Does a Christian sin

[Peterlag]

Do you “ walk in the Spirit” 24/7 , and NEVER “ STUMBLE”—- something that even James admitted that Believers Do on occasion ?

Have you managed to conquer sins that “ so easily beset us?”

Please just try to answer those questions honestly.....don’t quote Scripture —- I will be familiar with any verses that you throw out there...thanking you in advance....

I was out for a walk and I thought about your statement about "NEVER STUMBLE" and thought how would I do that? Kick Christ out of me?

When you are a Christian you want above all to honor God and live a life that is pleasing to God, both for gratitude to God; and out of the understanding that God's word is beneficial to yourself in the here and now.

God will often test you, and it won't always be obvious in the moment but it will be in hindsight. You want to pass these tests, because God's blessings come to those who please Him. If you fail, then you also give praise to God for showing you the errors in your heart so you can repent and correct yourself.

The ancient pagans had a belief that their god wandered the world in the form of a beggar, and gave blessings to those who showed him charity. I believe that every beggar is God in disguise.

Do you have a verse that says God test the Christian?

 

[Peterlag]

op: Does a christian SIN?

Absolutely, EVERY single time we FAIL to obey The LORD Jesus Christ,
in order to "Fulfill ALL the Law In ONE WORD: LOVE thy neighbor as
thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)

Amen.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

Grace, Peace, And JOY!...

If you fail to obey the Lord then you are not walking in the spirit but rather you are walking in your flesh and calling it Christian.

 

[Lambano]

If you fail to obey the Lord then you are not walking in the spirit but rather you are walking in your flesh and calling it Christian.

What is "Walking in the Spirit", and how do you do it?

Just saying "walk in the Spirit" without saying how isn't helpful.

 

[Johann]

The verses on this are clear...

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

Are you promoting sinless perfection and/or entire sanctification already attained in this life, while in the flesh?

“It does not follow,” says Wesley, “that all who do not know their sins forgiven are children of the devil.” Methodism teaches also that it is the privilege of believers in this life to reach that maturity of grace, and that conformity to the divine nature, which cleanses the heart from sin. and fills it with love to God and man-the being filled as Paul phrases it, with all the fulness of God. This they call Christian perfection, a state which they declare to be attainable through faith in Christ. Wesley says on this subject, and none of his authorized followers have gone beyond him, “Christian perfection implies the being so crucified with Christ as to be able to testify, ‘I live not, but Christ liveth in me.’ It does not imply an exemption from ignorance or mistake, infirmities or temptations. I believe,” he adds, “there is no such perfection in this life as excludes these involuntary transgressions, which I apprehend to be naturally consequent on the ignorance and mistakes inseparable from mortality. Therefore ‘sinless perfection’ is’ a phrase I never use, lest I should seem to contradict myself. I believe a person filled with the love of God is still liable to these involuntary transgressions. Such transgressions you may call sins, if you please: I do not, for the reasons above mentioned.” This doctrine Wesley calls “the grand depositum which God has given to the people called Methodists;” and he gives it as his opinion that God raised them up chiefly to preach, and exemplify, and propagate it. SEE WESLEYANISM.

Be perfect - See this word explained in the notes on 2Co_13:9, and Rom_9:22. It was a wish that every disorder might be removed; that all that was out of joint might be restored; that everything might be in its proper place; and that they might be just what they ought to be: A command to be perfect, however, does not prove that it has ever in fact been obeyed: and an earnest wish on the part of an apostle that others might be perfect, does not demonstrate that they were; and this passage should not be adduced to prove that any have been free from sin. It may be adduced, however, to prove that an obligation rests on Christians to be perfect, and that there is no natural obstacle to their becoming such, since God never can command us to do an impossibility. Whether anyone, but the Lord Jesus, has been perfect, however, is a question on which different denominations of Christians have been greatly divided.

It is incumbent on the advocates of the doctrine of sinless perfection to produce some one instance of a perfectly sinless character. This has not yet been done.

 

[Johann]

What is "Walking in the Spirit", and how do you do it?

Just saying "walk in the Spirit" without saying how isn't helpful.

If you fail to obey the Lord then you are not walking in the spirit but rather you are walking in your flesh and calling it Christian.

You are a piece of work, are you pre-programmed, just quoting scriptures randomly without explaining what it means?
J.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have answered your question many times. Perhaps you cannot understand the things of the spirit. The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

You are dishonest. Yes or no. Do you sin anymore? Yes or no! no other verbage. Yes or no! Can you understand that????????????????????

My new man does not sin and I'm in the new man all the time. Can you understand that?

So you are sinlessly perfect. Was that hard. And you still did not simply answer yes or no. So in case you do not understand. The question was: Do you sin anymore? And your answer simply should have been NO.

CONGRATULATIONS YOU JUST COMMITTED YOUR FIRST SIN BY LYING.

Though I preach with a vengeance not to sin, in your case, I await the time you have a big fall, so God may open your eyes, knock you off your misconception high horse and realize, you haven't reached living perfect yet and can rejoice in the mercy and patience of God like the rest of the body of Christ does.

After today, I am taking my wife on a 10 day cruise. She works at a hospitral and isnce 2019 has been nearly nonstop with Covid and all. Will see you all when we get back

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Are you promoting sinless perfection and/or entire sanctification already attained in this life, while in the flesh?

“It does not follow,” says Wesley, “that all who do not know their sins forgiven are children of the devil.” Methodism teaches also that it is the privilege of believers in this life to reach that maturity of grace, and that conformity to the divine nature, which cleanses the heart from sin. and fills it with love to God and man-the being filled as Paul phrases it, with all the fulness of God. This they call Christian perfection, a state which they declare to be attainable through faith in Christ. Wesley says on this subject, and none of his authorized followers have gone beyond him, “Christian perfection implies the being so crucified with Christ as to be able to testify, ‘I live not, but Christ liveth in me.’ It does not imply an exemption from ignorance or mistake, infirmities or temptations. I believe,” he adds, “there is no such perfection in this life as excludes these involuntary transgressions, which I apprehend to be naturally consequent on the ignorance and mistakes inseparable from mortality. Therefore ‘sinless perfection’ is’ a phrase I never use, lest I should seem to contradict myself. I believe a person filled with the love of God is still liable to these involuntary transgressions. Such transgressions you may call sins, if you please: I do not, for the reasons above mentioned.” This doctrine Wesley calls “the grand depositum which God has given to the people called Methodists;” and he gives it as his opinion that God raised them up chiefly to preach, and exemplify, and propagate it. SEE WESLEYANISM.

Be perfect - See this word explained in the notes on 2Co_13:9, and Rom_9:22. It was a wish that every disorder might be removed; that all that was out of joint might be restored; that everything might be in its proper place; and that they might be just what they ought to be: A command to be perfect, however, does not prove that it has ever in fact been obeyed: and an earnest wish on the part of an apostle that others might be perfect, does not demonstrate that they were; and this passage should not be adduced to prove that any have been free from sin. It may be adduced, however, to prove that an obligation rests on Christians to be perfect, and that there is no natural obstacle to their becoming such, since God never can command us to do an impossibility. Whether anyone, but the Lord Jesus, has been perfect, however, is a question on which different denominations of Christians have been greatly divided.

It is incumbent on the advocates of the doctrine of sinless perfection to produce some one instance of a perfectly sinless character. This has not yet been done.

In all of Paul's letters, He wrote to those who were in Christ, saved, sealed and blood bought. He also encouraged them to deny the old man which can do nothing but sin, and live in the new man who cannot sin.

It is theoretically possible to live in Christ 24/7, but despite thje crowing of about 5-6 people in this forum, no human has achieved it yet.

 

[Peterlag]

You are dishonest. Yes or no. Do you sin anymore? Yes or no! no other verbage. Yes or no! Can you understand that????????????????????

So you are sinlessly perfect. Was that hard. And you still did not simply answer yes or no. So in case you do not understand. The question was: Do you sin anymore? And your answer simply should have been NO.

CONGRATULATIONS YOU JUST COMMITTED YOUR FIRST SIN BY LYING.

Though I preach with a vengeance not to sin, in your case, I await the time you have a big fall, so God may open your eyes, knock you off your misconception high horse and realize, you haven't reached living perfect yet and can rejoice in the mercy and patience of God like the rest of the body of Christ does.

After today, I am taking my wife on a 10 day cruise. She works at a hospitral and isnce 2019 has been nearly nonstop with Covid and all. Will see you all when we get back

Again you use words that are not in the Bible. The Scriptures do not say sinlessly perfect. The words perfect are never used around the word sin. So you are the one who is being dishonest with God's Word.

 

[Peterlag]

You are a piece of work, are you pre-programmed, just quoting scriptures randomly without explaining what it means?
J.

He asked me to answer him without using Scripture. And you are saying concerning what I did not write to you that I should be using Scripture. I have a lot of verses on everything I say. Do you think I just make this stuff up like the Churches do? The Bible clearing says I do not sin after I'm born again and I am born again.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

 

[Peterlag]

Are you promoting sinless perfection and/or entire sanctification already attained in this life, while in the flesh?

“It does not follow,” says Wesley, “that all who do not know their sins forgiven are children of the devil.” Methodism teaches also that it is the privilege of believers in this life to reach that maturity of grace, and that conformity to the divine nature, which cleanses the heart from sin. and fills it with love to God and man-the being filled as Paul phrases it, with all the fulness of God. This they call Christian perfection, a state which they declare to be attainable through faith in Christ. Wesley says on this subject, and none of his authorized followers have gone beyond him, “Christian perfection implies the being so crucified with Christ as to be able to testify, ‘I live not, but Christ liveth in me.’ It does not imply an exemption from ignorance or mistake, infirmities or temptations. I believe,” he adds, “there is no such perfection in this life as excludes these involuntary transgressions, which I apprehend to be naturally consequent on the ignorance and mistakes inseparable from mortality. Therefore ‘sinless perfection’ is’ a phrase I never use, lest I should seem to contradict myself. I believe a person filled with the love of God is still liable to these involuntary transgressions. Such transgressions you may call sins, if you please: I do not, for the reasons above mentioned.” This doctrine Wesley calls “the grand depositum which God has given to the people called Methodists;” and he gives it as his opinion that God raised them up chiefly to preach, and exemplify, and propagate it. SEE WESLEYANISM.

Be perfect - See this word explained in the notes on 2Co_13:9, and Rom_9:22. It was a wish that every disorder might be removed; that all that was out of joint might be restored; that everything might be in its proper place; and that they might be just what they ought to be: A command to be perfect, however, does not prove that it has ever in fact been obeyed: and an earnest wish on the part of an apostle that others might be perfect, does not demonstrate that they were; and this passage should not be adduced to prove that any have been free from sin. It may be adduced, however, to prove that an obligation rests on Christians to be perfect, and that there is no natural obstacle to their becoming such, since God never can command us to do an impossibility. Whether anyone, but the Lord Jesus, has been perfect, however, is a question on which different denominations of Christians have been greatly divided.

It is incumbent on the advocates of the doctrine of sinless perfection to produce some one instance of a perfectly sinless character. This has not yet been done.

The words sinless perfection are not in any of the Bible verses I just gave you. In fact, the word "perfection" is not in any Bible verse around the word sin. If you are going to talk to me I would like for you to use the same words that are in the Bible and not make up your own words that are not biblical.

 

[Peterlag]

What is "Walking in the Spirit", and how do you do it?

Just saying "walk in the Spirit" without saying how isn't helpful.

I wrote everything I could think about on how to do the very thing that you ask in what I call Appendix A and Appendix C that can be found at the end of my online paper. I find it so difficult to explain because the Churches taught us how to walk by our flesh, how to try to clean it up to make ourselves righteous, and then call it Christian. And so to get someone out of that mindset, which is what they have known all their life is difficult for me, but I did try. Here's the link www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html

 

[Gospel Believer]

In all of Paul's letters, He wrote to those who were in Christ, saved, sealed and blood bought. He also encouraged them to deny the old man which can do nothing but sin, and live in the new man who cannot sin.

It is theoretically possible to live in Christ 24/7, but despite thje crowing of about 5-6 people in this forum, no human has achieved it yet.

Believers “ Live” in the Spirit.....That does not mean that that constantly “ Walk” in it.....Two different things completely.....

If the Spirit Of God Lives In you, you live in the Spirit....That Spirit is at war with the Old Sinful Adamic Nature That is In you and will Continue to be in you until the day that we see Jesus and “ Become as He is”..... We will know Perfection “ over there” ....Once Saved, we continue to Always “Live” in the Spirit because the Holy Spirit Permanently Indwells us, But when we give into temptations and to the Sins “ That So Easily Beset us” we do not “ Walk” in the Spirit at those times......and we pay the price here in our earthly existence....it’s what “ Chastisement” is for.....

 

[Peterlag]

Believers “ Live” in the Spirit.....That does not mean that that constantly “ Walk” in it.....Two different things completely.....

If the Spirit Of God Lives In you, you live in the Spirit....That Spirit is at war with the Old Sinful Adamic Nature That is In you and will Continue to be in you until the day that we see Jesus and “ Become as He is”..... We will know Perfection “ over there” ....Once Saved, we continue to Always “Live” in the Spirit because the Holy Spirit Permanently Indwells us, But when we give into temptations and to the Sins “ That So Easily Beset us” we do not “ Walk” in the Spirit at those times......and we pay the price here in our earthly existence....it’s what “ Chastisement” is for.....

There's no war.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It's not the body, but the spirit that has become a new creature. In other words, it's in the spirit that we have become a brand-new species because our spirit is totally new and therefore there is not an old sin nature left in us. We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian. I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Again you use words that are not in the Bible. The Scriptures do not say sinlessly perfect. The words perfect are never used around the word sin. So you are the one who is being dishonest with God's Word.

You are just nit picking. To say you cannot sin is the same as you are sinlessly perfect. YOu use words not in the bible to respond to me. If you can't see that sinlessly perfect and cannot sin anymore are the same, well that is a problem I cannot help you with. Otherwise you are simply being argumentative about "only using words from the Bible.

Do you believe God is a trinity? that word is not found in the bible- so follow your own made up rules and never use the word trinity again, or get off your high pride horse and pseudo spiritual language and talk like a normal believer.

 

[Peterlag]

You are just nit picking. To say you cannot sin is the same as you are sinlessly perfect. YOu use words not in the bible to respond to me. If you can't see that sinlessly perfect and cannot sin anymore are the same, well that is a problem I cannot help you with. Otherwise you are simply being argumentative about "only using words from the Bible.

Do you believe God is a trinity? that word is not found in the bible- so follow your own made up rules and never use the word trinity again, or get off your high pride horse and pseudo spiritual language and talk like a normal believer.

Find me one verse anywhere in the New Testament that talks about "sinlessly perfect." I will then talk about it. But if you cannot find just one verse that talks about sin being perfect. Then I say you are making it up as you go along.

 

[Peterlag]

You are just nit picking. To say you cannot sin is the same as you are sinlessly perfect. YOu use words not in the bible to respond to me. If you can't see that sinlessly perfect and cannot sin anymore are the same, well that is a problem I cannot help you with. Otherwise you are simply being argumentative about "only using words from the Bible.

Do you believe God is a trinity? that word is not found in the bible- so follow your own made up rules and never use the word trinity again, or get off your high pride horse and pseudo spiritual language and talk like a normal believer.

Here's a hint. It was the Catholics who taught you to not sin makes you perfect. It was not the Apostle Paul.

 

[Johann]

Here's a hint. It was the Catholics who taught you to not sin makes you perfect. It was not the Apostle Paul.

Yeah, and what exactly did the Paul teach?

 

[Johann]

But if you cannot find just one verse that talks about sin being perfect.

Are you capable of committing acts of sin?

 

[Johann]

There's no war.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It's not the body, but the spirit that has become a new creature. In other words, it's in the spirit that we have become a brand-new species because our spirit is totally new and therefore there is not an old sin nature left in us. We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian. I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.

1Pe_2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

War against the soul (strateuontai kata tēs psuchēs). Present middle indicative of strateuō, to carry on a campaign (Jas_4:1). See this struggle between the flesh and the spirit vividly pictured by Paul in Gal_5:16-24.

Do you know what a Present, Middle indicative is?

Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

You say "no war in the life of the believer?"

Give me your interpretation on the verses presented and do look up Hyper Grace and the Word of Faith "movement"

Studies in Perfectionism, Vol. 1 & 2, Benjamin B. Warfield

J

 

[Johann]

His quickening power, for we are then consecrated to God by
the Spirit’s indwelling us and making our body His temple. As He
came upon the Head ("not . . . by measure," John 3:34), so in due
time He is given to each of the members of the Head: "Ye have an
unction [the Spirit] from the Holy One." "The anointing [the Spirit]
which ye have received from him [Christ] abideth in you" (1 John
2:20, 27). We derive our name from that very blessing, for
"Christian" means "an anointed one," the term being taken from the
type in Psalm 133:2. It is the indwelling of the Spirit which
constitutes a believer a holy person. Our relationship to Christ is
changed when the Spirit quickens us, for instead of being "without"
Him in the world, we are now "joined" to Him. Our actual state is
radically changed, for a principle of holiness is planted in the soul
which powerfully affects all its faculties. God now occupies the
throne of the heart, the affections are purged from their love of sin,
the Word is delighted in so that the will chooses its precepts as its
regulator. Nevertheless, the "flesh," or evil principle, remains
unchanged.