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Does evil exist?

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by univac, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. Shornaal

    Shornaal New Member

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    (univac;59260)
    Ok you don't belive in God and have no Questions ,so why are you still here?
    You believe in God and have no answers, why are you here?Everytime I ask questions I either get biblical quotes having nothing to do with the question slapped in my face or you ignore me.An old question I asked was something like: Why do you hate and demostrate against gays but not those who work on the sabbath, women who speak in church and all other rules in the old testament? Also do I still have the right to claim the children of immigrants as slaves?Never got a straight answer.
     
  2. univac

    univac New Member

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    (Shornaal;59261)
    You believe in God and have no answers, why are you here?Everytime I ask questions I either get biblical quotes having nothing to do with the question slapped in my face or you ignore me.An old question I asked was something like: Why do you hate and demostrate against gays but not those who work on the sabbath, women who speak in church and all other rules in the old testament? Also do I still have the right to claim the children of immigrants as slaves?Never got a straight answer.
    Personally I don't Judge anyone, so I don't hate, for I am a sinner, I'm not a hypocrite, secondly I don't see flesh but Spirit,
     
  3. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    Isa. 45:7 and Amos 3:6. Take a look @ these scriptures and let me know what you think.Logabe
     
  4. Sasha

    Sasha New Member

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    An old question I asked was something like: Why do you hate and demostrate against gays We don't hate the person, we hate the sin, we hate the lifestyle. Don't put words in our mouths.but not those who work on the sabbath, Most people don't even realize the sabbath is Saturday, the catholics changed it so teh pagans would take part of their belief system.women who speak in church and all other rules in the old testament? Paul said that women should not speak in church because he was in a muslin country and men ruled over women. Jesus broke the curse of the old testament "rules" as you put it. If we ignore you questions, it may simply be because we don't have the answer. You could do a study on these things and help us to understand them.
     
  5. jeffhughes

    jeffhughes New Member

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    (Alpha and Omega;59252)
    Thats the point.
    Oh, so you're saying that God gives us power, it's just that we can't use it? Well that's pretty useless. Then why is God a liar?Mind you, I understand that what you're trying to imply was that I was never a Christian. You're wrong, but thank you for your shallow, preconceived judgment. However, since you obviously, then, claim to be a true Christian, I would like to see some mountain-moving. "God said it, I believe it, that settles it," right? Jesus said you could move mountains, even with a tiny amount of faith. So a good way to demonstrate your belief in God would be to demonstrate your faith in his words. I'd like one of the Alps to come over to North America, please. After I'm done skiing, of course, you can put it back if you like.My question is: How do you reconcile this? If Jesus didn't actually say this, then the Bible is incorrect. If Jesus said it, but didn't mean it, then he's a liar. If Jesus said it and meant it, but it is untrue, then he is deluded and also not the Son of God. But if Jesus said it, and meant it, and it is true, then you should be able to move a mountain, just as he says. Since I'm assuming you can't, therefore, try choosing one of the other options.(Jordan;59253)
    Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.Proverbs 3:6 - In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.Proverbs 3:7 - Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil...........Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Yeah. Tried that. Tried to fear the Lord and all that jazz. I threw out my own understanding for a while. The only thing is that verses like these do not answer anything. I can't reconcile that God would tell us something that is untrue, and to throw my hands up and get rid of my own understanding on the matter, to believe that somehow it is true, even though it's a logical contradiction, is just silly. I would rather evaluate what I believe to see if it actually is true, rather than believing something to be true against all available evidence (and indeed, logic itself).(logabe;59267)
    Isa. 45:7 and Amos 3:6. Take a look @ these scriptures and let me know what you think.Logabe
    Looks like God is the author of evil. Not sure whether you're on the side of Christians or non-Christians, but either way, you've brought up a very good point. Scholars will tell you that in the Old Testament, God had more of a dualistic nature - he was responsible for both good and evil. As the concept of an afterlife came into play, however, it became necessary to separate these two concepts into two opposing beings - thus the advent of God vs. Satan. This is why in the Old Testament, God can be the author of evil, and Satan can be standing at God's side, but in the New Testament, Satan gets blamed for all the bad stuff.
     
  6. Shornaal

    Shornaal New Member

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    (Sasha;59274)
    An old question I asked was something like: Why do you hate and demostrate against gays We don't hate the person, we hate the sin, we hate the lifestyle. Don't put words in our mouths.but not those who work on the sabbath, Most people don't even realize the sabbath is Saturday, the catholics changed it so teh pagans would take part of their belief system.women who speak in church and all other rules in the old testament? Paul said that women should not speak in church because he was in a muslin country and men ruled over women. Jesus broke the curse of the old testament rules. If we ignore you questions, it may simply be because we don't have the answer. You could do a study on these things and help us to understand them.
    Sorry, didn't mean to put words in your mouth by 'you' I meant christians a whole, a lot of homosexuals have been assaulted by christians, espewcially fathers who finds out their son/daughter is gay.As for Jesus abolishing old testament's rules then wouldn't homosexuality be ok now?
     
  7. Sasha

    Sasha New Member

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    (jeffhughes;59251)
    I dare say that there are enough Christians all over this planet that, collectively, they should be able to end all suffering. Either Christians are incompetent, or else they do not have the power you say they do. Or they don't know they have the power and therefore don't use it.Have you ever done such a thing as to rebuke a storm and have it stop? Yes, several! Not that you would believe that unless you saw it with your own eyes. God has given me authority and I believe it. Therefore, God honors His word by responding to my faith in action.Have you gone up to someone with cancer or AIDS and said, "I rebuke you, disease", and have them healed? I highly doubt it.Your faith has to grow for cancer healing faith, start off with a spirit of asthma. Then take dominion over the body and command it to be healed, in the name of Jesus. Then Praise God for your healing, even if it has not manifested in the natural yet. It's on it's way, be patient. God responds to faith. Hold fast to your confession, of healing, and you will receive what was promised, your healing. It's one thing to say you have power. It's another thing to demonstrate it.Thank you for confirming my point. It's one thing to have it, which all christians that are baptized with the Holy Spirit do have the power of the Holy Spirit in them. And you're right, it's another thing to demonstrate it!! We must believe it in our hearts, and confess it with our mouths. And it will come to pass.Then DO IT. I have been.Why don't you start travelling the world and ending disease right now? Hmm? Come on, if you truly believe you have this power, and if you are trying to model Christ, then you should do the loving thing and start travelling the world, ridding it of suffering and disease. Book a plane ticket. Travel to Africa. Start rebuking the AIDS demons.God hasn't told me too. He's preparing me for when I come across people like, I'll know what to say. And Like I said our faith has to grow, my faith is still growing." . Or are you too afraid to find out that you might not have this alleged power?Fear is a demonic spirit. God did not give me a spirit of fear, but, of power, love, and a sound mind. This verse does not say anything about demons. It just talks about a storm, and then Jesus stops it. You keep agreeing with me, Jesus stopped the storm, Jesus said these things I do, you will do also.There is nothing in the Bible about demons causing earthquakes, storms, hurricanes, etc.Who is the prince of the air? Satan comes to kill, steal, and destroy, isn't that what earthquakes, storms, and hurricanes do? They do nothing but kill, steal and destroy. So, it's doesn't take to much time to see who creates natural disasters. Satan takes everything that God created and tries to twist it and pervert it. Well, you obviously do, so put your money where your mouth is. When I see the news reports, I'll take you more seriously.Well, maybe someday I will have a healing ministry, and God will send me to africa, and you can read about it in the paper.I have never witnessed a mountain being moved, other than through the very slow shifting of the tectonic plates. Do you not move mountains because you don't truly believe this verse is true, or because you do not have this power? I would like a mountain to be placed by my house, if you are able. I've always wanted to say I had a mountain view. Unfortunately, when I was a Christian, I was never able to tap into this supposed power. Perhaps you can help me out?
    Jesus was giving that example to show you that NOTHING shall be impossible for you. However, you use faith where it is NEEDED, not to show signs and wonders. Tempt not the Lord your God. If a mountain were to be cast into the sea, it would cause the sea level to rise and more people would die. So, we follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit. There is no reason to tell a mountain to be cast into the sea. But, if God wants to use that to rid the world of evil men, then I guess he can. OH, wait God said He would never flood the world again. And He gave us the rainbow as a reminder of that promise. And look what the devil has tried to make to rainbow represent today? I told you the devil tries to take what beauty God has created and pervert it.
     
  8. Sasha

    Sasha New Member

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    (Shornaal;59276)
    Sorry, didn't mean to put words in your mouth by 'you' I meant christians a whole, a lot of homosexuals have been assaulted by christians, espewcially fathers who finds out their son/daughter is gay.As for Jesus abolishing old testament's rules then wouldn't homosexuality be ok now?
    I've got to go for now, I'll talk more later.God Bless.
     
  9. jeffhughes

    jeffhughes New Member

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    [quote name='Sasha;59277]Or they don't know they have the power and therefore don't use it.[/QUOTE]Convenient.
    Please provide some examples.
     
  10. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Shornaal;59259)
    (Jordan;59244)
    I am a guy... And your belief is wrong. It contradicts God's Words. Along with your statement in below quote.
    Your belief is wrong, it contradicts reason and my words.If God has a problem with it he can come see me himself.Also since you guys don't believe in hell I have nothing to fear from not following him, I'd rather die the second death than live forever.My words and your words vanish every single second, but God's Words lives every single second and can't die. (Isaiah 40:8, Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)And by the way, the second death is that Hell. So you would wish that you don't want to be remembered by anybody?(jeffhughes;59275)
    (Jordan;59253)
    Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.Proverbs 3:6 - In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.Proverbs 3:7 - Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil...........Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Yeah. Tried that. Tried to fear the Lord and all that jazz. I threw out my own understanding for a while. The only thing is that verses like these do not answer anything. I can't reconcile that God would tell us something that is untrue, and to throw my hands up and get rid of my own understanding on the matter, to believe that somehow it is true, even though it's a logical contradiction, is just silly. I would rather evaluate what I believe to see if it actually is true, rather than believing something to be true against all available evidence (and indeed, logic itself).Human reasoning is pointless and unhealthy...having a godly reasoning is so healthy and right. However because you tried that, apparently you don't understand God's Words at all, most like a wordly version of God's Words (ie men lies and tradition)
     
  11. haanne

    haanne New Member

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    I liked your story
     
  12. Sasha

    Sasha New Member

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    1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."God Bless you.
     
  13. jeffhughes

    jeffhughes New Member

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    (Sasha;59307)
    1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."God Bless you.
    Of course. You resort to this. I simply asked for examples of you showing this power you say you have. You know, since I used to believe exactly what you do - I believed I had this same power. But then I realized that beliefs should be based on evidence, not wishful thinking.If you do decide to tell me about examples of you rebuking demons or what have you, I'm still all ears. I am not one to turn away from good, solid proof.
     
  14. univac

    univac New Member

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    Jeff I will give you all proof you need, Christ died for you and came back to life and ascended to heaven, thats all the proof you will get and need.God bless
     
  15. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    (jeffhughes;59275)
    Oh, so you're saying that God gives us power, it's just that we can't use it? Well that's pretty useless. Then why is God a liar?Mind you, I understand that what you're trying to imply was that I was never a Christian. You're wrong, but thank you for your shallow, preconceived judgment. However, since you obviously, then, claim to be a true Christian, I would like to see some mountain-moving. "God said it, I believe it, that settles it," right? Jesus said you could move mountains, even with a tiny amount of faith. So a good way to demonstrate your belief in God would be to demonstrate your faith in his words. I'd like one of the Alps to come over to North America, please. After I'm done skiing, of course, you can put it back if you like.
    Why so much hate in your post? No, I was not implying that at all. You never had that power, neither do I. I believe but its still not good enough to move mountains. In that passage Jesus was talking to his disciples. Not even they had that much faith. (jeffhughes;59275)
    My question is: How do you reconcile this? If Jesus didn't actually say this, then the Bible is incorrect. If Jesus said it, but didn't mean it, then he's a liar. If Jesus said it and meant it, but it is untrue, then he is deluded and also not the Son of God. But if Jesus said it, and meant it, and it is true, then you should be able to move a mountain, just as he says. Since I'm assuming you can't, therefore, try choosing one of the other options.
    Take into consideration of how small a mustard seed is and you will see how little faith one needs. Obviously my faith or anyone else's is inadequate to move mountains. What I do not understand is how ME moving mountains or not makes Jesus a liar, not the son of God, or deluded? My faith just like the men who followed him is inadequate to do such things. This does not make Jesus a liar because of someones lack of faith.
     
  16. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    (logabe;59267)
    Isa. 45:7 and Amos 3:6. Take a look @ these scriptures and let me know what you think.Logabe
    What are you trying to say logabe?
     
  17. Lookin4wardtoHeaven

    Lookin4wardtoHeaven New Member

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    Univac, Nice story...makes you think . Here are some scriptures I thought I would share that I found.~~~~~James 1:12-18 (King James Version) 12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creaturesGod :blessyou:
     
  18. univac

    univac New Member

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    (Lookin'4wardtoHeaven;59327)
    Univac, Nice story...makes you think . Here are some scriptures I thought I would share that I found.~~~~~James 1:12-18 (King James Version) 12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creaturesGod :blessyou:
    Thankyou for the Daily breadGod bless you
     
  19. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    EVIL-anything that is bad or adverse that happens in MY earthly point of veiw. It includes all calamities that may occur, such as earthquakes, whirlwinds, famines, and pestilence. It also includes all judgment for moral sins. We are told in the Bible that God brings evils upon an individual, a city, a nation, or even the whole world in accordance with the Divine Law. God is the only one capable of turning evil into good. Man has tried for thousands of years and have failed. God uses evil to cause a person to repent and if he doesn't he will become bitter and blame God in his own ignorants. Joseph and Job were a good example of how God uses evil to mature a person in the Kingdom. Logabe
     
  20. Sasha

    Sasha New Member

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    (jeffhughes;59309)
    Of course. You resort to this. I simply asked for examples of you showing this power you say you have. You know, since I used to believe exactly what you do - I believed I had this same power. But then I realized that beliefs should be based on evidence, not wishful thinking.If you do decide to tell me about examples of you rebuking demons or what have you, I'm still all ears. I am not one to turn away from good, solid proof.
    I will when I have a moment to do so, I've got more in my life then just CB. I will also give you scripture to confirm what I'm telling you about.Just for the record, it is not MY power, it is the same power Jesus had. Jesus himself said you will be endowed with power.
     
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