Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

[Bible Highlighter]

this just proves you have failed to repent.

But your belief is not in the Bible and you both have failed to demonstrate this. Why would I seek forgiveness with God over a false belief that justifies sin? It makes no sense.

You accusations against myself and @mailmandan or readily and openly shown, You know what they are.

No I don’t know what they are. Dan claims he believes 1 John 1:9, Matthew 5:28-30, etcetera but he does not really believe these verses.

1 John 1:9 is salvific and he does not think it is. He sees it as descriptive of a believer (an after effect) when in reality it uses the IF word in there in that it is setting a condition of what we must do so as to maintain forgiveness (salvation) with God. Some in your camp say that 1 John 1:9 is dealing only in a break in fellowship and not a loss of salvation. This again is purely imaginary. There is no such thing as being forgiven by God without it involving our salvation. Salvation and the forgiveness of sins is tied together. In fact, repentance is seeking forgiveness of one’s sins with God and Jesus basically said that if we don’t repent we will perish (See: Luke 13:3).

Matthew 5:28-30 is another piece of Scripture that is denied by your camp. You and Dan don’t believe you literally are in danger of hell fire bodily by looking upon a woman in lust. Yet, that is what the words of Jesus are teaching here. You both believe future sin is paid for by a belief alone in Jesus and so individual sin does not separate you from God.

You are just trying to run from them.

Nope. I am asking you to make your case and we can discuss them. It seems you are the one who is running because you are not really willing to make a list of accusations I made that you believe are false.

You may not believe in our gospel. it does not make us in error.

The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
Your view of salvation is that all future sin is paid for and therefore no believer needs to worry about losing sin if they sin on occasion.
This is a false belief not taught in the Bible because Jesus warned how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife (Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62).

we also reject your works based salvation. as we believe it is in error.

You are not reject my salvation but you are rejecting God’s Word. I will show again what the Bible says on this matter.

You want me to stop calling you dude. Stop falsy accusing people. and repent.

Again, you have not really brought up any case of how I falsely accused anyone here. It’s just your claim that has no merit (unless you can prove otherwise). It’s why we have things like court hearings, etcetera.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Eternally Grateful

Works For Salvation Verses (After We are Saved By God’s Grace):

1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24).
   
   
2. “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).
   
   
3. 10 “For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:10, and Titus 1:16).
   
   
4. “And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).
   
   
5. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).
   
   
6. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).
   
   
7. “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee ? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee ? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:34-46).
   
   
8. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).
   
   
9. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).
   
   
10. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:5-6).
    
    
11. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).
    
    
12. “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14).
    
    
13. “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).
    
    
14. “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4).
    
    
15. “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,…” (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
    
    
16. “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” (1 Timothy 5:8).
    
    
17. ”Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.” (John 8:51).
    
    
18. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But your belief is not in the Bible and you both have failed to demonstrate this.

You do not even know what my belief is, You prove this by falsly accusing us.

so you have no leg to stand on.

and you do need to seek forgiveness, bearing false witness is a sin

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Eternally Grateful

I see salvation like this:

Note: This is not Calvinism. I see God giving us initial drawings and illuminations of His Word to either accept or reject His free gift of salvation.

But make no mistake, the Bible teaches:

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful

I see salvation like this:

Note: This is not Calvinism. I see God giving us initial drawings and illuminations of His Word to either accept or reject His free gift of salvation.

But make no mistake, the Bible teaches:

if it is of grace it is no longer works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

You are like the galation church. you teach we begin, or are initially saved, in the spirit (faith) but we must perfect that salvation in the flesh (works)

all one has to do is look at this post. and they can see. you believe one must work to maintain salvation. that is rejecting grace.

You have no faith in the power of God to change the people he saved. if you did, you would not claim people have to of their own power work in order to change..

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You do not even know what my belief is, You prove this by falsly accusing us.

so you have no leg to stand on.

and you do need to seek forgiveness, bearing false witness is a sin

You don’t believe all future sin is paid for by a belief alone in Jesus as your Savior?
You said here that future sins is forgiven you. By default, this means that committing sin on occasion does not mean you lose your salvation.

You also appear to hold to Dan’s view of practicing sin being indicative of a believer who is genuine and truly born of God here. Dan even liked this post by you (because it obviously aligns with his belief).

Yet you contradict yourself by also stating:

“I think you may need to study what living in sin is. A non believers lives in sin, it is all they know. They can do no good.

Either way. I know I am right. Even the prodigal did not stop being a son. His father blood ran through him. You can’t take that away,

The blood of Jesus is in my veins, You can’t take that away. I have been born again by incorruptible seed.”

~ Quote by: Eternally Grateful.​

Source quote.

The prodigal son was living it up with prostitutes. So you are saying that you are still saved even if this were to happen?
What about that whole argument before about how true believers don’t practice sin?

Side Note:

How exactly is your Soteriology on the point of sin different than Dan’s viewpoint?
You both appear to believe the same thing on this point. You both believe you can sin and still be saved. Granted, you may or may not believe something additional that Dan may not believe in regards to Soteriology, but the point is that you both appear to agree on certain points (of which I pointed out is unbiblical and false). If you believe I have accused you or Dan falsely, then please feel free to say how I did that. If not, then that is just your own empty claim. If I did falsely accuse you about something you don’t believe, then I would be more than happy to apologize. But I am only going off what you and Dan have said so far.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

if it is of grace it is no longer works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

I am aware of Romans 11:6. But Paul is talking in context to Jews who need to be initially saved by God’s grace in Romans 9, Romans 10, and Romans 11. Paul is not referring to what happens after you are first initially saved by God’s grace. Being saved by God’s grace initially is without works otherwise it is no more grace. That’s the point he was making. Paul was also fighting against the heresy of what I call Circumcision Salvationism (Which is a false belief that said you have to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved - See Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, Acts 15:24, Galatians 5:2, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12).

You are like the galation church. you teach we begin, or are initially saved, in the spirit (faith) but we must perfect that salvation in the flesh (works)

Paul is not talking about works in general. Paul is referring to circumcision done for initial salvation.

1. Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”
   
   
2. Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”
   
   
3. Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
   
   
4. Galatians 6:15 (NLT) says, “It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.”

all one has to do is look at this post. and they can see. you believe one must work to maintain salvation. that is rejecting grace.

And you did not explain the verses in post #323 that refutes your false thinking here.

You have no faith in the power of God to change the people he saved. if you did, you would not claim people have to of their own power work in order to change..

God can change people but they have to be willing to cooperate with God. God does not force people to be a certain way against their own free will. It’s why we are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). It’s why 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You don’t believe all future sin is paid for by a belief alone in Jesus as your Savior?
You said here that future sins is forgiven you. By default, this means that committing sin on occasion does not mean you lose your salvation.

You also appear to hold to Dan’s view of practicing sin being indicative of a believer who is genuine and truly born of God here. Dan even liked this post by you (because it obviously aligns with his belief).

Yet you contradict yourself by also stating:

“I think you may need to study what living in sin is. A non believers lives in sin, it is all they know. They can do no good.

Either way. I know I am right. Even the prodigal did not stop being a son. His father blood ran through him. You can’t take that away,

The blood of Jesus is in my veins, You can’t take that away. I have been born again by incorruptible seed.”

~ Quote by: Eternally Grateful.​

Source quote.

The prodigal son was living it up with prostitutes. So you are saying that you are still saved even if this were to happen?
What about that whole argument before about how true believers don’t practice sin?

Side Note:

How exactly is your Soteriology on the point of sin different than Dan’s viewpoint?
You both appear to believe the same thing on this point. You both believe you can sin and still be saved. Granted, you may or may not believe something additional that Dan may not believe in regards to Soteriology, but the point is that you both appear to agree on certain points (of which I pointed out is unbiblical and false). If you believe I have accused you or Dan falsely, then please feel free to say how I did that. If not, then that is just your own empty claim. If I did falsely accuse you about something you don’t believe, then I would be more than happy to apologize. But I am only going off what you and Dan have said so far.
https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/eternal-security.44049/page-33#post-1178048

Are you sinless?

If your not. Your a hypocrite. Because you too believe you can sin and still be saved.

Gods standard is perfection. anyone who does not meet that standard falls short.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am aware of Romans 11:6. But Paul is talking in context to Jews who need to be initially saved by God’s grace in Romans 9, Romans 10, and Romans 11. Paul is not referring to what happens after you are first initially saved by God’s grace. Being saved by God’s grace initially is without works otherwise it is no more grace. That’s the point he was making. Paul was also fighting against the heresy of what I call Circumcision Salvationism (Which is a false belief that said you have to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved - See Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, Acts 15:24, Galatians 5:2, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12).



Paul is not talking about works in general. Paul is referring to circumcision done for initial salvation.

1. Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”
   
   
2. Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”
   
   
3. Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
   
   
4. Galatians 6:15 (NLT) says, “It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.”

And you did not explain the verses in post #323 that refutes your false thinking here.



God can change people but they have to be willing to cooperate with God. God does not force people to be a certain way against their own free will. It’s why we are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). It’s why 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

romans was written to the GENTILE church in rome. Not jews so your in error when you say pual spoke to jews.

He stated a fact. the same thing he stated in Ephesiand 2 and titus 3. It is NOT by works..

cooperate with God?

the penalty of sin is death.

there is no cooperating with God. The cross is the answer. Not your self righteous works.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Eternally Grateful

Grace, peace, and love to you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

My apologies for my late reply.
I have been busy with a lot of things lately, and I wanted to give you a proper reply.

Anyways, to get down to the business at hand:

Are you sinless?

If your not. Your a hypocrite. Because you too believe you can sin and still be saved.

Well, it’s not about me. I am nothing (See: Galatians 6:3).
Christ is everything; Meaning, for me to live is Christ (Philippians 1:21).
My life is not the standard. Christ's life is the standard (1 John 2:6)
Hypothetically speaking: The whole world can be it’s way to hell, but it does not change what the Bible says.
The Holy Bible is the standard; And with God nothing is impossible.
So it's about, “What does the Bible say?”

I don’t believe the Bible teaches we can set out in having the mindset that we sin and still be saved.
I just don't get that impression when I read the New Testament.
There are many warnings given to us believers about how sin can destroy our souls, etcetera.
For example: One particular church in Revelation was in danger because the Lord did not find their works perfect before God.
Another church mentioned in Revelation was lukewarm and were ready to be spewed out of the mouth of our Lord.
They were to repent and do the first works. Revelation talks about how names can be blotted out, and it also ends by saying,

Revelation 22:14-15

“Blessed are they that do his commandments,
that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers,
and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”​

Believers must be in a cleansing process.

1 John 3:3

“And every man that hath this hope in him
purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”​

2 Corinthians 7:1

“...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness
of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness
in the fear of God.”​

Ephesians 5:25-27

“...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself
for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with
the washing of water by the word, That he might present it
to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle,
or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”​

Believers must be sowing to the Spirit (i.e. well doing) as a part of reaping life everlasting.
We will reap if we do not faint (grow tired in our endurance).

Galatians 6:8-9

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap
corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of
the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not
be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap,
if we faint not.”​

Believers must be putting to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit as a part of life (i.e. everlasting life).

Romans 8:13 (NIV)

“For if you live according to the flesh,
you will die; but if by the Spirit you put
to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”​

The intended outcome of this cleansing is the eventual ceasing from sin in this life.

Galatians 5:24

“And they that are Christ's have crucified
the flesh with the affections and lusts.”​

1 Peter 4:1-2

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh,
arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath
suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer
should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men,
but to the will of God.”​

For Peter mentions how there are false teachers who cannot cease from sin.

2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14-15

1 “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you,...
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;”​

Believers are in need of patience in that AFTER they have done the will of God...they might receive the promise.

Hebrews 10:36

“For ye have need of patience, that,
after ye have done the will of God,
ye might receive the promise.”​

Jesus warned us against how sin can destroy our souls in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, and Luke 9:62. Jesus said if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day (See: John 12:48).

​

Gods standard is perfection. anyone who does not meet that standard falls short.

While I believe that a person can die on their hospital bed accepting Jesus as their Savior and be saved by God's grace (Just as the thief on the cross was saved). Not all of us have that luxury. Many of us have to live out our faith. By living out our faith, we will go through many tests and trials of our faith and it takes time to purify ourselves and perfect certain areas of our life. As I mentioned before, believers have to eventually be perfect in their works according to God or they are not going to make it. We see that this is the case according to Revelation 3:2. For this church is said to have a name that says they are alive but in reality they are actually dead (i.e. dead spiritually - See: Revelation 3:1).

Many today are not even in the race or in fighting the good fight.
They don't even know they are in a race or a fight.
Many today think they can set out to sin and still be saved on some level.
Some Christians justify lots of sin (like the Hyper Grace crowd), and others justify smaller amounts of sin (like those who say they don't practice sin but yet they doublespeak and say they must sin again this side of Heaven as if they are a slave to their sin).

Isaiah 26:10 (NKJV) says:

“Let grace be shown to the wicked,
Yet he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly,
And will not behold the majesty of the LORD.”​

Jesus basically says in John 8:34-35 that the slave to sin will not abide in the house forever (i.e. the house of Christ - See also Matthew 13:41-42). These are bold words in God's holy Word and it's scary stuff. But I say all of this in love and with the hope that you will at least read these verses again over and over and over again in prayer. Let these verses live on the inside of you. If you believe them in what they plainly say, then it will change you.

Anyways, blessings be unto you in the Lord.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

romans was written to the GENTILE church in rome. Not jews so your in error when you say pual spoke to jews.

No. I am not saying that Paul wrote the letter of Romans to the Jews. That's silly. Most Christians who study the Bible know that the letter was addressed to the Gentile Christian church in Rome. My point is that while Paul was writing to the Roman believers, he was telling them about the spiritual state of the Israelite nation in Romans 9, Romans 10, and Romans 11. I was referring to these three chapters (not the whole book of Romans) was a discussion about Israel (as a part of Paul's letter to the Roman believers). You appear to not be aware of this fact (Based on your criticism here). But a simple reading of these three chapters makes this fact evident.

#1. “Israel” is mentioned 5 times in Romans 9 (and “Israelites” 1 time).

#2. Paul says in Romans 10:1,

“Brethren, my heart's desire and
prayer to God for Israel is, that
they might be saved.” (Romans 10:1).
......​

#3. “Israel” is also mentioned 5 times in Romans 11.​

So Paul is telling the Roman believers about the Israelite nation in Romans 9-11.

He stated a fact. the same thing he stated in Ephesiand 2 and titus 3. It is NOT by works..

Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:3-5, and Romans 11:6 are all dealing with how we are initially saved.
I believe Paul also said these things in light of the heresy of which I call “Circumcision Salvationism,” as well.
Again, this was the false belief that said you had to be circumcised first to be initially saved (Instead of first being saved by God's grace through faith without works) (See: Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, and Acts 15:24, and Galatians 5:2).

cooperate with God?

Yes, Luke 13:27 would be just one of many examples in Scripture.

the penalty of sin is death.

And... read the verse right before Romans 6:23.

It says this:

“But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness,
and the end everlasting life.” ~ (Romans 6:22).​

We become servants to God and we have our fruit unto holiness.... and the end... everlasting life.

there is no cooperating with God.

I have posted several verses that makes it clear that we must cooperate with God or we will not make into the Kingdom.

The cross is the answer. Not your self righteous works.

We do need God's grace to be forgiven of our past sins. But this takes more than the cross. We need to believe first in that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day (Which is a part of the gospel message mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
But the gospel also calls us to the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).
Grace gives us the ability to do the work (See: 1 Corinthians 15:10, Luke 7:36-48). God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful

Grace, peace, and love to you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

My apologies for my late reply.
I have been busy with a lot of things lately, and I wanted to give you a proper reply.

Anyways, to get down to the business at hand:



Well, it’s not about me. I am nothing (See: Galatians 6:3).
Christ is everything; Meaning, for me to live is Christ (Philippians 1:21).
My life is not the standard. Christ's life is the standard (1 John 2:6)
Hypothetically speaking: The whole world can be it’s way to hell, but it does not change what the Bible says.
The Holy Bible is the standard; And with God nothing is impossible.
So it's about, “What does the Bible say?”

I don’t believe the Bible teaches we can set out in having the mindset that we sin and still be saved.
I just don't get that impression when I read the New Testament.
There are many warnings given to us believers about how sin can destroy our souls, etcetera.
For example: One particular church in Revelation was in danger because the Lord did not find their works perfect before God.
Another church mentioned in Revelation was lukewarm and were ready to be spewed out of the mouth of our Lord.
They were to repent and do the first works. Revelation talks about how names can be blotted out, and it also ends by saying,

Revelation 22:14-15

“Blessed are they that do his commandments,
that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers,
and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”​

Believers must be in a cleansing process.

1 John 3:3

“And every man that hath this hope in him
purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”​

2 Corinthians 7:1

“...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness
of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness
in the fear of God.”​

Ephesians 5:25-27

“...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself
for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with
the washing of water by the word, That he might present it
to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle,
or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”​

Believers must be sowing to the Spirit (i.e. well doing) as a part of reaping life everlasting.
We will reap if we do not faint (grow tired in our endurance).

Galatians 6:8-9

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap
corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of
the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not
be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap,
if we faint not.”​

Believers must be putting to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit as a part of life (i.e. everlasting life).

Romans 8:13 (NIV)

“For if you live according to the flesh,
you will die; but if by the Spirit you put
to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”​

The intended outcome of this cleansing is the eventual ceasing from sin in this life.

Galatians 5:24

“And they that are Christ's have crucified
the flesh with the affections and lusts.”​

1 Peter 4:1-2

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh,
arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath
suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer
should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men,
but to the will of God.”​

For Peter mentions how there are false teachers who cannot cease from sin.

2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14-15

1 “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you,...
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;”​

Believers are in need of patience in that AFTER they have done the will of God...they might receive the promise.

Hebrews 10:36

“For ye have need of patience, that,
after ye have done the will of God,
ye might receive the promise.”​

Jesus warned us against how sin can destroy our souls in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, and Luke 9:62. Jesus said if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day (See: John 12:48).

​

While I believe that a person can die on their hospital bed accepting Jesus as their Savior and be saved by God's grace (Just as the thief on the cross was saved). Not all of us have that luxury. Many of us have to live out our faith. By living out our faith, we will go through many tests and trials of our faith and it takes time to purify ourselves and perfect certain areas of our life. As I mentioned before, believers have to eventually be perfect in their works according to God or they are not going to make it. We see that this is the case according to Revelation 3:2. For this church is said to have a name that says they are alive but in reality they are actually dead (i.e. dead spiritually - See: Revelation 3:1).

Many today are not even in the race or in fighting the good fight.
They don't even know they are in a race or a fight.
Many today think they can set out to sin and still be saved on some level.
Some Christians justify lots of sin (like the Hyper Grace crowd), and others justify smaller amounts of sin (like those who say they don't practice sin but yet they doublespeak and say they must sin again this side of Heaven as if they are a slave to their sin).

Isaiah 26:10 (NKJV) says:

“Let grace be shown to the wicked,
Yet he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly,
And will not behold the majesty of the LORD.”​

Jesus basically says in John 8:34-35 that the slave to sin will not abide in the house forever (i.e. the house of Christ - See also Matthew 13:41-42). These are bold words in God's holy Word and it's scary stuff. But I say all of this in love and with the hope that you will at least read these verses again over and over and over again in prayer. Let these verses live on the inside of you. If you believe them in what they plainly say, then it will change you.

Anyways, blessings be unto you in the Lord.

You have works on the brain. You may claim you understand the standard but you do not. The Bible says just 1 sin, 1 sin which we stumble into. Is enough to make us guilty of the law. And by that we are cursed by that very law. The law curses you where you stand, it curses all of us, and unless we are saved from that curse by the curse of Christ on the cross applied to us. We will suffer the fate we deserve, eternal death

We are justified freely. Positionally sanctified in Christ (for by one offering he has perfected forever). Our conditional sanctification however will take a lifetime, and we still will not meet Gods standard. Thats why our glorification is not by how much work we did, but by the redemption which is in Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. I am not saying that Paul wrote the letter of Romans to the Jews. That's silly. Most Christians who study the Bible know that the letter was addressed to the Gentile Christian church in Rome. My point is that while Paul was writing to the Roman believers, he was telling them about the spiritual state of the Israelite nation in Romans 9, Romans 10, and Romans 11. I was referring to these three chapters (not the whole book of Romans) was a discussion about Israel (as a part of Paul's letter to the Roman believers). You appear to not be aware of this fact (Based on your criticism here). But a simple reading of these three chapters makes this fact evident.

#1. “Israel” is mentioned 5 times in Romans 9 (and “Israelites” 1 time).

#2. Paul says in Romans 10:1,

“Brethren, my heart's desire and
prayer to God for Israel is, that
they might be saved.” (Romans 10:1).
......​

#3. “Israel” is also mentioned 5 times in Romans 11.​

So Paul is telling the Roman believers about the Israelite nation in Romans 9-11.



Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:3-5, and Romans 11:6 are all dealing with how we are initially saved.
I believe Paul also said these things in light of the heresy of which I call “Circumcision Salvationism,” as well.
Again, this was the false belief that said you had to be circumcised first to be initially saved (Instead of first being saved by God's grace through faith without works) (See: Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, and Acts 15:24, and Galatians 5:2).



Yes, Luke 13:27 would be just one of many examples in Scripture.



And... read the verse right before Romans 6:23.

It says this:

“But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness,
and the end everlasting life.” ~ (Romans 6:22).​

We become servants to God and we have our fruit unto holiness.... and the end... everlasting life.



I have posted several verses that makes it clear that we must cooperate with God or we will not make into the Kingdom.



We do need God's grace to be forgiven of our past sins. But this takes more than the cross. We need to believe first in that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day (Which is a part of the gospel message mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
But the gospel also calls us to the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).
Grace gives us the ability to do the work (See: 1 Corinthians 15:10, Luke 7:36-48). God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).

Once again, You have sanctification and justification mixed up

Our salvation is through justification. A legal term which means declaired innocent. It is not our righteousness, but Gods in us. Through the cross

Your trying to put us back under the law (works) and that is a different gospel.

You can;t mix grace and works, Grace is not for past sins. its for all sin. Because if grace is not applied to all sin. You will suffer the penalty for that sin. The penalty is death (spiritual)

If you die in that state, you will suffer the second death.

The cross is your only hope.. Anythign other than the cross is to be anathema as paul said,

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Eternally Grateful

Notice how you did not explain any of the verses that refutes your false belief here.
Instead, you just repeated your own man made statements that come from Protestant Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationists.
Seeing this is the case, this means you are not believing certain verses in the Bible. Until you do deal with the verses (I put forth to you), and put them on the inside of you instead of not believing them (at face value), there is no point in carrying on this discussion directly. You don’t believe all of the Bible. You believe only the parts of the Bible from your own slanted point of view.

Seeing this is the case, I will only address (As needed in being led by the Spirit) your wrong belief with the Bible from an indirect way (i.e. like speaking to an audience in general).

May God speak to your heart in time within His grace to the truths in Scripture you are ignoring.

Peace be unto you in the Lord.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful

Notice how you did not explain any of the verses that refutes your false belief here.
Instead, you just repeated your own man made statements that come from Protestant Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationists.
Seeing this is the case, this means you are not believing certain verses in the Bible. Until you do deal with the verses (I put forth to you), and put them on the inside of you instead of not believing them (at face value), there is no point in carrying on this discussion directly. You don’t believe all of the Bible. You believe only the parts of the Bible from your own slanted point of view.

Seeing this is the case, I will only address (As needed in being led by the Spirit) your wrong belief with the Bible from an indirect way (i.e. like speaking to an audience in general).

May God speak to your heart in time within His grace to the truths in Scripture you are ignoring.

Peace be unto you in the Lord.

you taking a hundred verses out of context to support your self righteous works based salvation does not in anyway. You think I am going to take my time to go through your long winded posts?

You talk about grace, but you reject grace. and you want to offer me grace?

There is no Grace in works.. Instead of going around trying to highlight verses you think support you. You would be better served to actually study the word and those verses in context.

Find out which of those verses are about our eternal life

and which of those verses are about our sanctification.

and remove yourself from the equation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Many (not all) in the Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation camp do not really explain the verses put forth to them that refutes their false belief. They make empty claims that we are taking the Bible out of context but they don’t really back up that claim with any solid biblical proof. Those few who do make an attempt at an explanation on the verses put forth to them are simply not supporting what the text plainly says and they try to speak against those verses (because those words in the Bible are not living on the inside of them). Think parable of the sower.

How am I correct?

The proof for any unbiased reader here is simply reading your own Bible and comparing it with their unbiblical statements or false claims. Don’t let Protestants, Catholics, or anyone tell you what the Bible says (that leads you to speak against the very Bible one claims to believe in).

Anyways, in short many do not want to be corrected by God’s Word. But it is written:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”

Many of in the Perpetual Belief Alone Camp don’t even this passage above here because they don’t believe the man of God can be perfect unto all good works (just like they don’t believe the warnings on how sin can destroy our soul in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, and Matthew 12:37, etc.

Isaiah 8:20 says:

“…if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To all:

Many (not all) in the Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation camp do not really explain the verses put forth to them that refutes their false belief. They make empty claims that we are taking the Bible out of context but they don’t really back up that claim with any solid biblical proof. Those few who do make an attempt at an explanation on the verses put forth to them are simply not supporting what the text plainly says and they try to speak against those verses (because those words in the Bible are not living on the inside of them). Think parable of the sower.

How am I correct?

The proof for any unbiased reader here is simply reading your own Bible and comparing it their unbiblical statements. Don’t let Protestants, Catholics, or anyone tell you what the Bible says (that leads you to speak against the very Bible they claim to believe).

Anyways, in short many do not want to be corrected by God’s Word. But it is written:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 says:
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”

Many of in the Perpetual Belief Alone Camp don’t even this passage above here because they don’t believe the man of God can be perfect unto all good works (just like they don’t believe the warnings on how sin can destroy our soul in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, and Matthew 12:37, etc.

Isaiah 8:20 says:

“…if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

for anyone willing, this poster just hurts himself over and over again

1. There is no such things as belief alone
2. mere belief in God will never save anyone. No one is saved because they believe they are a sinner, and jesus died on a cross and was raised.
3. People are saved because they have become poor in spirit. They have trusted (not just believed) God in the fact they are a sinner. They have trusted (not just believed) God when God said because of their sin they are cursed. They have trusted (not just believed) god when God tells them they have no hope. that they cannot save themselves. and no amount of work will bring about their salvation. they can try to climb the stairway to heaven with all their might, but they will fail. They are lost, in the middle of an ocean and will die unless they are saved,,and there is only one thing that will save them..They finally trust God when he says he came not to judge them, but to save them, that God sent his only son, who paid for their sin. that through that son, they may be saved. That if they humble themselves and become like the tax collector. they will be saved, and he will give them eternal life based on the hope of salvation, which he has peronally given them the seal of the spirit as a pledge
4. People who trust God with their eternity, WILL trust God in other areas of their lives. Eternity is the hardest thing to trust in. so smaller things like praying, studying, going to church, changing their sin habits, they will trust also. these are works.. so as you can see. no one will have faith in God for eternity without trusting him in other areas. for this FACT, no one who has true faith will be devoid of works

Sadly, mr highlighter here proves he does not have this type of faith in God. He is not working BECAUSE he is saved, because he trusts God for eternal life. He is working in order to gain eternal life. because he lacks faith in the work of God who promises to save him completely

so please. Do not buy into mr highlighters propoganda

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Some in the Perpetual Belief Alone Camp do not understand or accept words even in a dictionary (even if it sounds like it contradicts their belief).

According to dictionary.com, in one of its different definitions, it can be defined as trust.

See here:

Definition of belief | Dictionary.com

But the real problem is ignoring the warnings of how sin can destroy our souls by even the Lord Jesus Himself (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37). Jesus said that if we do not receive his words than those words will judge us on the last day (John 12:48). So Perpetual Belief Alone Proponents try to make other false arguments as a form of misdirection to lead one away from believing the words of Jesus Himself.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Well, it’s not about me. I am nothing

I am curious as to what your reply would be....are you without sin? Are you sinless?
Your response was a very large side-step to the question.
Ask me....am I sinless? No...it is impossible for me to be totally sinless. I go to bed angry with others...I get road rage...I get snarly with my words....I judge others at times....
Yes I sin....unintentionally...but I try my hardest not to.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To all:

Some in the Perpetual Belief Alone Camp do not understand or accept words even in a dictionary (even if it sounds like it contradicts their belief).

According to dictionary.com, in one of its different definitions, it can be defined as trust.

See here:

Definition of belief | Dictionary.com

But the real problem is ignoring the warnings of how sin can destroy our souls by even the Lord Jesus Himself (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37). Jesus said that if we do not receive his words than those words will judge us on the last day (John 12:48). So Perpetual Belief Alone Proponents try to make other false arguments as a form of misdirection to lead one away from believing the words of Jesus Himself.

Its obvious you did not read a thing I said. And you still accuse us of a false identity as belief alone. Then you try to insert the word trust. Which if you read my response you would have seen. We believe in FAITH (trust or assurance)