Do We Still Have A Sin Nature...

[bbyrd009]

That would be a yes to my prior question. Sad.

ha you know what they say about answering yourself lol

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

ha you know what they say about answering yourself lol

You answered for yourself. Again.

 

[Peterlag]

Your denying that Apostle Paul taught about sin in our fleshy members (i.e., a sin nature) is NOT... a sign of walking by The Spirit. One of the main purposes of our listening to The Holy Spirit is for teaching us, and that especially involves understanding in God's Word. Paul was warning us in Romans 7 about the "law of sin" in our fleshy members. We are to understand... that, and strive to walk in The Spirit, INSTEAD OF by our flesh.

But WHO ONLY was able to be perfect while in their flesh?

And you want me to believe that YOUR walk is always PERFECT in your flesh, like YOU are Jesus Christ???

NO WAY! You need to read and understand what Paul also taught in Galatians 5 about walking by The Spirit vs. walking by the flesh.

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

The VERY REASON why we must suffer these imperfect flesh bodies today is to show us that we CANNOT BE PERFECT OURSELVES, and that we ALL NEED THE SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST!

So go ahead, be haughty, and lie to yourself, because I well know you cannot go long without having sinned, even though it might be a little sin, because YOU are NOT your own Christ!

Galatians 3:22 Is saying that all under sin before the promise by faith of Jesus Christ. Not after.

 

[bbyrd009]

You answered for yourself. Again.

the "im rubber youre glue attack?" lol
an oldie but a goodie

 

[Davy]

Galatians 3:22 Is saying that all under sin before the promise by faith of Jesus Christ. Not after.

Paul expounds on Galatians 3:22 later in Galatians 5 where he gave an IF... condition.

Gal 5:16-18
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
KJV

I'm really tired of trying to have an honest conversation with you in Christ, but it is obviously not possible because you want to MANIPULATE THE SCRIPTURES to suit your deluded fancy. IF... you ALWAYS were able to walk in The Spirit, then you would NOT NEED LORD JESUS CHRIST! Thus I KNOW you are STILL a sinner, and still will have FUTURE SIN, because you are NOT your own Christ, nor can you ever be!

Thus your refusal to REPENT to Jesus of your future sins, like Apostle John showed we are to do per 1 John 1, therefore, may get you in trouble with Lord Jesus when He returns.

 

[Peterlag]

Paul expounds on Galatians 3:22 later in Galatians 5 where he gave an IF... condition.

Gal 5:16-18
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
KJV

I'm really tired of trying to have an honest conversation with you in Christ, but it is obviously not possible because you want to MANIPULATE THE SCRIPTURES to suit your deluded fancy. IF... you ALWAYS were able to walk in The Spirit, then you would NOT NEED LORD JESUS CHRIST! Thus I KNOW you are STILL a sinner, and still will have FUTURE SIN, because you are NOT your own Christ, nor can you ever be!

Thus your refusal to REPENT to Jesus of your future sins, like Apostle John showed we are to do per 1 John 1, therefore, may get you in trouble with Lord Jesus when He returns.

I don't know why you can't stay in the spirit. Perhaps it's because you are so use to walking by your flesh. Or because the churches teach their people to walk after the flesh. Or because you don't know what the spirit of Christ is. I would think all 3 but mostly the later because your statement that if I can walk in the spirit all of the time then I would not need Christ makes no sense because the spirit is the spirit of Christ. I walk in him. And 1 John is not written to the Christian just like Romans 10:9 is not.

 

[Davy]

I don't know why you can't stay in the spirit. Perhaps it's because you are so use to walking by your flesh. Or because the churches teach their people to walk after the flesh. Or because you don't know what the spirit of Christ is. I would think all 3 but mostly the later because your statement that if I can walk in the spirit all of the time then I would not need Christ makes no sense because the spirit is the spirit of Christ. I walk in him. And 1 John is not written to the Christian just like Romans 10:9 is not.

I'm not the one showing a DENIAL THAT THEY STILL CAN SIN.

That DENIAL you are doing by claiming you always walk in The Spirit and NEVER mess up, is an actual SIN in itself!

 

[Peterlag]

I'm not the one showing a DENIAL THAT THEY STILL CAN SIN.

That DENIAL you are doing by claiming you always walk in The Spirit and NEVER mess up, is an actual SIN in itself!

Well, here they are and I did not write the book...

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Davy]

Well, here they are and I did not write the book...

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

And so you CHOOSE to ADD to God's Word for your own fancy, by wrongly interpreting Paul's WARNINGS to not sin there, as if he meant you can NEVER SIN. That's your fallacy of thinking creating your own fanciful thoughts.

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Is Paul saying that being in Christ means we can NEVER sin again? No, that is not what he is saying, and Romans 7 especially, is a BIG lesson on that. (Notice Romans 7 comes after Romans 6).


3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Since our baptism in Christ represents being baptized in His death, we should also walk in newness of life, meaning by The Spirit, and not by our flesh. Did Paul say just by baptism we automatically do that walk, and can never fall away? Nope!

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Our "old man" is about our previous walk by our flesh, without Christ. Paul reveals that to walk by our flesh means perishing with our flesh, because he shows the flesh is a "body of sin".

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Once again, Paul contrasts the flesh body with our spirit. What is freed at flesh death? Our spirit (Ecclesiastes 12:5-7).


8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him:

Uh oh, Paul just laid a condition there, with that "if we be dead with Christ". Does that mean IF... we walk by The Spirit, then we are dead with Christ? Yeah! exactly. What if a believer falls away later though, and falls back into flesh sin? I've yet to meet anyone born in the flesh that could be perfect in that.


9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over Him.
10 For in that He died, He died unto sin once: but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Those of us in Christ are to RECKON ourselves dead unto sin. The idea of to reckon simply means to 'consider, or deem'. Does Paul by that mean we CANNOT EVER SIN AGAIN? Nope! of course not. And later he warns about that.


12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Did you notice Paul gives the commandment to not let sin reign in our mortal flesh body? and be careful of its lusts? He commands for us to 'yield ourselves unto God', meaning what? It means keep God's commandments. And IF... we do that, then we are no longer under the law.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Paul is not saying that in red like it can't apply both ways for a believer. He is showing we have a CHOICE to yield ourselves to God, or to sin. An example?

A Christian brother goes to a dinner party where alcohol is served. And since wine is very Biblical, Lord Jesus even turning water to wine, this fellow has a glass, and then it turns into a few glasses too many, and when leaving to drive his car, he is all over the road, gets pulled over, and is given a sobriety test proving he is DUI, and goes to jail, being subject to the law. So tell me, has that NEVER happened to any believer on Jesus Christ??? Drunkenness is a sin even in God's Word.


17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
KJV

Paul is speaking all that to them in the positive HOPE sense, like he desires... for them to follow Christ and NOT sin. That is why that is at the same is a WARNING to not sin, because of what it can ultimately mean.

In Romans 7, Paul then shows how even those in the Faith can still... mess up at times and sin, because of the flesh. So we cannot just ISOLATE Romans 6 and Romans 8 by itself, and then omit Romans 7!

 

[Peterlag]

And so you CHOOSE to ADD to God's Word for your own fancy, by wrongly interpreting Paul's WARNINGS to not sin there, as if he meant you can NEVER SIN. That's your fallacy of thinking creating your own fanciful thoughts.

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Is Paul saying that being in Christ means we can NEVER sin again? No, that is not what he is saying, and Romans 7 especially, is a BIG lesson on that. (Notice Romans 7 comes after Romans 6).


3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Since our baptism in Christ represents being baptized in His death, we should also walk in newness of life, meaning by The Spirit, and not by our flesh. Did Paul say just by baptism we automatically do that walk, and can never fall away? Nope!

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Our "old man" is about our previous walk by our flesh, without Christ. Paul reveals that to walk by our flesh means perishing with our flesh, because he shows the flesh is a "body of sin".

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Once again, Paul contrasts the flesh body with our spirit. What is freed at flesh death? Our spirit (Ecclesiastes 12:5-7).


8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him:

Uh oh, Paul just laid a condition there, with that "if we be dead with Christ". Does that mean IF... we walk by The Spirit, then we are dead with Christ? Yeah! exactly. What if a believer falls away later though, and falls back into flesh sin? I've yet to meet anyone born in the flesh that could be perfect in that.


9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over Him.
10 For in that He died, He died unto sin once: but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Those of us in Christ are to RECKON ourselves dead unto sin. The idea of to reckon simply means to 'consider, or deem'. Does Paul by that mean we CANNOT EVER SIN AGAIN? Nope! of course not. And later he warns about that.


12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Did you notice Paul gives the commandment to not let sin reign in our mortal flesh body? and be careful of its lusts? He commands for us to 'yield ourselves unto God', meaning what? It means keep God's commandments. And IF... we do that, then we are no longer under the law.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Paul is not saying that in red like it can't apply both ways for a believer. He is showing we have a CHOICE to yield ourselves to God, or to sin. An example?

A Christian brother goes to a dinner party where alcohol is served. And since wine is very Biblical, Lord Jesus even turning water to wine, this fellow has a glass, and then it turns into a few glasses too many, and when leaving to drive his car, he is all over the road, gets pulled over, and is given a sobriety test proving he is DUI, and goes to jail, being subject to the law. So tell me, has that NEVER happened to any believer on Jesus Christ??? Drunkenness is a sin even in God's Word.


17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
KJV

Paul is speaking all that to them in the positive HOPE sense, like he desires... for them to follow Christ and NOT sin. That is why that is at the same is a WARNING to not sin, because of what it can ultimately mean.

In Romans 7, Paul then shows how even those in the Faith can still... mess up at times and sin, because of the flesh. So we cannot just ISOLATE Romans 6 and Romans 8 by itself, and then omit Romans 7!

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him: This "if" is a lot like the "if" of
Colossians 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ

The word "if" is introducing a simple condition assuming that it's true. In that respect, it may also be rendered "since." The fact that it's an accomplished reality was stated in Colossians 2:12-13 and Ephesians 2:5-6. Thus it could be translated...

Since I have been risen with Christ

Romans 8:1,2, 5, 9

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

That's me.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

That's me.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

That's you in the first part and me in the second part

9 But ye are not in the flesh,

That's me.

 

[Davy]

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him: This "if" is a lot like the "if" of
Colossians 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ

The word "if" is introducing a simple condition assuming that it's true. In that respect, it may also be rendered "since." The fact that it's an accomplished reality was stated in Colossians 2:12-13 and Ephesians 2:5-6. Thus it could be translated...

Since I have been risen with Christ

Romans 8:1,2, 5, 9

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

That's me.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

That's me.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

That's you in the first part and me in the second part

9 But ye are not in the flesh,

That's me.

That's just MORE EXAMPLE OF ERROR by those who CHOP God's written Word up to suit their own fancies.

Anyone can pull a verse here and a verse there, and make it appear to say something other than the FLOW of the Chapter those verses are written in!

 

[Peterlag]

That's just MORE EXAMPLE OF ERROR by those who CHOP God's written Word up to suit their own fancies.

Anyone can pull a verse here and a verse there, and make it appear to say something other than the FLOW of the Chapter those verses are written in!

The problem with your statement is that all of the Scriptures that I quote above are all in context.

 

[quietthinker]

Do We Still Have A Sin Nature...
Ask your husband or your wife!

 

[Davy]

The problem with your statement is that all of the Scriptures that I quote above are all in context.

You love stacking dung on top of dung...

Peterlag said:
"I do not believe we have a sin nature. Every single person I know has told me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian."

The very Romans 7 Chapter by Apostle Paul is about the 'idea' of the "law of sin" dwelling in our flesh members. The NIV calls it a "sin nature", but that's just a translation. The KJV keeps to the Greek literally about sin related to the flesh body.

Thus your statement above COMPLETELY LEAVES the Biblical context of the Romans 7 Chapter!

 

[michaelvpardo]

might be better to concentrate on it?
lol

i say that bc near as i can tell evabody in here requires blood for transgressions eh

Blood for the remission of sin, not just transgressions. Under the OT law atonement was not made for intentional sin, but unintentional transgressions of the law. The New Covenant applies the blood of Christ to ALL sin, including the failure to do what you know is good (what the Catholics refer to as sins of omission. )

 

[bbyrd009]

Blood for the remission of sin, not just transgressions. Under the OT law atonement was not made for intentional sin, but unintentional transgressions of the law. The New Covenant applies the blood of Christ to ALL sin, including the failure to do what you know is good (what the Catholics refer to as sins of omission. )

yes, Roman Catholics are def under the law i guess

 

[michaelvpardo]

yes, Roman Catholics are def under the law i guess

I was a Roman Catholic to the age of 13 and the catholic religion crucifies Christ again for every communion service.
While I heard readings from the gospels and Epistles every Sunday, I never once heard the gospel as revealed in chapter 53 of Isaiah, not once.

 

[Peterlag]

You love stacking dung on top of dung...

Peterlag said:
"I do not believe we have a sin nature. Every single person I know has told me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian."

The very Romans 7 Chapter by Apostle Paul is about the 'idea' of the "law of sin" dwelling in our flesh members. The NIV calls it a "sin nature", but that's just a translation. The KJV keeps to the Greek literally about sin related to the flesh body.

Thus your statement above COMPLETELY LEAVES the Biblical context of the Romans 7 Chapter!

I'm not in the flesh, but in the spirit.

 

[Peterlag]

Do We Still Have A Sin Nature...
Ask your husband or your wife!

I'm not married.

 

[quietthinker]

I'm not married.

why not? ...lol, no, just kidding! :) however, I'm sure you have the credibility to get my drift?