21).
HOWEVER, we have a way out through Christ.

YOUR position that you "cannot" sin is nothing but arrogance.
Good luck with that . . .

Quotable. You directly contradict, not me, but John/God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Quotable. You directly contradict, not me, but John/God.

Not at all.

1 John 1:5-10 - Here, John includes HIMSELF in saying that if we say we don't sin, we are liars.
Rom. 7:13-25 - Here, Paul admits to a continuing struggle with sin - even though he is born again.
Gal. 2:11-21 - Here, Paul rebukes Peter's sin.

If they were here - they would ALL rebuke your arrogant position . . .

 

[ScottA]

Not at all.

1 John 1:5-10 - Here, John includes HIMSELF in saying that if we say we don't sin, we are liars.
Rom. 7:13-25 - Here, Paul admits to a continuing struggle with sin - even though he is born again.
Gal. 2:11-21 - Here, Paul rebukes Peter's sin.

If they were here - they would ALL rebuke your arrogant position . . .

Bla bla bla...

Here's the "arrogant cherry-picker" folks (his name-calling, not mine), leaving out:

1 John 3:9
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."​

...But, hey, obviously he just doesn't understand.

 

[bbyrd009]

Right... So we...His children!... Are resurrected too die again. Never again to exist... Okay... Sounds logical.

Well we don’t know yet what we will become, right? And there’s something about a new name or something involved? So my guess is that you and your sons will be here with me, since that’s what Scripture says, and really aren’t we mostly all ego maniacs, Worried about our egos living forever?

I’m not saying I know anything OK, but whenever I hear this complaint I guess I’ll call it, that strikes me as a fairly good indication of someone who is very bound up in their ego?

fter God had refused to talk to Saul, neither by prophet or priest, dream or vision, He actually allows some witch to raise Samuel? You really believe that men have the pow

Bro either the Bible is the word or it is not the word; in the Bible says “Samuel said.” Now you can interpret that however you like OK, use whatever justifications seem right to you imo

That wasn't Samuel.

That wasn't Samuel.

OK, so, the Bible says “Samuel said,” and you say “that wasn’t Samuel.” Go from there imo

It isn’t like that’s the only verse we have to rely on, not by any means

 

[bbyrd009]

My food for thought pertaining to Spiritual Things is based on The Word of God, The Lord Gods Covenant, His Testimony, Scripture and the Same ^ "of those things" ^ which I have and continue to eat and AND drink.

No offense, and I know how this sounds OK, but you don’t even know what Word is yet, T; Right now “word” means “Bible” to you, Which you cannot even support with scripture, so, essentially saying “I haven’t read the Bible yet”

 

[bbyrd009]

They all harmonize when understood correctly.

I’ve kind of been waiting for someone to list them, but really they are Ambiguous enough that I’m not sure that would do anything except cause more arguments, but I def agree

 

[bbyrd009]

Was confused over then can we believe anything as long as it is done in Faith?

Well you have not defined “it” there, however I would say that if one has faith in what they are doing, Then they obviously believe, right? But one could believe all day long and have no faith imo

 

[BreadOfLife]

Bla bla bla...

Here's the "arrogant cherry-picker" folks (his name-calling, not mine), leaving out:

1 John 3:9
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."​

...But, hey, obviously he just doesn't understand.

As I admonished you earlier - ALL Scripture must harmonize or it is ALL a lie.

In context - a word that you obviously don't understand - this verse is talking about going back to a LIFE of willful sin. It is NOT talking about the occasional stumbling that Paul admitted to in Romans 7:13-25. If that were the case - then ALL of the following warnings to BORN-AGAIN CHRISTIANS would be a waste of time . . .

Roans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[bbyrd009]

Did men tell them to believe this is required of their faith. A test of how much faith they have in Allah. No, not zeroing in on Islam but beliefs.

Well that is a great Q imo, And for my part I can’t help but compare it to our pastors who are busily signing Contracts for Jesus, and cranking out Mithraists as we speak. So my guess is that certainly the same dynamic applies, And suicide bombers are told that it is a test of their “faith” as a noun, Shirley

 

[bbyrd009]

Yeah I know don’t call you Shirley right LOL