Does Anyone Here Believe in The Trinity?

[RLT63]

That does not describe my beliefs....I believe what the Bible says about who God is, and who Jesus is, and what the Holy Spirit is.

Please find me one direct statement in the Bible where either Jesus or his Father tell us unambiguously that they are equal parts of the same godhead along with the Holy Spirit.

You cannot build a doctrine on inference or suggestion. The trinity depends on both.

"The word was a god"?

 

[Enoch111]

Please read our Statement of Faith re: the Trinity. This is a Trinity affirming Christian forum and our SoF has been updated and clarified as per the changing environment re: growing membership and times we are living in. Statement on the Trinity

Well this has been going on for quite some time and there is no need to "tolerate" attacks against the Trinity which seems to be the case: "Topics and posts made against the Trinity will be evaluated by the Christianity Board team on a case by case basis. This may result in the deletion of a thread/post or the thread moved to the appropriate forum ie: Unorthodox forum. Nonetheless statements accusing Trinity believers of blasphemy, insults or other strongly worded statements of condemnation are not welcome here."

As far as I am concerned anyone who rejects the Trinity and the deity of Christ has no business on a Christian forum. They should seek out forums which agree with their ideas.

 

[Angelina]

Well this has been going on for quite some time and there is no need to "tolerate" attacks against the Trinity which seems to be the case: "Topics and posts made against the Trinity will be evaluated by the Christianity Board team on a case by case basis. This may result in the deletion of a thread/post or the thread moved to the appropriate forum ie: Unorthodox forum. Nonetheless statements accusing Trinity believers of blasphemy, insults or other strongly worded statements of condemnation are not welcome here."

As far as I am concerned anyone who rejects the Trinity and the deity of Christ has no business on a Christian forum. They should seek out forums which agree with their ideas.

There has been a recent adjustment to reflect the changing environment and also to re-establish our stance on the Trinity here @CyB. It had to be done or we would be constantly battling here and that is not what we want for CyB.

 

[Matthias]

You are welcome to fellowship here.

Thank you.

There are other topics to discuss other than the Trinity that you may find commonality with.

There are, and I have.

You are welcome to ask questions about the Trinity and anything regarding it.

Thanks again. I’m formally educated in theology. I have no questions about the Trinity. (Before retiring I taught trinitarianism at the college level - as an adjunct professor of theology at various trinitarian and non-trinitarian colleges.)

You do not have to agree with the doctrine of the Trinity…

Thank you.

…however, any anti-trinitarian threads will be either deleted, or moved to the appropriate forum.

I recommend moving to “the appropriate forum” rather than deleting - not for the benefit of our non-trinitarian members and readers of the forums but for the benefit of our trinitarian members and readers of the forums.

This is a closed-handed issue as stated by the original owner and creator of CyB.

All members and perspective members of CyB should know and be aware of what they’re letting themselves in for here.

 

[BeyondET]

Deuteronomy 4:39, Job 34:21, Isaiah 57:15, Jeremiah 23:23-24, Psalms 11:4, Psalms 139:2, Psalms 139:7-10, Matthew 6:6, Matthew 10:29-30
Luke 17:21, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Hebrews 4:13, Revelation 21:3 The Spirit of God is omnipresent. He is everywhere at once.

Rgr that God the Saviour is amazing

 

[Aunty Jane]

"The word was a god"?

The request was to find one direct statement, unambiguous and unequivocal where either God or his son state that God the Father is equal to his son in a godhead with the Holy Spirit.

Not one of the scriptures in that list fills that request.
Do you understand that if there was such a statement in God’s word, none of us would be here debating about it.

So conjecture, suggestion, and inference do not make a sound scriptural doctrine...especially one so very foundational. If we do not get this right, we could be found by God himself as worshipping the wrong god....in effect breaking God’s law, placing two other “gods” in the Father’s place.

If we do a bit of research into the word “god” (theos in Greek) for example....we might find that this word does not mean in Greek what it has come to mean in English.

Just because a person cannot accept the concept of the trinity because they do not find any real evidence for it in the Bible, does not mean that they are not Christians. We accept Jesus as our savior and we believe what the Bible says concerning all the things that Jesus taught, but providing a stream of scripture where every single one is either based on interpretation, assumption, or is a mistranslation, we must each do our own homework and NOT depend on a religious system that has proven its complete ineptitude in unifying the flock....teaching people what God requires of them.(1 Corinthians 1:10) The concentration seems to be on what God can do for them, rather than what they need to do for God.

John 15:9-10...
“Just as the Father has loved me, I have also loved you; remain in my love. If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.” (NET)

How does this scripture fit a trinity? Can one equal part of God love himself? Can one equal part of God obey himself? How did Jesus *remain* in his Father’s love? Could he have lost his Father’s love....could we?

Would you like a list of the things that Christendom’s churches teach and practice that are in direct opposition to Christ’s teachings? To disobey the Christ is to fail to be “loved” by either the Father or his son. Rejection will inevitably follow....none of us want to be on the receiving end of Jesus denunciation. (Matthew 7:21-23)

There is so much riding on this very important issue, so shutting down discussion about it would not benefit anyone. Keeping the discussion civil is what is hard for some.

 

[RLT63]

The request was to find one direct statement, unambiguous and unequivocal where either God or his son state that God the Father is equal to his son in a godhead with the Holy Spirit.

Not one of the scriptures in that list fills that request.
Do you understand that if there was such a statement in God’s word, none of us would be here debating about it.

So conjecture, suggestion, and inference do not make a sound scriptural doctrine...especially one so very foundational. If we do not get this right, we could be found by God himself as worshipping the wrong god....in effect breaking God’s law, placing two other “gods” in the Father’s place.

If we do a bit of research into the word “god” (theos in Greek) for example....we might find that this word does not mean in Greek what it has come to mean in English.

Just because a person cannot accept the concept of the trinity because they do not find any real evidence for it in the Bible, does not mean that they are not Christians. We accept Jesus as our savior and we believe what the Bible says concerning all the things that Jesus taught, but providing a stream of scripture where every single one is either based on interpretation, assumption, or is a mistranslation, we must each do our own homework and NOT depend on a religious system that has proven its complete ineptitude in unifying the flock....teaching people what God requires of them.(1 Corinthians 1:10) The concentration seems to be on what God can do for them, rather than what they need to do for God.

John 15:9-10...
“Just as the Father has loved me, I have also loved you; remain in my love. If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.” (NET)

How does this scripture fit a trinity? Can one equal part of God love himself? Can one equal part of God obey himself? How did Jesus *remain* in his Father’s love? Could he have lost his Father’s love....could we?

Would you like a list of the things that Christendom’s churches teach and practice that are in direct opposition to Christ’s teachings? To disobey the Christ is to fail to be “loved” by either the Father or his son. Rejection will inevitably follow....none of us want to be on the receiving end of Jesus denunciation. (Matthew 7:21-23)

There is so much riding on this very important issue, so shutting down discussion about it would not benefit anyone. Keeping the discussion civil is what is hard for some.

I'm not worried about worshipping the wrong God. The scriptures record plenty of people worshipping Jesus and he never corrected them.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'm not worried about worshipping the wrong God.

Neither were the Jews who executed Jesus Christ. They even cursed themselves and their children with his blood. (Matthew 27:25)
Jesus said that those who profess to be Christians, (calling him "Lord") when the final judgment comes, but who fail to "do the will of the Father" will NOT be shown favor. (Matthew 7:21-23)

The scriptures record plenty of people worshipping Jesus and he never corrected them.

There is a very good reason for that.....it wasn’t “worship” that he accepted.
Again we see original language word studies are vital or we can be taken off on wrong tangents.

The Greek word for “worship” is the same word as “obeisance”. Are these actions the same? No!
The Greek pro·sky·neʹo corresponds closely with the Hebrew sha·hhahʹ as to conveying the thought of both obeisance to creatures and worship to God or a deity. While the manner of expressing the obeisance is perhaps not so prominent in pro·sky·neʹo as in sha·hhahʹ, where the Hebrew term graphically conveys the thought of prostration or bowing down, some lexicographers suggest that originally the Greek term did emphatically portray this same idea.

How do we know which word to use? Easy....as with the Hebrew term, the context must be considered to determine whether pro·sky·neʹo refers to obeisance solely in the form of honor or deep respect, or obeisance in the form of religious worship. Where reference is directly to God (John 4:20-24; 1 Corinthians 14:25) it is rightly rendered "worship".

When the magi visited the child Jesus did they "worship" him? (Matthew 2:2) No! These pagan astrologers had not come to worship a new god, but to do obeisance to a new king. To render "worship" when "obeisance" is meant causes the truth of the scriptures to be twisted. You would be amazed at how many doctrines exist that are not of biblical origin, but made to appear as if they are. The master deceiver has been at work for a very long time. We can never take anything for granted.

You in the US call judges in the courts "Your Honor" but under the British system, (also followed by Australia) which was more closely tied to an older culture, judges were called "Your Worship" based on the meaning of that word in Greek.
Not all is as it seems....

 

[RLT63]

Neither were the Jews who executed Jesus Christ. They even cursed themselves and their children with his blood. (Matthew 27:25)
Jesus said that those who profess to be Christians, (calling him "Lord") when the final judgment comes, but who fail to "do the will of the Father" will NOT be shown favor. (Matthew 7:21-23)


There is a very good reason for that.....it wasn’t “worship” that he accepted.
Again we see original language word studies are vital or we can be taken off on wrong tangents.

The Greek word for “worship” is the same word as “obeisance”. Are these actions the same? No!
The Greek pro·sky·neʹo corresponds closely with the Hebrew sha·hhahʹ as to conveying the thought of both obeisance to creatures and worship to God or a deity. While the manner of expressing the obeisance is perhaps not so prominent in pro·sky·neʹo as in sha·hhahʹ, where the Hebrew term graphically conveys the thought of prostration or bowing down, some lexicographers suggest that originally the Greek term did emphatically portray this same idea.

How do we know which word to use? Easy....as with the Hebrew term, the context must be considered to determine whether pro·sky·neʹo refers to obeisance solely in the form of honor or deep respect, or obeisance in the form of religious worship. Where reference is directly to God (John 4:20-24; 1 Corinthians 14:25) it is rightly rendered "worship".

When the magi visited the child Jesus did they "worship" him? (Matthew 2:2) No! These pagan astrologers had not come to worship a new god, but to do obeisance to a new king. To render "worship" when "obeisance" is meant causes the truth of the scriptures to be twisted. You would be amazed at how many doctrines exist that are not of biblical origin, but made to appear as if they are. The master deceiver has been at work for a very long time. We can never take anything for granted.

You in the US call judges in the courts "Your Honor" but under the British system, (also followed by Australia) which was more closely tied to an older culture, judges were called "Your Worship" based on the meaning of that word in Greek.
Not all is as it seems....

All the scholars that translated all of the many versions of the Bible got this wrong and you know more than they do about which word should be used. Sorry but I'm going to go with the scholars on this one

 

[Aunty Jane]

All the scholars that translated all of the many versions of the Bible got this wrong and you know more than they do about which word should be used.

The "scholars" who translated the Bible into English were all biased towards the trinity. This is why we need to do word studies to see if they translated correctly.....

Sorry but I'm going to go with the scholars on this one

Your choice of course, just as long as you know who is running this show. (1 John 5:19)

Scholars can barely agree with each other. Pick your scholars I guess.

Jesus said that there would be true "wheat" and counterfeit "weeds", growing together in the same "field" when he returns as judge.....how can you tell a counterfeit from the real thing? Jesus knows, but do we?
Do you have to know what every counterfeit looks like? No! You just have to know what the real thing looks like and compare.

Do you know what original Christianity taught and practiced? If not, then it might be a good idea to do some research. Those whom Christ rejects on judgment day are taken by surprise and they offer him their excuses, but he tells them that he "NEVER KNEW" them. (Matthew 7:21-23) "NEVER means NOT EVER. Think about that for a moment....he rejects them entirely and has from their beginnings. Will we be among them?

 

[Aunty Jane]

This is a closed-handed issue as stated by the original owner and creator of CyB.

In voicing my own concerns to the site's new owner, he gave me his assurance...

"Thanks for voicing your concern, I don’t plan on changing the culture here at all."
New Owner/Admin @CyB

Open and honest debate is healthy...if people want to live in an echo chamber, what is the point of that?
Preaching to the choir is not what Jesus asked us to do. Having someone challenge what we believe is good for us. It makes us determined to do our homework and settle ourselves about what is true for us.....it may not be true for someone else....but that's OK. Jesus is watching closely and the dividing of the sheep from the goats is not far away. Our decisions are affecting his decisions.

An undefended faith is not worth having.....we need to know what we believe and why we believe it, but there is no need for shoving things down people's throats with angry retorts. Surely we are all adults here and can control our emotions, as self-control is one of the fruits of God's spirit.

We can state what we believe and leave others to evaluate what we have said and the biblical reasons for our views. Why is that so hard?

 

[JohnPaul]

All the scholars that translated all of the many versions of the Bible got this wrong and you know more than they do about which word should be used. Sorry but I'm going to go with the scholars on this one

One doesn't need to be a clock maker in order to tell time.

 

[JohnPaul]

In voicing my own concerns to the site's new owner, he gave me his assurance...

"Thanks for voicing your concern, I don’t plan on changing the culture here at all."
New Owner/Admin @CyB

Open and honest debate is healthy...if people want to live in an echo chamber, what is the point of that?
Preaching to the choir is not what Jesus asked us to do. Having someone challenge what we believe is good for us. It makes us determined to do our homework and settle ourselves about what is true for us.....it may not be true for someone else....but that's OK. Jesus is watching closely and the dividing of the sheep from the goats is not far away. Our decisions are affecting his decisions.

An undefended faith is not worth having.....we need to know what we believe and why we believe it, but there is no need for shoving things down people's throats with angry retorts. Surely we are all adults here and can control our emotions, as self-control is one of the fruits of God's spirit.

We can state what we believe and leave others to evaluate what we have said and the biblical reasons for our views. Why is that so hard?

Hi Aunty Jane, I notice some people have an attitude as of late, keep preaching it Sister, though I know you don’t need it, I’ll always have your back, some people need to learn some manners and how to be courteous.

 

[Angelina]

In voicing my own concerns to the site's new owner, he gave me his assurance...

"Thanks for voicing your concern, I don’t plan on changing the culture here at all."
New Owner/Admin @CyB

Open and honest debate is healthy...if people want to live in an echo chamber, what is the point of that?
Preaching to the choir is not what Jesus asked us to do. Having someone challenge what we believe is good for us. It makes us determined to do our homework and settle ourselves about what is true for us.....it may not be true for someone else....but that's OK. Jesus is watching closely and the dividing of the sheep from the goats is not far away. Our decisions are affecting his decisions.

An undefended faith is not worth having.....we need to know what we believe and why we believe it, but there is no need for shoving things down people's throats with angry retorts. Surely we are all adults here and can control our emotions, as self-control is one of the fruits of God's spirit.

We can state what we believe and leave others to evaluate what we have said and the biblical reasons for our views. Why is that so hard?

As stated in the Sof, If threads become anti-trinitarian, they will be moved to the appropriate forum or deleted as determined by the moderating team member.

The Trinity as a close-handed issue, was instigated years before you joined CyB. "The Culture here will remain," as per status quo.... If you have an issue with this, please feel free to leave. Thank you for your imput.

 

[RLT63]

One doesn't need to be a clock maker in order to tell time.

Apparently one has to be able to read Greek to understand the plain sense of the Bible

 

[Matthias]

I'm not worried about worshipping the wrong God.

Jesus also worshiped his God and our God with confidence.

The scriptures record plenty of people worshipping Jesus and he never corrected them.

Kings never do.

 

[JohnPaul]

Apparently one has to be able to read Greek to understand the plain sense of the Bible

I just speak and read in English, sorry.

 

[RLT63]

I just speak and read I’m English, sorry.

Me too.

 

[APAK]

Hi Aunty Jane, I notice some people have an attitude as of late, keep preaching it Sister.

The walls have been breached and the draw bridge smashed. The archers on the walls have all disappeared. Inside they frantically plan their last stand. Stay tuned for how it all turns out..

I was expecting this Trinitarian frustration, whining and pushback many months ago. It will only get worse when more non-Trinitarians jump on board here and expose how little they know about scripture regarding the nature of Yahshua the Christ and his Father.

Until that time then, when they close the doors on me, I too will keep on with the word of God.

 

[Angelina]

The walls have been breached and the draw bridge smashed. The archers on the walls have all disappeared. Inside they frantically plan their last stand. Stay tuned for how it all turns out..

I was expecting this Trinitarian frustration, whining and pushback many months ago. It will only get worse when more non-Trinitarians jump on board here and expose how little they know about scripture regarding the nature of Yahshua the Christ and his Father.

Until that time then, when they close the doors on me, I too will keep on with the word of God.

Please do what you have to and we will reply accordingly. Blessing and Peace to you and yours xox