Does a Christian sin

[Peterlag]

Now this is very interesting because we have two different Bibles. So one group belongs to one group and another group belongs to a different group.

Group Number 1

New International Version
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

New Living Translation
Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God.

English Standard Version
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Berean Study Bible
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

New American Standard Bible
No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.

Contemporary English Version
God's children cannot keep on being sinful. His life-giving power lives in them and makes them his children, so they cannot keep on sinning.

Good News Translation
Those who are children of God do not continue to sin, for God's very nature is in them; and because God is their Father, they cannot continue to sin.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Those who have been born from God don't live sinful lives. What God has said lives in them, and they can't live sinful lives. They have been born from God.

International Standard Version
No one who has been born from God practices sin, because God's seed abides in him. Indeed, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born from God.

Mace New Testament
whosoever is born of God, does not commit sin; for the divine principle remaineth in him: he will not sin, because he is born of God.

Weymouth New Testament
No one who is a child of God is habitually guilty of sin. A God-given germ of life remains in him, and he cannot habitually sin--because he is a child of God.

Group Number 2

NASB 1995
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

NET Bible
Everyone who has been fathered by God does not practice sin, because God's seed resides in him, and thus he is not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God.

King James Bible
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

New Heart English Bible
Whoever is born of God does not commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

World English Bible
Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God.

American Standard Version
Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.

A Faithful Version
Everyone who has been begotten by God does not practice sin because His seed of begettal is dwelling within him, and he is not able to practice sin because he has been begotten by God.

Darby Bible Translation
Whoever has been begotten of God does not practise sin, because his seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God.

English Revised Version
Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.

Webster's Bible Translation
Whoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Geneva Bible of 1587
Whosoeuer is borne of God, sinneth not: for his seede remaineth in him, neither can hee sinne, because he is borne of God.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
Whosoeuer is borne of God, sinneth not: for his seede remayneth in him, and he can not sinne, because he is borne of God.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
Who so euer is borne of God, synneth not: for his sede remayneth in him, & he ca not synne, because he is borne of God.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
Whosoever is borne of god sinneth not: for his seed remayneth in him and he cannot sinne because he is borne of god.

Literal Standard Version
everyone who has been begotten of God, he does not sin, because His seed remains in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been begotten of God.

Berean Literal Bible
Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God.

Young's Literal Translation
every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.

Smith's Literal Translation
Every one born of God does not sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, for he has been born of God.

Literal Emphasis Translation
Anyone having been born from out of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him and he is not able to continue sinning because he has been born from out of God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Whosoever is born of God, commmitteth not sin: for his seed abideth in him, and he can not sin, because he is born of God.

Catholic Public Domain Version
All those who have been born of God do not commit sin. For the offspring of God abides in them, and he is not able to sin, because he was born of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No one who is begotten from God commits sin, because his seed is in him and he is not able to sin because he has been begotten from God.

Lamsa Bible
Whoever is born of God does not commit sin because God’s seed is in him; and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

Anderson New Testament
Whoever has been begotten of God does not work sin; because his seed remains in him: and he can not sin, because he has been begotten of God.

Godbey New Testament
Every one having been born of God does not sin; because his seed remains in him: and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

Haweis New Testament
Every one who is born of God, doth not practise sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Worrell New Testament
Whosoever has been begotten of God sins not; because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin because he has been begotten of God.

Worsley New Testament
Whosoever is born of God doth not practise sin, because his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Note: E. W. Bullinger says "cannot = is not
no, not; expressing full and direct negation, independently
and absolutely; not depending on any condition expressed or implied.

This guy wrote his own religion in his Bible...

Amplified Bible
No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Now this is very interesting because we have two different Bibles. So one group belongs to one group and another group belongs to a different group.



Note: E. W. Bullinger says "cannot = is not
no, not; expressing full and direct negation, independently
and absolutely; not depending on any condition expressed or implied.

This guy wrote his own religion in his Bible...

Amplified Bible
No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.

Christians will sin, every time we for a nanosecond take our eyes off Jesus. That is the glory of God in 1 JOhn 1:9 and comfort that Jesus told Peter to forgive someone as many times as they need it!

We may fail in an area over and over and over again, but God knows the heart and God promises to sanctify us, as He has already perfected us forever.

BTW the Amplified is a very cool bible.

 

[mailmandan]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Wrangler]

we have two different Bibles.

Sad and goes to show the importance of translation cross reference.

3 of my preferred translations are in the first group. However, my understanding of text is the practicing, 2nd group. Perhaps the study notes led me to a proper grasp of God’s word - in addition to the spirit of God.

 

[Peterlag]

Christians will sin, every time we for a nanosecond take our eyes off Jesus. That is the glory of God in 1 JOhn 1:9 and comfort that Jesus told Peter to forgive someone as many times as they need it!

We may fail in an area over and over and over again, but God knows the heart and God promises to sanctify us, as He has already perfected us forever.

BTW the Amplified is a very cool bible.

I believe you are in group number 1.

 

[Peterlag]

Sad and goes to show the importance of translation cross reference.

3 of my preferred translations are in the first group. However, my understanding of text is the practicing, 2nd group. Perhaps the study notes led me to a proper grasp of God’s word - in addition to the spirit of God.

Send me an email again and I will send you what I wrote on it. I looked up every word for sin in the new tesatment and then wrote about them all in one night. It's a few pages long and I will give it to you if you email me.

 

[ScottA]

Now this is very interesting because we have two different Bibles. So one group belongs to one group and another group belongs to a different group.

Group Number 1

New International Version
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

New Living Translation
Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God.

English Standard Version
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Berean Study Bible
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

New American Standard Bible
No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.

Contemporary English Version
God's children cannot keep on being sinful. His life-giving power lives in them and makes them his children, so they cannot keep on sinning.

Good News Translation
Those who are children of God do not continue to sin, for God's very nature is in them; and because God is their Father, they cannot continue to sin.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Those who have been born from God don't live sinful lives. What God has said lives in them, and they can't live sinful lives. They have been born from God.

International Standard Version
No one who has been born from God practices sin, because God's seed abides in him. Indeed, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born from God.

Mace New Testament
whosoever is born of God, does not commit sin; for the divine principle remaineth in him: he will not sin, because he is born of God.

Weymouth New Testament
No one who is a child of God is habitually guilty of sin. A God-given germ of life remains in him, and he cannot habitually sin--because he is a child of God.

Group Number 2

NASB 1995
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

NET Bible
Everyone who has been fathered by God does not practice sin, because God's seed resides in him, and thus he is not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God.

King James Bible
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

New Heart English Bible
Whoever is born of God does not commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

World English Bible
Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God.

American Standard Version
Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.

A Faithful Version
Everyone who has been begotten by God does not practice sin because His seed of begettal is dwelling within him, and he is not able to practice sin because he has been begotten by God.

Darby Bible Translation
Whoever has been begotten of God does not practise sin, because his seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God.

English Revised Version
Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.

Webster's Bible Translation
Whoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Geneva Bible of 1587
Whosoeuer is borne of God, sinneth not: for his seede remaineth in him, neither can hee sinne, because he is borne of God.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
Whosoeuer is borne of God, sinneth not: for his seede remayneth in him, and he can not sinne, because he is borne of God.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
Who so euer is borne of God, synneth not: for his sede remayneth in him, & he ca not synne, because he is borne of God.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
Whosoever is borne of god sinneth not: for his seed remayneth in him and he cannot sinne because he is borne of god.

Literal Standard Version
everyone who has been begotten of God, he does not sin, because His seed remains in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been begotten of God.

Berean Literal Bible
Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God.

Young's Literal Translation
every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.

Smith's Literal Translation
Every one born of God does not sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, for he has been born of God.

Literal Emphasis Translation
Anyone having been born from out of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him and he is not able to continue sinning because he has been born from out of God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Whosoever is born of God, commmitteth not sin: for his seed abideth in him, and he can not sin, because he is born of God.

Catholic Public Domain Version
All those who have been born of God do not commit sin. For the offspring of God abides in them, and he is not able to sin, because he was born of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No one who is begotten from God commits sin, because his seed is in him and he is not able to sin because he has been begotten from God.

Lamsa Bible
Whoever is born of God does not commit sin because God’s seed is in him; and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

Anderson New Testament
Whoever has been begotten of God does not work sin; because his seed remains in him: and he can not sin, because he has been begotten of God.

Godbey New Testament
Every one having been born of God does not sin; because his seed remains in him: and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

Haweis New Testament
Every one who is born of God, doth not practise sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Worrell New Testament
Whosoever has been begotten of God sins not; because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin because he has been begotten of God.

Worsley New Testament
Whosoever is born of God doth not practise sin, because his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Note: E. W. Bullinger says "cannot = is not
no, not; expressing full and direct negation, independently
and absolutely; not depending on any condition expressed or implied.

This guy wrote his own religion in his Bible...

Amplified Bible
No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.

Regardless, the dividing line is being "born of God."

Any other would-be exception is just religious nonsense.

 

[Peterlag]

Regardless, the dividing line is being "born of God."

Any other would-be exception is just religious nonsense.

Most Christians still believe the spirit of Christ makes their flesh spiritual. And this is why they believe their sins are forgiven when they are born again up to that point, but must run to God to confess and repent their new sins every time they sin after becoming a Christian. The belief is that you will either be lost, or on your way to hell, or at the very least God will not fellowship with you, and He certainly will not answer your prayers if you are found with an unconfessed sin. Such a concept would mean everybody would be on their way to hell because there is not a person on this earth who does not have either a known or an unknown unconfessed sin. Now if this new sin just means the loss of a relationship with God, which would include unanswered prayers. Then God would not have a single person on this earth qualified to receive an answer to prayer or to be able to fellowship with Him.

 

[Peterlag]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

I see this 1 John chapter 1 and 2 as we are either walking in our old dead nature if we are into sin. Or we are walking in the spirit if we are not into sin.

Chapter 1
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
6. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
7. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
8. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
9. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
10. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

Chapter 2
1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
1. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
2. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."
3. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
4. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

5 "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
5. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
6. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

A belief system called Gnosticism was taking root in Christianity at the time the book of John was being written that taught there was a supreme and unknowable Being, which they designated as the "Monad." The Monad produced various gods, who in turn produced other gods, and one of these gods called the "Demiurge" created the earth and then ruled over it as an angry, evil and jealous god. Gnostics believe this evil god was the god of the Old Testament who is called "Elohim" and so the Monad had to send another god known as the "Christ" to bring special knowledge to mankind and free them from the influence of the evil Elohim. And this is why the gnostics do not seek salvation from repenting of their sin (but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence) that they believe the evil creator God and his angels caused. They emphasize salvation of select humans from bodily existence through their awakening to the knowledge of their original divine identity. I believe the Apostle John had them on his mind when he wrote the Epistle of 1 John saying you must realize you have sin and repent. John was not talking to the already saved Christian as the Catholics would like you to believe.

 

[mailmandan]

I see this 1 John chapter 1 and 2 as we are either walking in our old dead nature if we are into sin. Or we are walking in the spirit if we are not into sin.

Chapter 1
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
6. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
7. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
8. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
9. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
10. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

Chapter 2
1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
1. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
2. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."
3. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
4. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

5 "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
5. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
6. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

A belief system called Gnosticism was taking root in Christianity at the time the book of John was being written that taught there was a supreme and unknowable Being, which they designated as the "Monad." The Monad produced various gods, who in turn produced other gods, and one of these gods called the "Demiurge" created the earth and then ruled over it as an angry, evil and jealous god. Gnostics believe this evil god was the god of the Old Testament who is called "Elohim" and so the Monad had to send another god known as the "Christ" to bring special knowledge to mankind and free them from the influence of the evil Elohim. And this is why the gnostics do not seek salvation from repenting of their sin (but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence) that they believe the evil creator God and his angels caused. They emphasize salvation of select humans from bodily existence through their awakening to the knowledge of their original divine identity. I believe the Apostle John had them on his mind when he wrote the Epistle of 1 John saying you must realize you have sin and repent. John was not talking to the already saved Christian as the Catholics would like you to believe.

Gnosticism is strange to me. In regards to 1 John 1:6-7, here is how I understand it. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. I see walking in darkness as 'descriptive' of children of the devil while walking in the light is 'descriptive' of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is connected with children of the devil.

In regards to 1 John 1:8-10, notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10). Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we must confess each sin that we commit as we commit them (keep a specific inventory of sins) as an "additional requirement" to remain cleansed and saved and if we forget a sin we are toast!

Believers speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness.

 

[Lambano]

People tend to overthink this one.

We're now children of God. Children of God don't sin, so don't sin. When Jesus comes back, it's promised we'll grow up to be just like Him, so kids, let's get a head start on it and let's practice being like Jesus right now.

(But if you do fail, and statistically you will, confess your sins, and trust your Advocate Jesus Christ's faithfulness and atoning sacrifice for your sins. )

Don't sin, and love one another. That's the whole theme of John's first epistle.

I see people trying to read the Bible like an engineering spec and missing the rhetorical thrust of what God wants us to know.

 

[amigo de christo]

One thing i do know is no lamb who does sin does so continually justifying his or her behavior .
Lambs hate even the sin of their own flesh .
You wont catch lambs yelling GOD MADE me this way and all is well when they do err .
Yet many do this and folks just say , OH they cliam to beleieve thus they are christain and all is well . THAT IS A LIE .
And any leader of any church who has well grown in the faith and doctrine is gonna sound like paul and the true apostels did
concerning sin and error . THINGS Like DONT LET IT ONCE be named . You never heard things from paul
that said OH WE ALL SINNERS , SO STOP JUDGING lets just hug and get along . THAT IS A CRAP DUNG PILE LIE and APPROACH
to sin and error in the church .
And you sure never heard paul letting gay folks teach the church . This gen is tanked .
My advice is we better learn the biblical appraoch to ALL THINGS or leaven is gonna swallow up the place .

 

[ScottA]

Most Christians still believe the spirit of Christ makes their flesh spiritual. And this is why they believe their sins are forgiven when they are born again up to that point, but must run to God to confess and repent their new sins every time they sin after becoming a Christian. The belief is that you will either be lost, or on your way to hell, or at the very least God will not fellowship with you, and He certainly will not answer your prayers if you are found with an unconfessed sin. Such a concept would mean everybody would be on their way to hell because there is not a person on this earth who does not have either a known or an unknown unconfessed sin. Now if this new sin just means the loss of a relationship with God, which would include unanswered prayers. Then God would not have a single person on this earth qualified to receive an answer to prayer or to be able to fellowship with Him.

Well said!

The fact is, the times before and after salvation are "created" just as the person was created, and those times are not a part of salvation (as "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.") Salvation rather is of God and not of the times of this world where sin exists. The time of salvation is when one goes from being "of" the world to not being of the world, and sin and time are left behind...as in "I was crucified with Christ" (past tense). Which is to say, all times (including times of sin) are either pre-salvation or retroactive...for which it is written, "today is the time of salvation."

Thus, those who are of the world (rather than in the world but not of it, meaning "saved"--or as Paul worded it "we who are alive and remain") simply do not yet share the eternal perspective of God who has set the time of salvation at "today"--not after.

 

[Lambano]

All the ancillary issues about "Does he mean 'continuously sinning'?" and "Do I have to confess every single one of my sins?" are about people who are either afraid of losing their salvation, or who want to make others afraid of losing their salvation. If you want to control people, first make them afraid.

 

[Peterlag]

Well said!

The fact is, the times before and after salvation are "created" just as the person was created, and those times are not a part of salvation (as "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.") Salvation rather is of God and not of the times of this world where sin exists. The time of salvation is when one goes from being "of" the world to not being of the world, and sin and time are left behind...as in "I was crucified with Christ" (past tense). Which is to say, all times (including times of sin) are either pre-salvation or retroactive...for which it is written, "today is the time of salvation."

Thus, those who are of the world (rather than in the world but not of it, meaning "saved"--or as Paul worded it "we who are alive and remain") simply do not yet share the eternal perspective of God who has set the time of salvation at "today"--not after.

God does not change, but the gift of God’s holy spirit that believers have today is different from the spirit that God gave in the Old Testament, and so the gift of God’s spirit has changed.

 

[Peterlag]

Gnosticism is strange to me. In regards to 1 John 1:6-7, here is how I understand it. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. I see walking in darkness as 'descriptive' of children of the devil while walking in the light is 'descriptive' of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is connected with children of the devil.

In regards to 1 John 1:8-10, notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10). Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we must confess each sin that we commit as we commit them (keep a specific inventory of sins) as an "additional requirement" to remain cleansed and saved and if we forget a sin we are toast!

Believers speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness.

I would put you in group 1. That's the group that I mentioned in the OP that believes 1 John was written to the Christian. I believe God gave us a new nature when we are born again and that this is what the apostle Paul taught. Then where did this idea come from that we are still sinners by nature, and that the spirit of Christ makes our flesh spiritual, but still alive to sin whereby we must with much effort, frustration, and failure be in a battle with our sin nature the rest of our lives? Who taught us that it's not the spirit that has become our new nature, but that after we received Christ within, we still have the old sin nature left as we live the rest of our lives trying to restrain it? If the apostle Paul taught that we do experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ, and that it’s dead and gone and therefore we are dead to sin? Then where did this idea come from that we are still alive to sin? Could it have come from these guys...

The concept of the original sin was first alluded to in the second century by Irenaeus, (Bishop of Lyon) who was working for the Catholics and not for the apostle Paul. Some two hundred years later another church father who went by the name of Augustine, (Bishop of Hippo) whose writings shaped and developed the doctrine of sin as he considered that humanity shared in Adam's sin. Augustine's formulation of the original sin after the year of 412 was popular among protestant reformer's such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, who equated the original sin with a hurtful desire meaning that it persisted even after baptism and therefore completely destroyed the freedom to do good. At first Augustine, said that free will was weakened, but not destroyed by the original sin. But after the year of 412 this concept changed to a loss of free will except to sin, and it's this Augustine's concept that influenced the development of the western church and western philosophy and indirectly all of western Christianity.

The Catholic church declared baptism by imparting the life of Christ's grace, and thereby erasing the original sin, and then that would allow one back toward God. The thinking that the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist and summon the human to spiritual battle, and therefore weakened and diminished by Adam's fall, and still free will was not destroyed in the human race. Irenaeus, put forth his doctrine of the original sin, which is rather mild compared with what would later be found in the writings of Augustine. One recurring theme in Irenaeus, is his view that Adam, in his transgression is essentially a child who merely partook of the tree ahead of his time. For Irenaeus, knowing good and evil was an integral aspect of human nature; the "sin" of Adam, was snatching at the fruit of the tree rather than waiting for it as a gift from God.

In the years of 354 to 430 Augustine, taught that Adam's sin is transmitted by concupiscence, or a "hurtful desire" resulting in humanity becoming condemned with an enfeebled, though not destroyed freedom of will. When Adam sinned, human nature was therefore transformed, and Adam and Eve via sexual reproduction recreated human nature. Their descendants now live in sin, in the form of concupiscence, a term Augustine, used in a metaphysical and not a psychological sense. Augustine, insisted that concupiscence was not a being but a bad quality, meaning a wound. He admitted that sexual concupiscence (libido) might have been present in the perfect human nature in paradise, and that only later it became disobedient to the human will as a result of the first couple's disobedience to God's will in the original sin. In Augustine's view (termed "realism") all of humanity was really present in Adam, when he sinned and therefore all have sinned.

Augustine, was the first to add the concept of inherited guilt from Adam, whereby an infant was eternally damned at birth. Augustine, held the traditional view that free will was weakened, but not destroyed by the original sin until he converted in 412 to the Stoic view that humanity had no free will except to sin, which was the result of his later thinking on infant baptism. Augustine, believed that unbaptized infants go to hell as a consequence of the original sin. The Latin church fathers who followed Augustine, adopted his position, which became a point of reference for Latin theologians in the middle ages. In the later medieval period, some theologians continued to hold Augustine's view and others held that unbaptized infants suffered no pain at all.

Augustine, states that God's grace and not human free will is responsible for everything that pertains to salvation and that includes even our faith. We are often told that people suffer because they deserve it. And we seem to be able to go into great explanations expressing a confidence in God's absolute sovereignty, defined here as control, that seems to provide many believers with a great deal of security. We teach in our churches that everything is under God's control, and thereby everything is proceeding as divinely planned, and that somehow it all fits together. This concept did not attain the status of a universal explanation until years after a man was born on the planet who was called Augustine.

It's indeed historically true that what has constituted the most frequent explanation in the church and in western culture for why people suffer is due to the fact that a man was born on the planet called Augustine. And so this concept of God being in control of both good and evil is why we often consider a secret "divine blueprint" behind everything that is both good and evil being somehow an extension of God's good (but very mysterious) will. Opposition to Augustine's ideas about the original sin, which he had developed arose rapidly, and after a long and bitter struggle several councils, especially the second council of Orange in the year of 529, confirmed the general principles of Augustine's teaching within western Christianity. However, the church did not entirely endorse Augustine, and even some of Augustine's followers identified the original sin differently even after Augustine's authority was accepted.

I see the "sin nature" as something that existed before Jesus Christ destroyed it when the spirit of Christ came within the believer. This spirit is indeed a life form that is in all Christians and it seems to me one cannot understand and therefore function or be in the spirit if our old nature (which is dead) thinks in it's unrenewed mind that it suppose to be fighting against the new nature. Paul wrote in Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:" That's what I'm talking about. I now understand being in Christ is being in the spirit and neither of them (in Christ or in the spirit) has anything to do with the darn flesh. It now seems perfectly clear to walk in the spirit is the same as putting on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I believe you are in group number 1.

Well as the Greek points strongly to group one and the rest of SCripture speaks of the never ending forgiveness of God- Yes count me there!

 

[Peterlag]

Well as the Greek points strongly to group one and the rest of SCripture speaks of the never ending forgiveness of God- Yes count me there!

I will count you there but the Greek does not strongly point to group number one.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I will count you there but the Greek does not strongly point to group number one.

Yes it does! It is the habitual practricing sinner that may never have been saved. Hebrews 6+10 do not even concern believers.

In Mastt. 7 Jesus told th eworkers of iniquity that He NEVER knew them not that He knew them once but not now.

Jesus told to forgive 70X7 in a day. Do you think god would forgive less?

The greek in almost all cases shows a continuous repeated setr of actions.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes it does! It is the habitual practricing sinner that may never have been saved. Hebrews 6+10 do not even concern believers.

In Mastt. 7 Jesus told th eworkers of iniquity that He NEVER knew them not that He knew them once but not now.

Jesus told to forgive 70X7 in a day. Do you think god would forgive less?

The greek in almost all cases shows a continuous repeated setr of actions.

The verses on this are clear...

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.