You don't have to visit "that site" since the information is already "on this site"
No problem.
You don't have to listen.
For the edification of God's elect.
Doctors of the Church: St. Athanasius of Alexandria
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No problem.
You don't have to listen.
For the edification of God's elect.
Well, maybe someone else from this site will spend an hour waiting to hear two points of a discussion and then offer it into the discussion. Sorry you can't put the message here. It must be really secret somehow. So important that I watch the rest of the video. I would think two points would take about 1 minute to say. So I'm guessing 59 minutes are selling other things I didn't want to buy. Cheers!
OK, I'll be honest with you @Johann. Given a simple statement, I can easily decide for myself if it's correct or false with the bible teachings I've read and believe. Two statements no problem. But I don't really want to spend an hour listening to someone try to steer and convince me of beliefs that may or may not be correct. If it is correct then I've just spent an extra 59 minutes wasting my time. If it's incorrect then I've also spent 59 minutes wasting my time. Should have talked to someone else and spent 1 minute to decide.
My time has value to me. I could spend it attempting to make money or working for God.
Just thought you should know that.
Is the Mass propitiatory? Yes/no
57,550 views Streamed live on Sep 25, 2022
Among evangelicals, 30% reject the deity of Christ, 42% believe that God accepts the worship of all religions, and 25% believe that God counts a person as righteous because of his works (not because of one’s faith in Christ). As Americans, we live in a community that is dominated by roman catholicism. In this sermon, Mike Gendron visits Revolve and outlines the sufficiency of the Bible and the sufficiency of Jesus Christ.
If you’d like to learn more about Mike, please visit his ministry’s website: Proclaiming the Gospel - Home Page
Subscribe to our channel for more biblical, Christ-centered sermons, and visit Revolve Bible Church | VISIT to learn more about our church.
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Posted: April 14, 2014
The Lord Jesus was immersed in the wrath of a sin-avenging God so that divine justice could be appeased. He suffered excruciating pain as He bore the sins of His people so that eternal life could be offered as a gift of His grace. He suffered and died once for all sin for all time, there are no more offerings for sin (Heb. 10:10, 12, 18).
The Catholic Church insults and blasphemes the perfect, sufficient, finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ by foolishly declaring, "The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice...the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner, this sacrifice is truly propitiatory." (Catechism, paragraph 1367). We must ask Catholics, how can it be the same sacrifice when Christ shed His precious blood on Calvary and the Eucharist is offered in an unbloody manner? How can it be the same when Calvary's sacrifice was for all the sins of every believer and the Eucharist is only for past sins of Catholics; Calvary's sacrifice was only for the living who repent and believe, the Eucharist is for the living and also for the dead who are suffering in Purgatory.
Jesus Christ, the perfect High Priest offered Himself, the perfect sacrifice to the perfect God and then cried out in victory, "It is finished" (John 19:30). Contrast this with the Eucharist which is offered by false apostles and deceitful workmen, who disguise themselves as apostles of Christ. After offering the blasphemous re-presentation of Jesus on an altar, instead of a cross, the fake sacrifice is offered again and again to keep Catholics in bondage to religious deception.
Rome dares to say, "Every time this mystery is celebrated, 'the work of our redemption is carried on'" (paragraph 1405). This statement violates the Word of God which declares that Jesus entered heaven once for all, having obtained eternal redemption (Heb. 9:12). Rome also declares the Eucharistic sacrifice is propitiatory, which means that divine justice is satisfied every time it is offered. And if you don't believe this insult to Christ, then you are anathema according to Canon 3 of the Council of Trent. Catholics will either be condemned by their religion if they repent and believe the Gospel or be condemned by God if they continue to believe this lie.
You agree Dev?
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Posted: May 18, 2023
I love the Catholic people and will spend the rest of my life on earth proclaiming the glorious Gospel of grace to them. However, a distinction needs to be make between the religion that deceives them and the precious souls who have been deceived. There is nothing more wicked and evil than to deceive people about life’s most critical issue which is, How can a sinner be made right with God? For a religion to give the wrong answer to this sobering question is to propagate the most lethal and deadly lie anyone could ever speak.
Pointing people to the wide road that leads to destruction is a most despicable act and an abomination to God (Prov. 12:22). God will destroy those who speak falsehood because He abhors the man of deceit (Psalm 5:6). It is for these reasons I have come to hate the institution known as the Roman Catholic Church.
Is my hatred justified? According to God’s Word it is. The psalmist wrote, "Hate evil, you who love the Lord" (Psalm 97:10). He hated every false way and despised falsehood (119:128,163). The battle for the souls of men is a battle between the truth of God’s Word and the lies of the devil. We are to "put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against [fn]flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places” (Ephesians 6:11-12).
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Another Jesus
Is the Jesus of the Roman Catholic Church the biblical Jesus? Knowing and believing the real Jesus is critical because Jesus said, "If you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins" (John 8:24). A different Jesus is preached by many deceivers (2 Corinthians 11:3-4) who deny His finished work of redemption.
The Mormons preach Jesus is the brother of Lucifer and was a man who became God. The Jehovah Witnesses preach Jesus was not God but claim he was Michael the arch angel. Roman Catholicism preaches a Jesus that was unable to purge all sin or pay the complete penalty for sin.
The Biblical Jesus assures Christians they have been saved from condemnation. "Now that we have been justified by His blood, it is all the more certain that we shall be saved by Him from God's wrath" (Roman 5:9). The one time, perfect and all sufficient sacrifice of Jesus completely satisfied the wrath of God (1 John 2:2). Roman Catholicism denies this fundamental teaching and deceives its people into believing that the sacrifice of the Mass satisfied God's wrath not only for the sins of the living but also for the sins of the dead (Canon 3, Council of Trent). Catholics are cursed with anathema by their church if they claim they are saved from God's wrath, (Canon 30, Council of Trent). Catholics know Jesus only as a "gate opener" to heaven. For Catholics to go through the gates of heaven they must save themselves through the Mass and sacraments.
The Jesus of the Bible expiates sin. "Through His blood, God made Him the means of the expiation for all who believe" (Roman 3:25). Yet the Catholic Church teaches Catholics must expiate their own sins. "This may be done through the sorrows, miseries and trials of this life and, above all, through death. Otherwise the expiation must be made in the next life through fire and torments of purifying punishments" (Vatican Council II).
The Jesus of the Bible is the only mediator between God and man (I Timothy 2:5), yet the Roman Catholic Church offers Mary as the mediator. Pope Pius IX proclaimed that "God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: that we obtain everything through Mary."
The Jesus of the Bible claimed He was the only way to the heavenly Father (John 14:6). Vatican II denies this by stating, "the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst who are the Moslems."
So why does the Roman Catholic Church hide the real Jesus from its followers? Because the real Jesus sets people free! In contrast, the Roman Catholic Church maintains control of its people through legalistic rituals, sacraments and threats of anathema's. The biblical Jesus saves believers from the bondage of sin, deception and religion.
I love the Catholic people and will spend the rest of my life on earth proclaiming the glorious Gospel of grace to them. However, a distinction needs to be make between the religion that deceives them and the precious souls who have been deceived. There is nothing more wicked and evil than to deceive people about life’s most critical issue which is, How can a sinner be made right with God? For a religion to give the wrong answer to this sobering question is to propagate the most lethal and deadly lie anyone could ever speak.
Pointing people to the wide road that leads to destruction is a most despicable act and an abomination to God (Prov. 12:22). God will destroy those who speak falsehood because He abhors the man of deceit (Psalm 5:6). It is for these reasons I have come to hate the institution known as the Roman Catholic Church.
Is my hatred justified? According to God’s Word it is. The psalmist wrote, "Hate evil, you who love the Lord" (Psalm 97:10). He hated every false way and despised falsehood (119:128,163). The battle for the souls of men is a battle between the truth of God’s Word and the lies of the devil. We are to "put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against [fn]flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places” (Ephesians 6:11-12).
----------------------------------------------------------------
Another Jesus
Is the Jesus of the Roman Catholic Church the biblical Jesus? Knowing and believing the real Jesus is critical because Jesus said, "If you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins" (John 8:24). A different Jesus is preached by many deceivers (2 Corinthians 11:3-4) who deny His finished work of redemption.
The Mormons preach Jesus is the brother of Lucifer and was a man who became God. The Jehovah Witnesses preach Jesus was not God but claim he was Michael the arch angel. Roman Catholicism preaches a Jesus that was unable to purge all sin or pay the complete penalty for sin.
The Biblical Jesus assures Christians they have been saved from condemnation. "Now that we have been justified by His blood, it is all the more certain that we shall be saved by Him from God's wrath" (Roman 5:9). The one time, perfect and all sufficient sacrifice of Jesus completely satisfied the wrath of God (1 John 2:2). Roman Catholicism denies this fundamental teaching and deceives its people into believing that the sacrifice of the Mass satisfied God's wrath not only for the sins of the living but also for the sins of the dead (Canon 3, Council of Trent). Catholics are cursed with anathema by their church if they claim they are saved from God's wrath, (Canon 30, Council of Trent). Catholics know Jesus only as a "gate opener" to heaven. For Catholics to go through the gates of heaven they must save themselves through the Mass and sacraments.
The Jesus of the Bible expiates sin. "Through His blood, God made Him the means of the expiation for all who believe" (Roman 3:25). Yet the Catholic Church teaches Catholics must expiate their own sins. "This may be done through the sorrows, miseries and trials of this life and, above all, through death. Otherwise the expiation must be made in the next life through fire and torments of purifying punishments" (Vatican Council II).
The Jesus of the Bible is the only mediator between God and man (I Timothy 2:5), yet the Roman Catholic Church offers Mary as the mediator. Pope Pius IX proclaimed that "God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: that we obtain everything through Mary."
The Jesus of the Bible claimed He was the only way to the heavenly Father (John 14:6). Vatican II denies this by stating, "the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst who are the Moslems."
So why does the Roman Catholic Church hide the real Jesus from its followers? Because the real Jesus sets people free! In contrast, the Roman Catholic Church maintains control of its people through legalistic rituals, sacraments and threats of anathema's. The biblical Jesus saves believers from the bondage of sin, deception and religion.
Any Catholics care to answer this. @Illuminator, @BreadOfLife?
Honestly I'm not sure whoever wrote that is making valid points or even true points in regard to Catholic beliefs.
The accusation is that Jesus is not being preached correctly. And says that anyone preaching or accepting a different Jesus goes to hell. Kinda like he's making a threatening statement. As if Catholic purgatory ideas indicate that Jesus can't forgive them of their sins. So why can't it be that Jesus simply didn't forgive them of all of their sins? That would be a perfectly fair argument that Catholics could make. Not that Jesus was incapable of forgiving them of their sins, just he decided to send them to purgatory instead.
But I was explained by Catholics elsewhere that their purgatory isn't hell. It is a place of perfecting a person.
I think the person that wrote that is selling something honestly. Could be making money off of Christians which is quite often the case these days. Especially with new church preachers and organizations. Most are probably anti-older established religions. Which is why you see so many salesmen on the internet trying to cash in on God. Despicable really.
Incorrect-I have provided the links which you refuse to read-but then, this wasn't for you but for the edification of others.
You seemed to be clued up on the sacraments-Purgatory is unbiblical-yes?
An aside-Proclaiming the truth is not a "accusation"- now is it?
I'm not really versed on purgatory and haven't really been exposed to it's idea too much. But I can say this, Jesus went to preach in spirit prison to the sinners that died in the flood. The bible tells us that much. So why preach to them if it wasn't to save them from hell? Was he just preaching in vain? I doubt it.
And if Jesus preached to them and saved some from hell, then is purgatory not a teaching that follows the bible and Jesus' true nature?
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. Various are the senses given of this passage: some say, that Christ, upon his death, went in his human soul to hell; either, as some, to preach to the devils and damned spirits, that they might be saved, if they would; and, as others, to let them know that he was come, and to fill them with dread and terror; but though hell may be meant by the prison, yet the text does not say that he went unto it, or preached in it; only that the spirits were in it, to whom he sometimes went, and preached; nor is his human soul, but his divine nature meant, by the Spirit, by which he went and preached to them: and as for the ends proposed, the former is impracticable and impossible; for after death follows judgment, which is an eternal one; nor is there any salvation, or hope of salvation afterwards; and the latter is absurd, vain, and needless.
Others, as the Papists, imagine the sense to be, that Christ, at his death, went in his human soul, into a place they call "Limbus Patrum", which they suppose is meant by the prison here, and delivered the souls of the Old Testament saints and patriarchs from thence, and carried them with him to heaven; but this sense is also false, because, as before observed, not the human soul of Christ, but his divine nature, is designed by the Spirit; nor is there any such place as here feigned, in which the souls of Old Testament saints were, before the death of Christ; for they were in peace and rest, in the kingdom of heaven, in Abraham's bosom, inheriting the promises, and not in a prison; besides, the text says not one word of the delivering of these spirits out of prison, only of Christ's preaching to them: add to all this, and which Beza, with others, observes, the apostle speaks of such as had been disobedient, and unbelievers; a character which will not agree with righteous men, and prophets, and patriarchs, under the former dispensation: others think the words are to be understood of Christ's going to preach, by his apostles, to the Gentiles, as in Eph_2:17 who were in a most miserable condition, strangers to the covenants of promise, and destitute of the hope of salvation, and sat in darkness, and the shadow of death, and, as it were, at the gates of hell; were in the bonds of iniquity, and dead in sin, and had been for long time past foolish and disobedient, serving divers lusts and pleasures, to which they were in bondage.
This is, indeed, a more tolerable sense than the former; but it will be difficult to show, that men, in the present state of life, are called "spirits", which seems to be a word that relates to the souls of men, in a separate state from their bodies; and especially that carnal and unconverted men are ever so called; and besides, the apostle is speaking of such who were disobedient in the times of Noah; and therefore not of the Gentiles, in the times of the apostles: add to which, that the transition from the times of the apostles, according to this sense, to the days of Noah, is very unaccountable; this sense does not agree with the connection of the words: others are of opinion, that this is meant of the souls of the Old Testament saints, who were εν φυλακη, "in a watch", as they think the phrase may be rendered, instead of "in prison": and said to be in such a situation, because they were intent upon the hope of promised salvation, and were looking out for the Messiah, and anxiously desiring his coming, and which he, by some gracious manifestation, made known unto them: but though the word may sometimes signify a watch, yet more commonly a prison, and which sense best suits here; nor is that anxiety and uneasiness, which represents them as in a prison, so applicable to souls in a state of happiness; nor such a gracious manifestation so properly called preaching; and besides, not believers, but unbelievers, disobedient ones, are here spoken of; and though it is only said they were sometimes so, yet to what purpose should this former character be once mentioned of souls now in glory?
but it would be tedious to reckon up the several different senses of this place; some referring it to such in Noah's time, to whom the Gospel was preached, and who repented; and though they suffered in their bodies, in the general deluge, yet their souls were saved; whereas the apostle calls them all, "the world of the ungodly", 2Pe_2:5 and others, to the eight souls that were shut up in the ark, as in a prison, and were saved; though these are manifestly distinguished in the text from the disobedient spirits.
The plain and easy sense of the words is, that Christ, by his Spirit, by which he was quickened, went in the ministry of Noah, the preacher of righteousness, and preached both by words and deeds, by the personal ministry of Noah, and by the building of the ark, to that generation who was then in being; and who being disobedient, and continuing so, a flood was brought upon them which destroyed them all; and whose spirits, or separate souls, were then in the prison of hell, so the Syriac version renders it, בשיול, "in hell", see Rev_20:7 when the Apostle Peter wrote this epistle; so that Christ neither went into this prison, nor preached in it, nor to spirits that were then in it when he preached, but to persons alive in the days of Noah, and who being disobedient, when they died, their separate souls were put into prison, and there they were when the apostle wrote: from whence we learn, that Christ was, that he existed in his divine nature before he was incarnate, he was before Abraham, he was in the days of Noah; and that Christ also, under the Old Testament, acted the part of a Mediator, in his divine nature, and by his Spirit discharged that branch of it, his prophetic office, before he appeared in human nature; and that the Gospel was preached in those early times, as unto Abraham, so before him.
Guess you have it wrong.
Well you've added a lot of assumptions here. I only follow the scriptural text and actually what it says. And then I get a sense of the message. I think I got it right. So we'll disagree here.
No assumptions or opinions from my side-Scriptures on my side.
You "think" you got it right.
Yes, let's disagree here.
Goodnight.
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
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This entire rant is based on half-truths, misconceptions and outright HOGWASH. For example – the hatred for the “Roman” Catholic Church.
NOT sure what he’s referring to since there is NO such thing.
I belong to the Catholic Church, which is comprised of around 20 or so LITURGICAL RITES – the largest being the Roman (Latin) Rite.
There is also the Byzantine rite, the Maronite, Coptic, Melkite, etc. They are ALL Catholics in FULL communion with each other. BUT, you could never call ANY Catholics in the other Liturgical Rites “Roman” Catholics.
I could spend hours destroying all of the other points he made – and have done so on this forum – ad nauseam. For now, however – I’ll wait for this poster to admit his error with regard to “Roman” Catholic Church moniker . . .
Actually-if you wish--here is the contact info
[email protected]
(817) 379-5300
Mike Gendor-an ex-Catholic for 35 years.
Sources-verifiable.
Contact Mike himself.
Now is your opportunity to inform Mike himself that what he is propagating is Hogwash.
But do be careful-he is not your average layman.
I have taken the liberty to submit what you have posted to him and his team.
Thanks
Johann.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
BrotherJ, I can only tell about half of the time whether it is you or some commentary speaking. How do we know that we are not following men with itching ears of our own?
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
By the way, quoting yourself only notifies others that you have posted. It doesn't indicate that you have addressed them.
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