Do you believe that Jesus doing everything he had done?

[ScottA]

The bible is full of warning about people that don't do the will of the Father. And for that of sinners and how Jesus will deny them their salvation. It's clear that faith without works is dead.

James 2:14-17

Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

And what did Jesus himself say of the people who would deny the less fortunate as James points out?

Matthew 25:35-41

35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

The bible and Jesus and James made it clear that faith alone will not save a person.

You are not considering all that is written.

If you believe that one must "do the will of the Father", this is what Paul referred to when he confessed that "what he willed to do, he did not do." This is why it is written of him. Which is to say--unlike we might think, it is not what one does, but what one "wills" (--just as you have stated), that God takes into accounts.

 

[dev553344]

You are not considering all that is written.

If you believe that one must "do the will of the Father", this is what Paul referred to when he confessed that "what he willed to do, he did not do." This is why it is written of him. Which is to say--unlike we might think, it is not what one does, but what one "wills" (--just as you have stated), that God takes into accounts.

Well it's following or chasing sinful desires in the heart that can be sin. And actions and works that can be sin. Those things can be harmful. Both of them. Those are the commandments of don't do.

And the commandments of do, is a love for God and man. For perfected love it requires actions or works. What is love if it is not acted upon?

Can a father say he loves his children and not care for them.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus said

Matthew 7:21
King James Version

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.



Believing isn't enough if it doesn't cause us to do God's will.

The question is a very personal one.

 

[MatthewG]

I'm the one who believes if your faith is ground in nothing but the finished work of Christ for your salvation, all these other things will be added unto you.

Not just food and clothing, but love for your neighbor, the incentive to do what is right in the eyes of God, the total package of what God wants from man!

Thank you for your response.

Yep! Jesus paid the price for my sin! All I need do is receive the payment- nothing else. That is why Jesus said "tetelestai" For my sin debt was paid in full.

People do not go to hell because they are sinners, they go to hell, beause they rejected what jesus did on the cross for them- so then they must pay for their sins on their own.

Thank you for your response.

Absolutely yes. Nothing else would come near good enough. Only the blood shed by the Lamb of God can save us. In Egypt it was the blood of lambs painted on the doorposts that saved the Israelites from death and destruction and since the time of Jesus it is only His blood which can save us from death and destruction now.

Thank you for your response.

 

[ScottA]

Well it's following or chasing sinful desires in the heart that can be sin. And actions and works that can be sin. Those things can be harmful. Both of them. Those are the commandments of don't do.

And the commandments of do, is a love for God and man. For perfected love it requires actions or works. What is love if it is not acted upon?

Again, you are not considering those who die on their death bed whose last breath confessed Christ.

The scriptures--even if you go on and on about all that is written--do not condemn anyone on the basis of works. They merely state that good works is the evidence of salvation in those who live on.

 

[MatthewG]

Only God can get us into heaven.
The Devil's lie , his gospel, is that Jesus isn't enough, so, you need to chase commandments, works, water.

However, Salvation is not what WE DO....its what God provided for us, On The CROSS= so that by HIS PROVISION< HE can accept us.

And what has to happen so that God can accept you?
You SIN has to be dealt with, as its YOUR SIN, that is keeping you and God apart., and THEN, God has to deal with your dead spirit.

So What does God offer so that your SIN can be forgiven.......so that......God can then fellowship with you by giving you the new Birth.>?

A.) Christ on the Cross. deals with all your sin

B.) God causes your spirit to be BORN AGAIN and now you exist as a "new creation" in Christ".


Reader, have you noticed that heretics change all this, by trying to add to it, water......commandments,......works........self effort?


Listen......think.

If You can earn heaven by Commandment keeping, doing works, getting in the water, or by any type of self effort, then Why did JESUS HAVE TO DIE FOR YOU ?

See what i just showed you?

I just "preached", "the simplicity that is in Christ".

I just "preached", "The Cross", ....

""For the preaching of the Cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.""

"But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;"""


Did you just read, "to the GREEKS" this preaching is "foolishness"?

Who is that?
That is every person, non-jew, who tells you....."well you have to keep commandments, and do works, and get in the water, and try to be like Christ"..... etc, etc, ect works, works, works.

Why do they preach another Gospel?
Because the CROSS is not known to them, so how can they PREACH, what they do not KNOW, and do not ACCEPT, and do not BELIEVE. !

You have to HEAR (discern) these deceivers, or they will have you in a cult, chasing Calvin, and worrying that you can lose your salvation.

Thank you for your response.

 

[MatthewG]

Perhaps @MatthewG. While it is probably enough to get someone into heaven it may not keep them there.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Revelation 12:7-17
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

You think in the afterlife you can live the Heavenly Jerusalem?

 

[dev553344]

Again, you are not considering those who die on their death bed whose last breath confessed Christ.

The scriptures--even if you go on and on about all that is written--do not condemn anyone on the basis of works. They merely state that good works is the evidence of salvation in those who live on.

I disagree. But I will say this. I will never tell someone that you don't have to obey the commandments. That would not be good. Likewise I do try to encourage for people to do good works because that is good. As Christians we should always encourage people to do good and be perfect as God has also told us to be. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

What about a person on their death bed. What about anyone else that is not on their death bed. It is not for me to judge. It is for God to judge. As Jesus has stated in the scriptures, He will be the judge. Some to salvation and some to death. Therefore I cannot say they will be saved or damned.

 

[dev553344]

You think in the afterlife you can live the Heavenly Jerusalem?

I recently watched a Mormon conference talk where they stated that they believe in 3 heavens. And mostly everyone will live in one of them depending on their ability to obey commandments. But they also stated that some will suffer for their sins first.

I also read some of the Book of Enoch from the dead sea scrolls, which I believe more than the Mormon conference talk. They describe 10 heavens. I would have to read more to fully understand what was stated in it.

But who knows @MatthewG I'm not in charge of heaven am I, Jesus is.

 

[MatthewG]

I recently watched a Mormon conference talk where they stated that they believe in 3 heavens. And mostly everyone will live in one of them depending on their ability to obey commandments. But they also stated that some will suffer for their sins first.

I also read some of the Book of Enoch from the dead sea scrolls, which I believe more than the Mormon conference talk. They describe 10 heavens. I would have to read more to fully understand what was stated in it.

But who knows @MatthewG I'm not in charge of heaven am I, Jesus is.

Okay, Devin. Thank you for sharing all of that information sir.

 

[Enoch111]

Do you believe everything that Jesus has done is good enough to get you into heaven?

Why don't you tell us? I believe that you promote some kind of Universalism. So let's hear it for Universalism.

 

[ScottA]

I disagree. But I will say this. I will never tell someone that you don't have to obey the commandments. That would not be good. Likewise I do try to encourage for people to do good works because that is good. As Christians we should always encourage people to do good and be perfect as God has also told us to be. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

What about a person on their death bed. What about anyone else that is not on their death bed. It is not for me to judge. It is for God to judge. As Jesus has stated in the scriptures, He will be the judge. Some to salvation and some to death. Therefore I cannot say they will be saved or damned.

But you have judged them by insisting that one must do good works to be saved.

Look, no one is saying that good words should not be done or advised, or that the commandments not be kept. That is not the issue. Those things are certainly advisable and good and should be done. But because those things cannot be done by all who are saved, it should be clear that it is not a criteria in God's choosing one for salvation: Works, therefore, doesn't enter into His decision, mean that works only follows with those who live on in the world.

 

[Enoch111]

They describe 10 heavens. I would have to read more to fully understand what was stated in it.

And then there is "the 7th heaven" (a figure of speech). If you are in the 7th heaven, you need nothing else.

 

[ScottA]

Why don't you tell us? I believe that you promote some kind of Universalism. So let's hear it for Universalism.

Cracking a smile --sometime you crack me up E!

 

[dev553344]

And then there is "the 7th heaven" (a figure of speech). If you are in the 7th heaven, you need nothing else.

LOL, I don't know about the heavens, I need to read more of the 2nd book of Enoch. I'm getting to it soon I think. Paul did talk about one person caught up to the 3rd heaven.

 

[dev553344]

But you have judged them by insisting that one must do good works to be saved.

Look, no one is saying that good words should not be done or advised, or that the commandments not be kept. That is not the issue. Those things are certainly advisable and good and should be done. But because those things cannot be done by all who are saved, it should be clear that it is not a criteria in God's choosing one for salvation: Works, therefore, doesn't enter into His decision, mean that works only follows with those who live on in the world.

The scriptures do judge. And I support them, but if your accusation is I am judging, then I will go with scripture.

Well if your talking about people that can't do good works then I agree, God will likely judge them according to their ability. But I don't think that is what was mentioned. You mentioned someone on their death bed trying to repent. Not advisable to wait until your dying, then try to repent. We are advised to provide works meet for repentance: Matthew 3:8-10

 

[ScottA]

Well if your talking about people that can't do good works then I agree, God will judge them according to their ability. But I don't think that is what was mentioned. You mentioned someone on their death bed trying to repent. Not advisable to wait until your dying, then try to repent. We are advised to provide works meet for repentance: Matthew 3:8-10

"A man’s heart plans his way, But the Lord directs his steps." Proverbs 16:9

God decides when He draws one to Himself, some of whom are on their death bed before He does. Such is life. He decides.

The point is--it is categorically wrong to categorically determine that those who have no opportunity in the life that God has determined for them, do not qualify to be saved--because you think they should have done otherwise.

This is not about us making good decisions--it's about God making His decision.

 

[Behold]

The question is a very personal one.

The will of the Father is that you believe on the One whom the Father sent.

John 6:40

""""For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day"""

The WILL of God is exactly the same as the WORK of God.

"The work of God is that you believe on Jesus, whom God Sent".

 

[dev553344]

"A man’s heart plans his way, But the Lord directs his steps." Proverbs 16:9

God decides when He draws one to Himself, some of whom are on their death bed before He does. Such is life. He decides.

The point is--it is categorically wrong to categorically determine that those who have no opportunity in the life that God has determined for them, do not qualify to be saved--because you think they should have done otherwise.

This is not about us making good decisions--it's about God making His decision.

Promoting death bed repentance is not good. Not something I will do.

 

[Behold]

So now you're deciding for God? I'll pretend you're not judging someone worthy that might not be. That is also judging. I simply quoted more scripture to support the idea.

But promoting death bed repentance is also giving someone a free pass to sin. Not something I will do.

You feel its not fair that a person lived a long time, as a sinner, and as they draw their last breath, they reach out in Faith to God, and He gives them the Gift of Salvation.
Try not to limit God's mercy according to your prejudice, Devin553344.
See.... God's mercy....its unlike a humans, as God's mercy is Jesus come into the world to save sinners.
And that means all of them who will believe.

God does not put a time limit on Salvation..
He only has one requirement..

"Believe on the ONE whom God sent".