does Christ know how many mansions to build?

[quietthinker]

does Christ know how many mansions to build?
did you want to update the details?

 

[post]

does Christ know how many mansions to build?
did you want to update the details?

pretty sure He has the blueprints

jejeje

He is the Architect

Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith
(Hebrews 2:2)​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I think this gives more insight into what Jesus was talking about:

"1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2For in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4So while we are in this tent, we groan under our burdens, because we do not wish to be unclothed but clothed, so that our mortality may be swallowed up by life." 2 Corinthians 5:1-4​

 

[post]

I checked the first verse you displayed - it does not relate to the subject at hand, does it?

specifically:

if you do not forgive men their trespasses,
neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
(Matthew 6:15)​

clearly unforgiveness exists.

you had said you suspect God prepares a room for "all of us" ((link to your comment)) - which, i took your 'all' to mean all mankind, in particular because you announced your view as being potentially controversial. the idea that God prepares a place for all who are saved is not controversial; the idea that all are saved certainly is, as well as the idea that God prepares a room in His house for people He knows will never enter it - for example, Judas goes to His own place ((Acts 1:25)). does Christ prepare a room in heaven for Judas?

so universalist-unitarianism is directly related to the thread topic, because it has to do with whether all mankind has a dwellin in heaven waiting for them or not, that being relevant to the number of houses/mansions/rooms/abodes/wedding-garments. were universalst-unitarianism true, then the question would become does God know how many souls will exist; is this a fixed number?
His omniscience demands the answer is yes - however Bob, in the post i linked above, you also question His omniscience, saying He has 'a pretty good idea' what you will do but He doesn't actually know.

and Matthew 6:15 is directly related to this because forgiveness is prerequisite to entering His Kingdom. ((need proof? 1 Corinthians 6:9 + Mark 10:18 + Romans 3:10 etc etc etc))
if there are people whose sins are not forgiven them, then there are people who do have no place in the Father's house. that means either there are empty rooms/mansions/houses/etc ((in the case Christ builds the wrong number of them)) or the number of abodes/places/houses/white-robes is less than the total number of humans ((in the case that God knows how many sheep He has, per John 6:64, John 10:14, etc etc etc)).

so Bob - are there any people in the history of humanity who do not forgive others?

 

[post]

I think this gives more insight into what Jesus was talking about:

"1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2For in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4So while we are in this tent, we groan under our burdens, because we do not wish to be unclothed but clothed, so that our mortality may be swallowed up by life." 2 Corinthians 5:1-4​

oh look, you just incidentally destroyed 'soul sleep' temporary-annihilation-upon-physical-death teaching.

cool

 

[Ferris Bueller]

oh look, you just incidentally destroyed 'soul sleep' temporary-annihilation-upon-physical-death teaching.

cool

While I don't agree with soul sleep I'm not sure how this passage refutes it.
But to the point of the OP, I think we can discern that Jesus is probably not talking about a structure or a building in which we will reside like we do here. Most of the knowledge about the nature of the life to come has not been revealed to us and that lack of knowledge seems to indicate it will not resemble the way we live and exist in this life. So, I think it more helpful to go with what Paul talks about - the laying aside of the tent of our earthly bodies (tents are temporary) and the future inhabitation of our eternal, glorified bodies.

 

[Bob Estey]

specifically:

if you do not forgive men their trespasses,
neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
(Matthew 6:15)​

clearly unforgiveness exists.

you had said you suspect God prepares a room for "all of us" ((link to your comment)) - which, i took your 'all' to mean all mankind, in particular because you announced your view as being potentially controversial. the idea that God prepares a place for all who are saved is not controversial; the idea that all are saved certainly is, as well as the idea that God prepares a room in His house for people He knows will never enter it - for example, Judas goes to His own place ((Acts 1:25)). does Christ prepare a room in heaven for Judas?

so universalist-unitarianism is directly related to the thread topic, because it has to do with whether all mankind has a dwellin in heaven waiting for them or not, that being relevant to the number of houses/mansions/rooms/abodes/wedding-garments. were universalst-unitarianism true, then the question would become does God know how many souls will exist; is this a fixed number?
His omniscience demands the answer is yes - however Bob, in the post i linked above, you also question His omniscience, saying He has 'a pretty good idea' what you will do but He doesn't actually know.

and Matthew 6:15 is directly related to this because forgiveness is prerequisite to entering His Kingdom. ((need proof? 1 Corinthians 6:9 + Mark 10:18 + Romans 3:10 etc etc etc))
if there are people whose sins are not forgiven them, then there are people who do have no place in the Father's house. that means either there are empty rooms/mansions/houses/etc ((in the case Christ builds the wrong number of them)) or the number of abodes/places/houses/white-robes is less than the total number of humans ((in the case that God knows how many sheep He has, per John 6:64, John 10:14, etc etc etc)).

so Bob - are there any people in the history of humanity who do not forgive others?

You lost me. I said that I thought God would make it clear to us at some point that we had two choices - suffer immensely in our sin, or go to heaven, and that it would be hard not to choose heaven.

 

[post]

You lost me. I said that I thought God would make it clear to us at some point that we had two choices - suffer immensely in our sin, or go to heaven, and that it would be hard not to choose heaven.

you said you believe He prepares a room for "all of us"

who do you mean by "all" ?
how many is that? proportionately?

 

[quietthinker]

you said you believe He prepares a room for "all of us"

who do you mean by "all" ?
how many is that? proportionately?

how come you don't know that?.....I mean, look at all the stars out there...and the sand on the sea shore, surely you've got around to counting them, plus or minus half a dozen of course.....that should give you some sort of idea!

 

[post]

While I don't agree with soul sleep I'm not sure how this passage refutes it.

because the resurrection is here described as a change of clothes, not a recreation of soul which was annihilated upon undressing.

But to the point of the OP, I think we can discern that Jesus is probably not talking about a structure or a building in which we will reside like we do here. Most of the knowledge about the nature of the life to come has not been revealed to us and that lack of knowledge seems to indicate it will not resemble the way we live and exist in this life. So, I think it more helpful to go with what Paul talks about - the laying aside of the tent of our earthly bodies (tents are temporary) and the future inhabitation of our eternal, glorified bodies.

i think we have to put this together with several things, including Revelation 21:9-10, where an angel tells John, "I will show you the Bride, the Wife of the Lamb" -- and what John sees is Jerusalem above, descending from heaven.

so the Bride is the heavenly city.

similarly in 2 Corinthians 5, which you put for us, Paul is alternating between describing our resurrection & transformation as a change of garment and a new building. and Peter in another place says we are being built up as living stones into a spiritual house ((1 Peter 2:5)). in 2 Peter 1 he also describes this earthly body as a tent, one in which we sojourn now - waiting for it to be exchanged for a permenant dwelling.

all this harkens back to the Exodus, to the Feast of Booths - and these apostles are likening our wanderings now in the flesh, waiting for His return, with looking forward to entering the promise, where we will have a permenant home

 

[Ferris Bueller]

i think we have to put this together with several things, including Revelation 21:9-10, where an angel tells John, "I will show you the Bride, the Wife of the Lamb" -- and what John sees is Jerusalem above, descending from heaven.

so the Bride is the heavenly city.

And so there's the answer to your question.
If you want to look at it literally, the size of the New Jerusalem is already determined. He already knows ahead of time how big he needs to make it to accommodate those who will inhabit the New Jerusalem. But I prefer to look at the promise of an eternal house and the New Jerusalem more in terms of what we will be, perfectly dimensioned and adorned and constructed, able to withstand the fires of judgement, and not so much in terms of a place where we will live.

"5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 2:5

10 ...I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work." 1 Corinthians 3:10-13​

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Jesus is creating positions of authority, not "dwelling places" or "mansions". This is one of those reasons why people should often consult the inspired text instead of being super reliant on translated bibles. Translated bibles often do a poor job at conveying what the inspired text says and it results in people being confused or misled into false theology. "Dwelling places" or "mansions" should've been rendered as "offices". Ezekiel's vision about the Millennial Temple strongly proves this is the case since God gives details there about where the immortalized saints will be stationed and what they will be doing.

Not according to scripture:

Isaiah 45:7

King James Version

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

The inspired text shows God saying "calamity", not "evil". This is a great example of what i said about translated bibles misleading people into false theology. Evil didn't exist until Satan rejected God's government and led other angels into doing the same. Jas. 1:17 says there is no lawlessness in God, therefore, it is literally impossible for Him to sin or create evil. If God created evil, then Satan cannot be held responsible for his actions, now could he?

 

[post]

This is one of those reasons why people should often consult the inspired text instead of being super reliant on translated bibles. Translated bibles often do a poor job at conveying what the inspired text says and it results in people being confused or misled into false theology. "Dwelling places" or "mansions" should've been rendered as "offices"

hmm


((consults inspired text))

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3438: μόνη​

μόνη, μόνης, ἡ (μένω) (from Herodotus down), a staying, abiding, dwelling, abode: John 14:2;
μόνην ποιεῖν (L T Tr WH ποιεῖσθαι, as in Thucydides 1, 131; Josephus, Antiquities 8, 13, 7; 13, 2, 1), to make an (one's) abode,
παρά τίνι metaphorically, of God and Christ by their power and spirit exerting a most blessed influence on the souls of believers, John 14:23; see ποιῶ, 1 c.

​

ain't seeing "offices" anywhere here, m8.

 

[quietthinker]

I think I'll get my anatomy and physiology book out (and a few 'how to's) when I cuddle my grandkids just to check if I'm doing it right.....I might have missed the stroking the cheek manoeuvre.

 

[post]

I think I'll get my anatomy and physiology book out (and a few 'how to's) when I cuddle my grandkids just to check if I'm doing it right.....I might have missed the stroking the cheek manoeuvre.

crazy, i never took anatomy & physiology..
had no idea there were instructions for that

 

[quietthinker]

crazy, i never took anatomy & physiology..
had no idea there were instructions for that

ohhh, but there are for getting intimate with God aren't there?.....a certain ambiance, low lighting, on the knees posture, sharp and thought out words to really make an impression, certain gestures to ensure all the t's are crossed......never mind that one has investments that exploit workers elsewhere on the planet, you could always say you're earning money for the Lord's work.

 

[Bob Estey]

you said you believe He prepares a room for "all of us"

who do you mean by "all" ?
how many is that? proportionately?

I don't remember saying that. Once again, I believe the Lord at some point will make it clear to each of us that we have two choices: suffer immensely or not suffer at all. I cannot know which choice people will make, but I wonder why anyone would choose to suffer immensely.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I don't remember saying that. Once again, I believe the Lord at some point will make it clear to each of us that we have two choices: suffer immensely or not suffer at all. I cannot know which choice people will make, but I wonder why anyone would choose to suffer immensely.

if that were true, then everyone would be trying to get saved. we know thats not true. You talk like a universalist.

 

[post]

I don't remember saying that. Once again, I believe the Lord at some point will make it clear to each of us that we have two choices: suffer immensely or not suffer at all. I cannot know which choice people will make, but I wonder why anyone would choose to suffer immensely.

ok, then let me remind you again:

This is controversial, but I think in the end we will all choose heaven over hell, though it only comes to pass if we repent of our sin. And so God prepares a room for all of us, I suspect.

and as i earlier wrote to you, i'll write again also -- that the scripture tells us exactly why people, in fact the majority of people, choose & receive damnation:

And this is the condemnation,
that The Light has come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.
(John 3:19)​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

we have two choices: suffer immensely or not suffer at all. I cannot know which choice people will make, but I wonder why anyone would choose to suffer immensely.

Because they love darkness.

"...men loved the darkness rather than the Light..." John 3:19​