Do you really know Jesus and our Father?

[Jun2u]

There is NO three people (personalities) and all co-equal in one God. There is NO two people and both co-equal in one God.

This identification is found in Isaiah 63:7-14 where all three persons in the Godhead are mentioned doing precisely the same thing. It needs to be remembered that the title “the angel or messenger of Jehovah’s presence” is an appellation which identifies God the Son.

In Isaiah 63:7-8 it is the LORD that is Jehovah who is seen as the savior of the people of God. In verse 9 we are told it is the messenger of His presence that is God the Son. It was He who led them to the place of tranquil rest. And, yet in verses 13-14 we read that it was the Spirit of God who caused the chosen people to rest.

There can be no doubt that the Hebrew Old Testament taught the plurality of persons subsisting in the unity of the Godhead. This, of course, is quite reasonable in as much as the same Author wrote both the Old and the New Testaments.

This is a short version to show one of many doctrines of the Trinity.

In fact, there is a big problem among Christendom today who it is that wrote the Bible. Had they known, all would have listened and obeyed what was written.

There is ONLY ONE superior God. There is ONLY ONE Jesus, our Lord and savior who is today immortal and inferior to his Father.

If Jehovah claimed He is the only Savior and none beside Him in Isaiah 43:11, then Jesus IS Jehovah according to Matthew 1:21!!! As you also affirmed above.

Crystal clear right?

No, it is NOT crystal clear as you make it seem. At least it is foreign to me. I don’t know which Star Wars or Cinderella bible you were quoting.

To God Be The Glory

 

[APAK]

This identification is found in Isaiah 63:7-14 where all three persons in the Godhead are mentioned doing precisely the same thing. It needs to be remembered that the title “the angel or messenger of Jehovah’s presence” is an appellation which identifies God the Son.

In Isaiah 63:7-8 it is the LORD that is Jehovah who is seen as the savior of the people of God. In verse 9 we are told it is the messenger of His presence that is God the Son. It was He who led them to the place of tranquil rest. And, yet in verses 13-14 we read that it was the Spirit of God who caused the chosen people to rest.

There can be no doubt that the Hebrew Old Testament taught the plurality of persons subsisting in the unity of the Godhead. This, of course, is quite reasonable in as much as the same Author wrote both the Old and the New Testaments.

This is a short version to show one of many doctrines of the Trinity.

In fact, there is a big problem among Christendom today who it is that wrote the Bible. Had they known, all would have listened and obeyed what was written.



If Jehovah claimed He is the only Savior and none beside Him in Isaiah 43:11, then Jesus IS Jehovah according to Matthew 1:21!!! As you also affirmed above.



No, it is NOT crystal clear as you make it seem. At least it is foreign to me. I don’t know which Star Wars or Cinderella bible you were quoting.

To God Be The Glory

Jun2u:

The expression of Isaiah 63:9, ‘and the angel of his presence,’ means: I, God Almighty, I am the messenger (angel), of my own/ in my own presence, not an angel that saved Israel. Many Bibles drive this verse meaning home emphatically by placing it in their translations…here are five Bible version examples:

It was no sent one or angel, but he himself who was their saviour: in his love and in his pity he took up their cause, and he took them in his arms, caring for them all through the years. (BBE)

out of all their affliction: not an ambassador, nor a messenger, but himself saved them, because he loved them and spared them: he himself redeemed them, and took them up, and lifted them up all the days of old. (Brenton)

from all their suffering. It was not an angel, but the LORD himself who saved them. In his love and compassion he rescued them. He had always taken care of them in the past, (GNB)

In all their troubles he was troubled, and he was the Messenger who saved them. In his love and compassion he reclaimed them. He always held them and carried them in the past. (GW)

from out ofG1537 allG3956 their affliction.G2347 G1473 NotG3756 an ambassador,G4244.1 norG3761 an angel,G32 butG235 he,G1473 theG3588 LORD G2962 deliveredG4982 them,G1473 because ofG1223 G3588 lovingG25 them.G1473 AndG2532 he sparedG5339 them --G1473 heG1473 ransomedG3084 them,G1473 andG2532 he took them,G353 G1473 andG2532 raised themG5312 G1473 allG3956 theG3588 daysG2250 of theG3588 eon.G165 (ABP+)

(Isa 63:9) In all their affliction He was afflicted, and the angel of His presence saved them: in His love and in His pity he redeemed them; and He bore them, and carried them all the days of old.
(Isa 63:10) But they rebelled and grieved His holy spirit: therefore He was turned to be their enemy, and He Himself fought against them. (ALL NEV)

Now in verse 10 we see that the messenger was in fact God Almighty who is the only one with the source of pure and holy spirit. And he fought against Israel.

Now was you are inferring is that Jesus Christ was the savior of Israel and then fought against them. Is this your truth then? It’s not mine.

Moving on to your jubilant discovery where you think I prove your point/belief with my own words.

(Isa 43:11) I Myself am Yahweh; and besides Me there is no saviour. (NEV)

(Mat 1:21) And she shall give birth to a son, and you shall call his name Jesus; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins. (NEV)

Now if one understands that Yahwh conceived Jesus as the instrument for our salvation, then one must understand that God could not be the human sacrifice for our sins. Jesus had to be a human being.

So, it is obvious that both Jesus and his Father were the two separate and unequal personalities that executed the plan of salvation for mankind. The Father was the brains behind it (the true Father of salvation for mankind) all, and the son the humble servant, the son of man that loved his Father and us; and was the lamb of God. What a perfect team eh? Each had to perform their own parts, uniquely. It was Jesus that had to be tested and required his Father’s help all the way to the cross. Without his Father’s help Jesus would have failed.

And so, no, Jesus is not equal to his Father. Again, as I said already, the Father is superior and alone, above all creation, and the son is inferior as the first of the new creation that we as believers will follow him into immortality.


Bless you,



APAK

 

[Enoch111]

And so, no, Jesus is not equal to his Father. Again, as I said already, the Father is superior and alone, above all creation, and the son is inferior as the first of the new creation...

Since God the Father addresses God the Son as "God" -- not once but twice in the same passage -- Jesus cannot be *inferior* to the Father.

 

[brakelite]

Since God the Father addresses God the Son as "God" -- not once but twice in the same passage -- Jesus cannot be *inferior* to the Father.

I agree, after all, Jesus is His Father's Son, and with God, all things are perfect, so no, 'inferior' is going too far. But I do believe that in one area, the Son is not the equal...subordination. Even in the new earth, Jesus submits all to His Father's rule and authority. 1 Cor.15:24-28.

 

[APAK]

I agree, after all, Jesus is His Father's Son, and with God, all things are perfect, so no, 'inferior' is going too far. But I do believe that in one area, the Son is not the equal...subordination. Even in the new earth, Jesus submits all to His Father's rule and authority. 1 Cor.15:24-28.

brakelite: A little rant and not anything you have to respond to. You have heard this before from me using different words.

Saying Jesus is inferior to God is saying he is not God. The word ‘Inferior’ is not a nasty, derogatory or blasphemous word as applied to Jesus. Saying Jesus is inferior is because Jesus was a born human being as the son of God, made a little lower than the angels.

I know the subject of who Jesus is quite straightforward and we ALL agree UNTIL we begin to think or speak of his work for our salvation. That’s when all logic and scripture go out the window and we invent our own emotional compassionate and blinding made-up version of Jesus as either being God or a divine being through whatever mysterious methods our minds create, as a mixture of secular (usually pagan) theory and misapplies scripture. Then we must defend it for life, never coming to the truth. We have boxed ourselves into a corner. We have a clever built-in ‘personal’ ‘feel-good’ defensive posture regarding Jesus. No wonder scripture interpretation becomes so difficult to agree on.

There are not several natures of Jesus. He has always had one nature whilst on earth and even in heaven today. On earth he had a human nature and possessed the power of his Father. In heaven he has a divine nature and possesses the power of God. The same goes for all believers with a much, much less degree of power from God.

I don’t think we can justify stretching and twisting Jesus into something we want him to be because of our insecurities and fear.

Like into these ridiculous choices:

On earth: Jesus equal with God and is God and is also a human being.

On earth: Jesus equal with God and is not God although is a divine god and a human being

On earth: Jesus less that God and is God and is also a human being.

On earth: Jesus less that God and is not God and is a divine god and a human being.

We are quick to label Jesus whilst he was on earth so what is Jesus in heaven today? Not so sure anymore, or never thought about it?

In Heaven: Jesus equal with God and is God and is also a human being.

In Heaven: Jesus equal with God and is not God although is a divine god and a human being

In Heaven: Jesus equal with God and is God although is a divine god

In Heaven: Jesus equal with God and is God

In Heaven: Jesus less that God and is God and is also a human being.

In Heaven: Jesus less that God and is not God and is a divine and a human being.

In Heaven: Jesus less that God and is not God and is a divine god

In Heaven: Jesus less that God and is not God


These are my choice based on untwisted and stretched out scripture:

On earth: Jesus less than (inferior to) God and is not God and has the power of God and is a human being

In Heaven: Jesus less than (inferior to) God and is not God and has the power of God and is a divine god


Bless you,

APAK

 

[Helen]

@APAK You mention earth here, and heaven here....but what about who He was before the cross?

Thanks...H

 

[APAK]

@APAK You mention earth here, and heaven here....but what about who He was before the cross?

Thanks...H

I though the earth and heaven view would suffice and cause reflection if he did actually exist before his birth. And for those that think he did exist before this time, then as what? Then does the pre-earth, earth and heaven view reflect scripture or not.

Bless you

APAK

 

[Helen]

I though the earth and heaven view would suffice and cause reflection if he did actually exist before his birth. And for those that think he did exist before this time, then as what? Then does the pre-earth, earth and heaven view reflect scripture or not.

Bless you

APAK

Well my background is out of Gen. The Father thought ( conceived) it.
The Son spoke it. And the Holy Spirit performed it.

How could the Lamb be slain from before the foundation of the world...if He 'was-not.'

Sorry for maybe getting off topic.

 

[APAK]

Well my background is out of Gen. The Father thought ( conceived) it.
The Son spoke it. And the Holy Spirit performed it.

How could the Lamb be slain from before the foundation of the world...if He 'was-not.'

Sorry for maybe getting off topic.

Helen:
Rev 13:8 can be a little confusing although it is not a literal statement. It is symbolic with a very literal meaning.
Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

It means that God already chose and planned Christ to be born in the future when he did and to be slain. He would be slain for all mankind (before and after Christ) so they could be saved. There was literal slaying of Christ before creation or before his birth.

It is a similar verse as 2 Timothy 1:9 "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"

And again, said beautifully in:

(Eph 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
(Eph 1:4) in that He chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before Him in love.
(Eph 1:5) Having foreordained us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
(Eph 1:6) to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the beloved.
(Eph 1:7) In whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace,
(Eph 1:8) which He lavished on us in all wisdom and prudence,
(Eph 1:9) making known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure which He purposed in him,
(Eph 1:10) in a plan which runs to the fullness of the times: To sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth.
(Eph 1:11) In whom also we were made His heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who does all things after the counsel of His will,
(Eph 1:12) so that we who had first hoped in Christ should be for the praise of His glory.
(Eph 1:13) In whom you also believed, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation, and were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
(Eph 1:14) which is a guarantee of our inheritance, of the final redemption of God's own possession, for the praise of His glory. (ALL NEV)

God planned Jesus’ arrival or birth in mankind's future time line to be slain for all mankind.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[APAK]

I left out the key word 'no' in 'There was (no) literal slaying of Christ before creation or before his birth.' in my previous post...

 

[Helen]

I left out the key word 'no' in 'There was (no) literal slaying of Christ before creation or before his birth.' in my previous post...

Thanks for the other post too..
As God is outside of time, therefore before it happened it had happened.

I go by Phil 2 Jesus laid aside His glory to come here as man, then picked it up again afterward.

I guess I came at it differently ...maybe brainwashed, maybe not.
This is something God would have to speak sovereignly to me about before I could believe it. At the moment I can't "go there".

Bless you my brother....H

 

[Dcopymope]

"Do you really know Jesus and our Father?"

Nope, but I do know of him, very, very well in fact. But I'd be more than happy to meet him face to face someday as many others claim they have.

How can one know God our Father and Jesus if we lay obstacles in our path to understanding? We add or modify scripture to suit our own theories.

As I recall, you are the one who'd much prefer 1 John 5:7 be removed entirely since its allegedly a "forgery", those three that bare record in heaven. If that's not modifying the scripture to suit your own theories, then I don't know what is...............

 

[Nancy]

Well my background is out of Gen. The Father thought ( conceived) it.
The Son spoke it. And the Holy Spirit performed it.

How could the Lamb be slain from before the foundation of the world...if He 'was-not.'

Sorry for maybe getting off topic.

"How could the Lamb be slain from before the foundation of the world...if He 'was-not.''

Spot on sister.

 

[APAK]

Nope, but I do know of him, very, very well in fact. But I'd be more than happy to meet him face to face someday as many others claim they have.



As I recall, you are the one who'd much prefer 1 John 5:7 be removed entirely since its allegedly a "forgery", those three that bare record in heaven. If that's not modifying the scripture to suit your own theories, then I don't know what is...............

First off you do know there are different translations of the Bible? Second, there are some translations that have 1 John 5:7 and even verse 8 in error like the KJV. Third I did not want to delete 1 John 5:7 at all only the KJV etc; these only support a trinity theory, done deliberately.

Now read this carefully, the correct translations either made 1 John 5:7 the last sentence of 1 John 5:6 or made 1 John 5:7 the beginning sentence of 1 John 5:8

Here are some examples of correct meaning of 1 John 5: 7-8:

(1Jn 5:7) And it is the Spirit that testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
(1Jn 5:8) For there are three who testify, the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three agree in one. (ALL NEV)

(1Jn 5:7) For there are three that testify—
(1Jn 5:8) the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and these three are one. (Tree of Life Version)

(1Jn 5:7) Because there are three who bear witness: Footnote: As per early Gk. text. Later MSS contain additions. See Explanatory Notes, ‘Comma Johanneum’.
(1Jn 5:8) the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement. (ALL The scripture 2009)


Here are just three that were forged by trinitarian translators:

(1Jn 5:7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(1Jn 5:8) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. (ALL KJV)

(1Jn 5:7) For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
(1Jn 5:8) And there are three that bear testimony on earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. (ALL Webster)

(1Jn 5:7) because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these—the three—are one;
(1Jn 5:8) and three are who are testifying in the earth , the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are into the one. (Young’s Literal Translation).

Now fortunately most versions are now correct or near correct (over 80 percent of them).

If you don’t believe my words here is another source saying the same type of thing:

Verse inserted into the Greek in the 16th century AD to support the Catholic trinity doctrine. Notice that even though it was not added until the 16th century, this verse has still found its way into all major Catholic and Protestant Bibles, including the King James Version.
-The History of the Bible; Textual Criticism by V.S. Herrell - 2nd expanded edition

Thanks for the attention with the large bold black font. It is not required in the future, I didn’t need that attention unless it is for you.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Dcopymope]

First off you do know there are different translations of the Bible?

Yep.

Here are just three that were forged by trinitarian translators:

(1Jn 5:7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(1Jn 5:8) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. (ALL KJV)

(1Jn 5:7) For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
(1Jn 5:8) And there are three that bear testimony on earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. (ALL Webster)

(1Jn 5:7) because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these—the three—are one;
(1Jn 5:8) and three are who are testifying in the earth , the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are into the one. (Young’s Literal Translation).

Now fortunately most versions are now correct or near correct (over 80 percent of them).

If you don’t believe my words here is another source saying the same type of thing:

Verse inserted into the Greek in the 16th century AD to support the Catholic trinity doctrine. Notice that even though it was not added until the 16th century, this verse has still found its way into all major Catholic and Protestant Bibles, including the King James Version.
-The History of the Bible; Textual Criticism by V.S. Herrell - 2nd expanded edition

Thanks for the attention with the large bold black font. It is not required in the future, I didn’t need that attention unless it is for you.

Bless you,

APAK

......Yeah, I know all about the verse allegedly being a 16th century forgery, but the verse appearing in old Latin translations (not the vulgate) dating back to the sixth and seventh century proves this narrative to be hog wash, and there were Christians that quoted it dating all the way back to the second century. The verse appearing in billions of king James Bibles over 400 years is no coincidence or mistake. God promised to preserve his word, and he does not make mistakes. Modify the scriptures to your liking like the rest of the world if you want, that will be between you and God when the time comes. The least you can do is not be a hypocrite about it.

 

[Jun2u]

It means that God already chose and planned Christ to be born in the future when he did and to be slain. He would be slain for all mankind (before and after Christ) so they could be saved. There was (no) literal slaying of Christ before creation or before his birth.

Firstly, Christ was born to be the Savior of the world, that is in all the world, He is the only Savior (none besides Him), but NOT to be slain or to redeem the sins of each and every human being (Matthew 1:21; John 3:17).

Secondly, if Christ did not die literally before the foundation of the world, there could no one in the Old Testament that can become saved!

I could lay a BOMB on you, but you will NOT understand. But instead, I will put it this way: “Have you read Hebrews 9:16-17 where it stipulates that a testament cannot be enforced unless the testator dies!”

A testament is a synonym for “agreement”, “covenant”, or “Gospel,”
then a few verses down we read that, “without the shedding of blood is no remission” (of sins), Hebrews 9:22.

So when Jesus hung on the cross, He said, “It is finished!” What was finished? The Atonement of course. But the words He uttered, “it is finished” is of no effect because He was still alive, remember Hebrews 9 above?

How can one know God our Father and Jesus if we lay obstacles in our path to understanding? We add or modify scripture to suit our own theories. We interpret them to suit our own theories. We believe and confess these conclusions as our truth for salvation.

To some the above is true but to a child of God, it will never happen for the Holy Spirit indwells the believer.

Concerning 1 John 5:7-8 will NOT matter what translation you read, you will not get the gist or meaning because you are not spiritual. It can only be spiritually discerned.

"Do you really know Jesus and our Father?"

I sure do according to what Scriptures declare. NOT as some who takes a verse here and there that apparently seem to be contradictory then create a false premise. A child of God listens to the Shepherd and he is known by his Shepherd. Although the child of God does not understand the Trinity except what God has revealed to him through Scriptures, he believes the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons that subsist in the Godhead.

I would like to challenge you and those who believe as you do who teach the false premise that Jesus is not Jehovah. Please go to the Bible Study Forum, and click on the topic “The Doctrine of the Trinity As Taught in Scripture.” And let the reader decide who is the more faithful to the word of God, the Trinitarians or the non-Trinitarians.

To God Be The Glory

 

[APAK]

Firstly, Christ was born to be the Savior of the world, that is in all the world, He is the only Savior (none besides Him), but NOT to be slain or to redeem the sins of each and every human being (Matthew 1:21; John 3:17).

Secondly, if Christ did not die literally before the foundation of the world, there could no one in the Old Testament that can become saved!

I could lay a BOMB on you, but you will NOT understand. But instead, I will put it this way: “Have you read Hebrews 9:16-17 where it stipulates that a testament cannot be enforced unless the testator dies!”

A testament is a synonym for “agreement”, “covenant”, or “Gospel,”
then a few verses down we read that, “without the shedding of blood is no remission” (of sins), Hebrews 9:22.

So when Jesus hung on the cross, He said, “It is finished!” What was finished? The Atonement of course. But the words He uttered, “it is finished” is of no effect because He was still alive, remember Hebrews 9 above?

How can one know God our Father and Jesus if we lay obstacles in our path to understanding? We add or modify scripture to suit our own theories. We interpret them to suit our own theories. We believe and confess these conclusions as our truth for salvation.

To some the above is true but to a child of God, it will never happen for the Holy Spirit indwells the believer.

Concerning 1 John 5:7-8 will NOT matter what translation you read, you will not get the gist or meaning because you are not spiritual. It can only be spiritually discerned.

"Do you really know Jesus and our Father?"

I sure do according to what Scriptures declare. NOT as some who takes a verse here and there that apparently seem to be contradictory then create a false premise. A child of God listens to the Shepherd and he is known by his Shepherd. Although the child of God does not understand the Trinity except what God has revealed to him through Scriptures, he believes the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons that subsist in the Godhead.

I would like to challenge you and those who believe as you do who teach the false premise that Jesus is not Jehovah. Please go to the Bible Study Forum, and click on the topic “The Doctrine of the Trinity As Taught in Scripture.” And let the reader decide who is the more faithful to the word of God, the Trinitarians or the non-Trinitarians.

To God Be The Glory

Jun2u:

You said.."Firstly, Christ was born to be the Savior of the world, that is in all the world, He is the only Savior (none besides Him), but NOT to be slain or to redeem the sins of each and every human being (Matthew 1:21; John 3:17)."

I do agree with you on this point....just a clarification though. Jesus is the savior although his Father and ours is also the savior for a different role and part in our salvation. The Father was the planner and brains behind it all...

(Mat 1:21) And she shall give birth to a son, and you shall call his name Jesus; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.(NEV)
(Joh 3:17) For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. (NEV)

Now the context of this verse Mat 1:21 suggests it audience is strictly to the Judahites living in Judea and around Judea. And appropriately then saying that Jesus will save his people. Of course, as we know all Judahites would not be saved because of their unbelief. Later, all would have the opportunity to receive the gospel and be saved. We know this same invitation would be given to the other nations through the disciples and apostles (John 3:17).

I just expanded you statement above.
--------------------------

You said.."Secondly, if Christ did not die literally before the foundation of the world, there could no one in the Old Testament that can become saved!"

Hmmm, not catching your drift here….What am I missing here, was there a previous crucifixion of Christ before about 33 AD?

Let me try and figure you out. I know this reasoning is not explicit in scripture at all. So where in scripture can you form implicit statements concerning Christ’s previous crucifixion?

Let me use your Hebrews references..

(Heb 9:16) For where a will is of power, there must of necessity be the death of him that made it.
(Heb 9:17) For a will is of force where there has been death; it does not have power while he that made it lives.
(Heb 9:18) Therefore even the first covenant has not been dedicated without blood.
(Heb 9:19) For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
(Heb 9:20) saying: This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded for you.
(Heb 9:21) Moreover the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry he sprinkled in like manner with the blood.
(Heb 9:22) And according to the law, I may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood; and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. (ALL NEV)

Now if this your source for your 2nd crucifixion of Christ, then you are creative with scripture and its meanings?

The ‘will’ was executed with power every time blood was split on the alter during the 1st covenant. This was the covenant concerning the Law. The 2nd Covenant core was Christ’s atonement for our sins only once, and his ‘will’ was also executed with power after he died with shed blood under the altar of God in heaven.

Now it’s a real stretch to say Christ was also the sacrifice for the 1st Covenant.

Jun2u. You believe in a Trinity model and I do not. This belief of only one God and only one son of God did not occur to me just yesterday. The spirit led me to this conclusion through experiences, and scripture and what was laid on my heart AFTER I was 'saved.'

Bless you,

APAK