Do We Still Have A Sin Nature...

[ChristisGod]

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to them who are into or know the law. And then by the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

Can you point me to where the bible and not a man made doctrine says the following :

" man has a sin nature "

Thanks !

 

[quietthinker]

Can you point me to where the bible and not a man made doctrine says the following :

" man has a sin nature "

Thanks !

Romans 5:12

 

[ChristisGod]

Romans 5:12

Like I said the passage doesn't say man has a sin nature. Besides one is not guilty as a sinner until they commit a sin.

 

[quietthinker]

Like I said the passage doesn't say man has a sin nature. Besides one is not guilty as a sinner until they commit a sin.

The context is 'in Adam'.....read up to verse 21....it clarifies it.

 

[brightfame52]

peter

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins.

Yeah peter this is what Christs death for His elect accomplished legally before the Law and Justice of God, it removed the sin debt they owed, because their sins were imputed/charged to Christ. So they are legally dead to sin and the law, neither can condemn them. Yet they are sill sinners in themselves.

 

[ChristisGod]

The context is 'in Adam'.....read up to verse 21....it clarifies it.

Where does scripture say every man has a sin nature ?

please qoute it and the version too.

thanks

 

[quietthinker]

Where does scripture say every man has a sin nature ?

please qoute it and the version too.

thanks

Did you read Romans 5:12-21? ...vs 17, look at it and then ask questions. I read the NKJV but any version will be fine....do a comparison.
Spoon feeding makes for immaturity.....you need to use the tools yourself and put your thinking cap on ....then we can converse and go places.

 

[ChristisGod]

Did you read Romans 5:12-21? ...vs 17, look at it and then ask questions. I read the NKJV but any version will be fine....do a comparison.
Spoon feeding makes for immaturity.....you need to use the tools yourself and put your thinking cap on ....then we can converse and go places.

The one and only translation of the Bible that used the phrase “ sin nature “ is the NIV. It’s not in the Bible . It’s a mistranslation .

hope this helps !!!

 

[quietthinker]

The one and only translation of the Bible that used the phrase “ sin nature “ is the NIV. It’s not in the Bible . It’s a mistranslation .

hope this helps !!!

the context of Paul's presentation in Romans 5:12-21 says it all

 

[Peterlag]

Can you point me to where the bible and not a man made doctrine says the following :

" man has a sin nature "

Thanks !

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[Peterlag]

why not? ...lol, no, just kidding! however, I'm sure you have the credibility to get my drift?

I do however, date a whole lot of women. None that are Christian.

 

[Davy]

I'm not in the flesh, but in the spirit.

No, you are STILL living in your FLESH BODY, until you die, or the change at the "last trump". That means your flesh STILL has the potential for causing sin til the day you die! And that is what Apostle Paul was teaching in Romans 7, which YOU REJECT.

So like many deceived in this world, you might as well go ahead and write your own Bible, since you don't care to heed the Bible which God gave His people.

 

[Peterlag]

No, you are STILL living in your FLESH BODY, until you die, or the change at the "last trump". That means your flesh STILL has the potential for causing sin til the day you die! And that is what Apostle Paul was teaching in Romans 7, which YOU REJECT.

So like many deceived in this world, you might as well go ahead and write your own Bible, since you don't care to heed the Bible which God gave His people.

You are living in your flesh. I'm living in the spirit.

 

[Davy]

You are living in your flesh. I'm living in the spirit.

You're living in a dream world, and obviously not prepared for what's coming upon this present world.

 

[robert derrick]

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to them who are into or know the law. And then by the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

Do We Still Have A Sin Nature...​

As with Lucifer and Adam, only if an angel or man wants it.

Some are honest about it, and brag about running with the devil, others are hypocrites that blame it on their birth.

And some are so delusional, that they actually say it's their body's fault when they do sin.

 

[robert derrick]

You are living in your flesh. I'm living in the spirit.

Now, this is an excellent response to those, that want their own flesh to be the cause of their own sinning with the flesh.

I've been trying to say the same thing, but you do it perfectly in the fewest words: you are simply we are living by what we are minding, whether the Spirit, or the flesh.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

All men continue with mortal flesh on earth from cradle to grave, as did Adam and Jesus, but not all men are living like Adam, with their minds on the flesh, rather than like Jesus, with our minds on the Spirit.

It's why Scripture says that the spiritual man minds the things of the Spirit, but the carnal man minds the things of the flesh.

Those who keep pointing to their natural bodies as a reason for sinning, are simply disobedient children who won't get their minds off their own flesh.

Very good job. Keep up the good work of Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The fact that Lucifer did not abide in the truth, proves that he began in the truth.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The fact that Lucifer, and not God, is the father of his own lust and sinning, as are all men and angels, proves that neither angels nor man are created by God with sin, nor lust to sin.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

All men begin with being lightened by Christ coming into the world, not with sin on their minds:

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

 

[Peterlag]

Now, this is an excellent response to those, that want their own flesh to be the cause of their own sinning with the flesh.

I've been trying to say the same thing, but you do it perfectly in the fewest words: you are simply we are living by what we are minding, whether the Spirit, or the flesh.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

All men continue with mortal flesh on earth from cradle to grave, as did Adam and Jesus, but not all men are living like Adam, with their minds on the flesh, rather than like Jesus, with our minds on the Spirit.

It's why Scripture says that the spiritual man minds the things of the Spirit, but the carnal man minds the things of the flesh.

Those who keep pointing to their natural bodies as a reason for sinning, are simply disobedient children who won't get their minds off their own flesh.

Very good job. Keep up the good work of Christ.

I see the "sin nature" as something that existed before Jesus Christ destroyed it when the spirit of Christ came within the believer. This spirit is indeed a life form that is in all Christians and it seems to me one cannot understand and therefore function or be in the spirit if our old nature (which is dead) thinks in it's unrenewed mind that it suppose to be fighting against the new nature. Paul wrote in Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:" That's what I'm talking about. I now understand being in Christ is being in the spirit and neither of them (in Christ or in the spirit) has anything to do with the darn flesh. It now seems perfectly clear to walk in the spirit is the same as putting on the Lord Jesus Christ.

And so in my mind the 4 verses below fit perfectly. Every single person I know has told me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands.

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 5:16,18
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 

[robert derrick]

I see the "sin nature" as something that existed before Jesus Christ destroyed it when the spirit of Christ came within the believer.

If we stick to Scripture, then we see that the children of disobedience are led by the spirit of error, and the obedient are born of and led by the Spirit of truth.

Man is created by Christ, and man can only be born of His Spirit, or the soul is dead. Man cannot be born of another spirit nor angel, because God is the only Creator and Maker of all things.

Take a look at what Scripture says about being something by nature, and it is speaking of doing things by nature, not of being born of that nature.

Man can become natural sinners, not natural born sinners, born of a sin nature.

The soul of man is either alive in Christ, being led of His Spirit, or the soul is dead, and led of the spirit of error, and blinded by the god of this world.

To say the devil or a sin nature 'exists' in a soul, is to say that spirit of the world lives in the soul.

The devil does not live, nor is he alive. He is dead to God but continues to tempt others, the same way that souls of sinners are dead to God, but still continue in mortal bodies.

And so in my mind the 4 verses below fit perfectly. Every single person I know has told me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands.

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 5:16,18
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Romans 7 is about double hearted believers, who at times are doing good, and other times doing evil. The hearts are not yet whole and perfect towards God, to either make the tree all good or make it all evil.

Romans 8 is when we set our hearts aright to Christ, and He delivers us from all sinful works of the flesh, so that there is now no more of the condemnation of Romans 7, because there is no more walking after the flesh, but only in the Spirit.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands.

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 5:16,18
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

The law of Moses does not apply to the NT believers, but the law of Christ certainly does.

The law of Christ commands us to love God with all the heart, and our neighbors as ourselves, and to flee fornication and riotous living.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

The law of Christ is His word and commandment, which His people keep and do not transgress.

Christ does not come to do away with His law, but to deliver His people from transgressing it:

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

The truth you are trying to say is, that seeking the righteousness of God by the works of the law alone, without the Spirit, is hopeless.

The error is not in keeping the law, but in seeking the righteousness of the law outwardly only.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If a Christian finds himself transgressing the law of Christ by doing works of the flesh, as in Romans 7, double heartedness is the problem, not the law, that says the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

The reformation of Christ for His people, is not to do away with law, but to do away with transgressing the law, by being born of and filled with the Spirit.