Does God kill off believers
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No, ATP. Jesus died for our sins, that is true...but being "covered in the blood" doesn't mean it's a great hiding place to keep on sinning...ATP said:
How is an adulterer going to be the "salt of the earth"?
How is a liar or a thief going to be the "light of the world"?
What do you think it means to "overcome"?
Why did Jesus tell give us instructions on things like how to treat our enemies, or how we should minister to those who are poor, hungry, without decent clothing, or who are sick or in prison?
What did He mean by telling us about the Two Great Commandments?
Why did He give us a "New Commandment"?
Why did His model prayer include a plea to His Father to "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil"?
Why did He warn us to fear Him Who could destroy both body and soul in hell?
And, ATP...why did He tell His Apostles to "Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"?
Didn't Jesus know what He was talking about?
I totally agree, but our sin nature doesn't effect our eternal security. Only Jesus was perfect Barrd.The Barrd said:
Okay, since you seem to have missed it the first time, I will repost:ATP said:
Jesus died for our sins, that is true...but being "covered in the blood" doesn't mean it's a great hiding place to keep on sinning...
How is an adulterer going to be the "salt of the earth"?
How is a liar or a thief going to be the "light of the world"?
What do you think it means to "overcome"?
Why did Jesus tell give us instructions on things like how to treat our enemies, or how we should minister to those who are poor, hungry, without decent clothing, or who are sick or in prison?
What did He mean by telling us about the Two Great Commandments?
Why did He give us a "New Commandment"?
Why did His model prayer include a plea to His Father to "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil"?
Why did He warn us to fear Him Who could destroy both body and soul in hell?
And, ATP...why did He tell His Apostles to "Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"?
Didn't Jesus know what He was talking about?
Since you know that He was perfect, why do you not listen to Him?
I believe what the Word of God says, he who believes hath eternal life. My salvation doesn't depend on religion.The Barrd said:
Your salvation depends on Jesus Christ.ATP said:
You'd think that you'd listen to Him.
Jesus, my dear man, IS the Word of God.
Correct, our salvation depends on Jesus Christ and not of my filthy works. Good, you're learning.The Barrd said:
That is my point... it is about your reward. What reward? Let's go to Phil. 3:10-11 and Paul willATP said:
explain 1st Cor. 3:13-15,
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and
the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
The resurrection from the dead is different from the general resurrection. This resurrection is only
for the Overcomers that applied themselves to knowing Him, and understanding the power of this
1st Resurrection. Rev. 20:5-6 says,
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand
years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Now... watch what John says after verse five,
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection;
over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of
God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Most Christians don't know or understand that there will be a second resurrection where everyone
will be raised, but for what ever reason, they aren't taught that there is a better resurrection, if a
person continues to grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. What does that mean?
It means you begin to allow God to change your way of thinking. All of us @ some point allow the
carnal mind to dominate our daily thinking, but as we grow in grace we recognize that it isn't very
pleasing to God, but the Holy Spirit convicts our thought process and eventually He changes the
bad habits we have acquired through our lives. God does these things and not us.
But if we choose to quench the Holy Spirit when it convicts us, we are giving up our birthright that
we will receive if we Overcome these infirmities. Suppose we don't Overcome these weaknesses?
Well, that's where 1st Cor. 3:15 comes in.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself
will be saved, yet so as through fire.
In other words, he didn't attain to the high calling of God, because he rejected the correction coming
from God by rejecting and quenching the Holy Spirit that was designed to change his ways and his
thinking. The loss that he suffers is being raised in the 1st Resurrection as a king and a priest that John
spoke about in Rev. 20. He will have to await the 2nd Resurrection before he can experience immortality
in the ages to come. In other words, he will give up a thousand years where he could have been used to
set up and grow the Kingdom of God like it has never been done before.
I guess Luke can explain it a lot better than I can. Luke 12:43-48 says,
43 Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
44 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
45 But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in
coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat
and drink and get drunk;
46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect
him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign
him a place with the unbelievers.
47 And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act
in accord with his will, will receive many lashes,
48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a
flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much,
much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will
ask all the more.
We are all bond slaves to Jesus Christ, because @ Calvary, Jesus paid a price that we couldn't pay. So in
a sense, we are to obey the master's command. If we begin to mistreat our fellow Christians and even our
enemies, God will reject us when he comes to set up his Kingdom on this earth by putting us to sleep for a
thousand years, and then we will be raised with the unbelievers @ the 2nd Resurrection.
I guess Paul said it best in Phil. 3:12-14,
12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but
I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by
Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one
thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies
ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ
Jesus.
I had a preacher tell me one time that Paul wasn't sure he was saved. I believed him until God revealed to me
the truth of the matter. Paul knew he was saved, but he also knew God was the one that will choose who will
be used in the restoration of all things. That was the high calling where God determines who it was that learned
to forgive, because He judges our hearts and knows all of our secrets.
We go through a lot of things in this life that keeps us from loving our enemies because of the things they have
done to us and our children, but God's answer is to forgive them. Jesus' last words before he gave up the ghost,
forgive them, for they know not what they do.
What a God! What a plan!
Logabe
Well, thank you ATP....but I have always known that Jesus is the Word.ATP said:
Therefore, i believe His teachings.
You may call that "religion" if you like...doesn't matter. You cannot give me eternal life.
No man....not one, no, not you or anyone else...comes to the Father but through the Son.
And no man...no, not even you...comes to the Son unless the Father draws him.
Therefore, since I am "learning" maybe you'll deign to teach me the answer to my original question:
Jesus died for our sins, that is true...but being "covered in the blood" doesn't mean it's a great hiding place to keep on sinning...
How is an adulterer going to be the "salt of the earth"?
How is a liar or a thief going to be the "light of the world"?
What do you think it means to "overcome"?
Why did Jesus tell give us instructions on things like how to treat our enemies, or how we should minister to those who are poor, hungry, without decent clothing, or who are sick or in prison?
What did He mean by telling us about the Two Great Commandments?
Why did He give us a "New Commandment"?
Why did His model prayer include a plea to His Father to "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil"?
Why did He warn us to fear Him Who could destroy both body and soul in hell?
And, ATP...why did He tell His Apostles to "Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"?
Didn't Jesus know what He was talking about?
Since you know that He was perfect, why do you not listen to Him?
OzSpen
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Let me explain how i read and understand this verse. In order to properly understand it its best to read the whole context in the chapter. It all comes down to what happens in the church/congregation. God's spirit was evidently present in their congregation, but serious sin went unpunished. The warning was to expel the wicked one from them else they could be in danger of losing God's spirit/approval.
Correct. We actually do not keep on sinning because the seed of God is in us forever, teaching us, disciplining us, sanctifying us. What a blessing....The Barrd said:
1 Pet 1:23 NIV For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
1 John 3:9 NIV No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:
1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.The Barrd said:
John 13:34-35 NIV “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”The Barrd said:
I agree with this...OzSpen said:
James 1:26-27 NIV Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
Notice it's making a distinction between the flesh and the spirit. The day of the Lord is referring to the first resurrection.......1 Cor 5:5 NIV hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.Dave24 said:
I'm glad you agree.
But there was quite a bit more:
All of these would involve what you have called "works salvation".
How sayest thou?
Didn't Jesus know what He was talking about?
Since you know that He was perfect, why do you not listen to Him?
Because the one who believes in Him obeys Him. The one who believes in Him has access to the whole armour of God.ATP said:
Overcoming involves us doing something, ATP.
Right, we put our trust in the finished work of the cross. What are we doing Barrd? Believing that Jesus is the Son of God. What did Jesus already accomplish for us?..........The Barrd said:
John 16:33 NIV "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."
If you are believing, you are also obeying. I don't think you understand that.ATP said:
If you are obeying, you will be working. I'm sure you don't understand that.
You still have not answered any of these questions:
How is an adulterer going to be the "salt of the earth"?
How is a liar or a thief going to be the "light of the world"?
What do you think it means to "overcome"?
Why did Jesus tell give us instructions on things like how to treat our enemies, or how we should minister to those who are poor, hungry, without decent clothing, or who are sick or in prison?
What did He mean by telling us about the Two Great Commandments?
Why did He give us a "New Commandment"?
Why did His model prayer include a plea to His Father to "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil"?
Why did He warn us to fear Him Who could destroy both body and soul in hell?
And, ATP...why did He tell His Apostles to "Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"?
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