Do we even have the correct definition of "saved?"

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ScottA

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As I admonished you earlier - ALL Scripture must harmonize or it is ALL a lie.

In context - a word that you obviously don't understand - this verse is talking about going back to a LIFE of willful sin. It is NOT talking about the occasional stumbling that Paul admitted to in Romans 7:13-25. If that were the case - then ALL of the following warnings to BORN-AGAIN CHRISTIANS would be a waste of time . . .

Roans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.


Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla...and bla!

Still no 1 John 3:9.

Still hypocritically and "arrogantly" not "harmonizing."
 
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bbyrd009

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Is Faith in Christ followed by a belief in what man says or what God says?
Oh well I don’t know OK, but I do have a great test for that; if it is a belief about the past or the future, it’s likely not from Yah at all, and almost surely from men. And really isn’t that what we mean by “belief” nowadays? Some vapid yak about the past or the future?
 

bbyrd009

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“Beliefs” imo are what Christian “believers” have instead of faith, More or less, as is verified by their use of “faith” as a noun
 

bbyrd009

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Yes, indeed, if the Spirit is there, even the worst of translations will still work. God will always make a way for a heart hungry and thirsty for His righteousness.
I hope I didn’t give the impression that I disagree with that, but is near as I could tell that wasn’t really the subject; translations are usually not made from translations, was my point. Ergo “Chinese king James version“ strikes me as strictly Marketing
 
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amadeus

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I hope I didn’t give the impression that I disagree with that, but is near as I could tell that wasn’t really the subject; translations are usually not made from translations, was my point. Ergo “Chinese king James version“ strikes me as strictly Marketing
No I did not see you disagreeing, but people often don't communicate with each other for various reasons. Whether they are using a printed Bible [any language or version] or they are speaking with their mouths or typing on a computer they often fail to get their message across to the other guy. Error in speech or error in hearing or both!

Sometimes we can actually be speaking God's Word [not talking only about quoting scripture] and it is absolutely Greek to the other guy. God does provide interpreters for anyone who seeking the right first things but is it ever possible that we cannot understand His interpreters? Why would that or should that be so?
 
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ScottA

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Not at all.

1 John 1:5-10 - Here, John includes HIMSELF in saying that if we say we don't sin, we are liars.
Rom. 7:13-25 - Here, Paul admits to a continuing struggle with sin - even though he is born again.
Gal. 2:11-21 - Here, Paul rebukes Peter's sin.

If they were here - they would ALL rebuke your arrogant position . . .
And here (above) you list your own error.

Each of the above verses tells us that by the standards that you yourself have listed from the scriptures, John, Paul and Peter were not "born of God", according to John himself in 1 John 3:9.

As for me, I just pointed out what you could not see and could not reconcile. Which also means you failed the biblical test of:

1 John 4:1
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
...But, hey, thanks -- there are a lot of stuffy would-be Christian hypocrites that don't recon with these truths, that need to hear it too.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Oh well I don’t know OK, but I do have a great test for that; if it is a belief about the past or the future, it’s likely not from Yah at all,

How does “hope of Salvation” fit then? Past, present, or future?
 

mailmandan

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Strong's Concordance
sózó: to save
Original Word: σῴζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sózó
Phonetic Spelling: (sode'-zo)
Definition: to save
Usage: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.
HELPS Word-studies
4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety).

Strong's Greek: 4982. σώζω (sózó) -- to save
 

Waiting on him

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Strong's Concordance
sózó: to save
Original Word: σῴζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sózó
Phonetic Spelling: (sode'-zo)
Definition: to save
Usage: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.
HELPS Word-studies
4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety).

Strong's Greek: 4982. σώζω (sózó) -- to save
Welcome to the forum Dan.
 
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Episkopos

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Strong's Concordance
sózó: to save
Original Word: σῴζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sózó
Phonetic Spelling: (sode'-zo)
Definition: to save
Usage: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.
HELPS Word-studies
4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety).

Strong's Greek: 4982. σώζω (sózó) -- to save


Mainly the preservation of our temporal mortal bodies. Confused by many into a religious ideology based on presumptions.
 
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Waiting on him

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Strong's Concordance
sózó: to save
Original Word: σῴζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sózó
Phonetic Spelling: (sode'-zo)
Definition: to save
Usage: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.
HELPS Word-studies
4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety).

Strong's Greek: 4982. σώζω (sózó) -- to save
Do you feel safe?
 
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BreadOfLife

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And here (above) you list your own error.

Each of the above verses tells us that by the standards that you yourself have listed from the scriptures, John, Paul and Peter were not "born of God", according to John himself in 1 John 3:9.

As for me, I just pointed out what you could not see and could not reconcile. Which also means you failed the biblical test of:

1 John 4:1
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
...But, hey, thanks -- there are a lot of stuffy would-be Christian hypocrites that don't recon with these truths, that need to hear it too.
And that's why I admonished you that cherry-picking Scripture will get you nowhere.

Once you're learned about context - the Scriptures will open up to you in a way they never have before . . .
 

Taken

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The WHOLE context of the NT makes clear that as born again people - we still stumble in sin from time to time (1 John 1:5-10, Rom. 7:13-25, Gal. 2:11-21).
HOWEVER, we have a way out through Christ.

YOUR position that you "cannot" sin is nothing but arrogance.
Good luck with that . . .

@ScottA

1John 1:5-10 is NOT about Born Again people stumbling in sin!

The message is a Declaration to people ...the teacher hopes they comprehend So that:
The listener may believe Like the one speaking...

1 John 1
[3] That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
[4] And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

The listeners were not born Again...they were hearing the message.

[6] If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

And 1 John 8:
A fav of BOL to cherry-pick and proclaim it APPLIES to whomever...

He hasn't a clue the difference between "having" sin and "committing" sin.

"Having" sins applies to every natural born earthling, including Mary.

Every diligent student of the Word of God Knows earthlings Are born in Sin.

1John 1:8
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Any person who says he HAS no sin, is a liar!

Rom 3:23
[23] For all have sinned...

Any person who claims he HAS Never committed sin is a liar.

So what is a person who Makes False Claims for "others", but a liar?

Mary never. Claimed to "have" no sin...
Mary never Claimed to never "commit" sin...
yet every catholic "makes" those claims for her.<---:(

The Lord God has offered A WAY...His Way,
Offered and Available immediately for the last 2,000 + years...

*for a mans sins to be Forgiven;
*for a mans body crucified, washed, sanctified, covered, Kept with Christ;
* for a mans soul restored and saved;
* for a mans spirit born of Gods Seed...
* from the moment of a heartfelt true Confession BY any man that:
"Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God",

That man Accepted and Received The Lord Gods Offering...and Is a new Creature...
And that creature IS forward: forever:
A son of God.

Oh, oh, oh what happened to "the sin he had when he was naturally born???

DUH!!!
Crucifixion ...DEAD body...DEAD sin!!
Covered...with Gods Light.

Funny how BOL thinks he can See pasts Gods Light!

And absolutely a "son of God" never again "commits the sin" "of Standing against God, of Disbelief in the Lord God Almighty"....

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So what "sin" does BOL yap on and on about...?

If a man was Jewish...every Violation Against Mosaic Law was a sin....but so what?

Why does BOL pretend Gentile's are subject to Mosaic Laws? :rolleyes:

Gentile's had no obligation to obey Jewish Laws...
Gentile's SIN, was being against belief in God in Jesus the Christ...

And WHO could forgive a Gentile...of the Sin of Disbelief IN the Lord God...no one, but God Himself.

And "Could" Converted Jews "still violate" "their Law" and that be a Sin unto "them"...
Yes...and what does that have to do with Gentiles? Nothing.

And so is BOL utterly ignorant not knowing he is carrying on to Gentiles, that which only applies to Jews?

A Converted Gentile, can never Again not believe in the Lord God Almighty.

(even if BOL adamantly disagrees with Scriptural TRUTH), no one was directed to Believe or follow him!)

A Converted Jew, can never Again not believe in the Lord God Almighty; but they can violate Jewish Law, which by the Law is a sin unto THEM.
 
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Taken

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That's about the most intelligent thing you've said yet . . .

Every one of the NINE passages I provided debunks your arrogant fantasy that Christians "can't" sin.

Uh Christians can sin...
Converted persons can Never Again Disbelieve believe in the Lord God...which WAS their Sin. They are Free from Sin.