Do We Still Have A Sin Nature...

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bbyrd009

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We can't have free will. And we don't.
And he tells us this.
God is sovereign. We make our choices, but it is God who sets our steps.
Surely you know the scriptures.

''I believe that every particle of dust that dances in the sunbeam does not move an atom more or less than God wishes – that every particle of spray that dashes against the steamboat has its orbit, as well as the sun in the heavens – that the chaff from the hand of the winnower is steered as the stars in their courses. The creeping of an aphid over the rosebud is as much fixed as the march of the devastating pestilence – the fall of . . . leaves from a poplar is as fully ordained as the tumbling of an avalanche.''
Charles Spurgeon
ha well at least ol Charles is willing to admit that he only has a belief eh
guess he maybe hadnt gotten to the part where God was sorry yet huh
 

Blue Dragonfly's

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You don't k ow most Christians.
You should study Jewish tradition. The law,sin, blood on the head. So to understand you're wrong.

The Jews in that verse were bringing punishment upon themselves for seeking the death of Christ should they have been wrong in seeking his death.

hmm, really? strikes me as something that most Christians actually get right! You dont think you crucified Christ, all by yourself, before the foundation of the world?
 

Johann

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Lot of folks can't read Scripture properly, they tend to spiritualize things written that are meant literally, like the Romans 6:6 verse above about the body of sin. That body of sin Paul points to is about our literal flesh body; it is to be destroyed. It is a body type of THIS PRESENT WORLD, not the world to come. Now Paul's idea in Galatians about crucifying the flesh, that is about after having believed on Jesus, we are to subdue the desires and lusts our flesh causes. You did read that "affections and lusts" part, right?

So just who... wants to keep that flesh type body and live forever? Satan's little workers here on earth. That's actually one of their OCCULT doctrines, the idea of perfection of the flesh. So I'm not making this stuff up.
I hear you, you should read the morphology in Greek on these scriptures, an Imperative, Subjunctive...but I hear you.
If I should mention "Satan's little workers" or "Brood of vipers" I will be ousted, no questions asked! Lol
 

bbyrd009

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You don't k ow most Christians.
You should study Jewish tradition. The law,sin, blood on the head. So to understand you're wrong.

The Jews in that verse were bringing punishment upon themselves for seeking the death of Christ should they have been wrong in seeking his death.
notice how you are speaking as if you knew something i did not? why is that?
 

bbyrd009

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Because there are over 1 billion Christians in this world. And you don't know most of them.
Or haven't you noticed that?
ok, but not sure how that addresses my q, wadr
i dont know this, i should do that…etc
i mean, ty…i guess

but may i suggest that they mostly run to a pattern—Esau, let’s say—and i might know most of them just fine lol; not that that was the subject anyway
hmm, really? strikes me as something that most Christians actually get right! You dont think you crucified Christ, all by yourself, before the foundation of the world?
 
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Blue Dragonfly's

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ok, but not sure how that addresses my q, wadr
i dont know this, i should do that…etc
i mean, ty…i guess

but may i suggest that they mostly run to a pattern—Esau, let’s say—and i might know most of them just fine lol; not that that was the subject anyway
I have no idea what you're trying to say there.
 

ScottA

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The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to them who are into or know the law. And then by the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."
That "sin nature" was dealt with by God condemning all who are born of the flesh to death, that is, all who are born of the mother of sin, Eve, the mother of all living.

Death is the proof.

According to Christ, in confirmation therefore, we must be born again of the spirit of God; which, as He explained, comes from Him by the Holy Spirit, whom He sends to those who believe that He is the Christ and was sent by God for salvation.
 

Peterlag

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That "sin nature" was dealt with by God condemning all who are born of the flesh to death, that is, all who are born of the mother of sin, Eve, the mother of all living.

Death is the proof.

According to Christ, in confirmation therefore, we must be born again of the spirit of God; which, as He explained, comes from Him by the Holy Spirit, whom He sends to those who believe that He is the Christ and was sent by God for salvation.

I'm just a little confused by reading "the spirit of God, as He God explained from Him by the" who? Is the Spirit of God a person? Then there's "that He is the Christ." He who? God or Christ?
 

Peterlag

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Then you are wrapped up in man's dogma, and have left The Word of God.

Rom 7:14-25
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

KJV


Good luck with your OCCULT thinking of perfect flesh, for there is no such thing.

None of your above post applies to me because I'm not in the flesh which is what Romans 7 is talking about. Men and how they toy with their flesh. I am in the spirit. In Christ. In him. It's the next chapter. Romans 8:1-2

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Verse 9...
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-8-8/
... ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit
 

Peterlag

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Gal 2:20 χριστω συνεσταυρωμαι ζω δε ουκετι εγω ζη δε εν εμοι χριστος ο δε νυν ζω εν σαρκι εν πιστει ζω[I live] τη[in] του υιου[the son] του θεου του αγαπησαντος με και παραδοντος εαυτον υπερ εμου

Better, as Rev., in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God. Thus the defining and explicative force of the article τῆ after πίστει is brought out. In faith is better than by faith, although ἐν is sometimes used instrumentally. In corresponds better with ἐν σαρκὶ in the flesh. It exhibits faith as the element in which the new life is lived.

Question
Is Christ "faithing" for you
Or are you to have faith in the Son

Answer: I walk by the faith of Christ because I'm in him. Thus, it's his faith that I function in because I'm in him. It's not I, but Christ liveth in me:
 

ScottA

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I'm just a little confused by reading "the spirit of God, as He God explained from Him by the" who? Is the Spirit of God a person? Then there's "that He is the Christ." He who? God or Christ?
God is One, but has been revealed in ways that have names, each One announced by the former One. In the teaching and understanding of we who are to Him as children slow to learn, that has been His method...not unlike the many methods that we as parents also do in revealing the difficult truths of life to our own children. In other words, first Daddy, then Mister, then by Occupation...of that earthly father who might be a Butcher, or a Cop, or even a Mortician. And why? Because we too are gentle in love.
 

Johann

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Answer: I walk by the faith of Christ because I'm in him. Thus, it's his faith that I function in because I'm in him. It's not I, but Christ liveth in me:
OK brother, I am not here to split hairs, you are right, I am wrong.
That would be a yes to my prior question. Sad.
Keep on running this race brother
Shalom
 

Davy

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I hear you, you should read the morphology in Greek on these scriptures, an Imperative, Subjunctive...but I hear you.
If I should mention "Satan's little workers" or "Brood of vipers" I will be ousted, no questions asked! Lol

Well, understanding about Satan's workers is one of the doctrines both the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia had in common. And how will one be able to produce much fruit if they don't know how to clear Christ's enemies out of their field so that the seed sown can take hold?
 

Davy

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None of your above post applies to me because I'm not in the flesh which is what Romans 7 is talking about. Men and how they toy with their flesh. I am in the spirit. In Christ. In him. It's the next chapter. Romans 8:1-2

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Verse 9...
... ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit

Your denying that Apostle Paul taught about sin in our fleshy members (i.e., a sin nature) is NOT... a sign of walking by The Spirit. One of the main purposes of our listening to The Holy Spirit is for teaching us, and that especially involves understanding in God's Word. Paul was warning us in Romans 7 about the "law of sin" in our fleshy members. We are to understand... that, and strive to walk in The Spirit, INSTEAD OF by our flesh.

But WHO ONLY was able to be perfect while in their flesh?

And you want me to believe that YOUR walk is always PERFECT in your flesh, like YOU are Jesus Christ???

NO WAY! You need to read and understand what Paul also taught in Galatians 5 about walking by The Spirit vs. walking by the flesh.

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV


The VERY REASON why we must suffer these imperfect flesh bodies today is to show us that we CANNOT BE PERFECT OURSELVES, and that we ALL NEED THE SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST!

So go ahead, be haughty, and lie to yourself, because I well know you cannot go long without having sinned, even though it might be a little sin, because YOU are NOT your own Christ!