Does God : Know everything?

[Eternally Grateful]

The gospel is summarized in 1 Cor. 15:1-6
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living,
though some have fallen asleep.

You would be hard pressed to find a Calvinist who didn't believe and spread this gospel.

Thats why I question.

the issue is they think they are saved BEFORE they believe this basic truth.. how does that affect their salvation?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why is that a problem?

so God is going to force the great tribulation on people??

That conception just doesn't exist during the time period the Bible was written. Seems like a modern attempt to science the Bible to me.

I think people understood it quote well.

 

[Wick Stick]

Any theologian worth their salt would disagree with that rebuttal.

Isa 42:9 Behold, the former things have come to pass, And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them."

Act 2:22-24 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— (23) Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; (24) whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.

Isa 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, (10) Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

Act 15:18 "Known to God from eternity are all His works.

You have interjected yourself here, which is great. But I think perhaps you're missing part of the discussion that's already happened because it was in a different post? Everyone agrees that God foretells the future from time to time. What is under debate is whether this is because He knows-in-advance or because He makes-it-happen.

These are different things. If I say "that chicken will die tomorrow" and then the next day I kill the chicken and cook him, that doesn't indicate that I know the future, it's more of a statement of what I intend to do. Likewise with God.

In your quoted verses above, I have changed the bold/red emphasis that you put on the verses. Hey, now they support the idea that it's because God makes things happen! But really... they always did.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Thats why I question.

the issue is they think they are saved BEFORE they believe this basic truth.. how does that affect their salvation?

Well predestination exists in God's mind, but doesn't play out in our lives _ in our time domain _ until that divine appointment. Mine happenned 1/1/91.
What do think think of the following passage?
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” Jer. 1:5
That's predestination and don't anyone try to tell me that was just for a prophet. God has a purpose for everyone on His perfect plan. His sovereignty has to function that way, otherwise man could disrupt his plan.
And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 8:38-39
So the question is, does God love everyone?
Just as it is written: “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Rom. 9:13
He hated Esau ... why, because he sold his birthright for a bowl of soup? He wasn't a mass murderer ... or maybe later on in life he was?
Romans 1 says God let's people go, releases them, to theor own demise and they are reprobate. That means they are already judged _ irredeemable. I'd say He hates them. Of course a judgment that gets billions thrown into a Lake of Fire to be destroyed is certainly not an act of love, it is hate.

 

[Wick Stick]

so God is going to force the great tribulation on people??

Within my beliefs, that's a past event rather than a future one. But the question still has validity - DID God force the tribulation on His people?

No. God warned His people to flee the country in advance of the tribulation and gave them specific signs to look for - which they did, and found, and the Christians did in fact evacuate the area such that they did not have to go through that.

I think people understood it quote well.

Then I think you are poor of history. But I would be happy to be proven wrong. Show me something - anything - written in that period of history that contains such an idea.

 

[Behold]

Well predestination exists in God's mind, but doesn't play out in our lives _ in our time domain _ until that divine appointment.

Predestined to Salvation is Calvin's or TULIP's theology.

Calvin - TULIP>... redefined "God foreknew" everything before it happens, as...>"God caused it all"

This is the core LIE upon which Calvin and TULIP make their stand against John 3:16, and the Cross of Christ and the Grace of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well predestination exists in God's mind, but doesn't play out in our lives _ in our time domain _ until that divine appointment. Mine happenned 1/1/91.
What do think think of the following passage?
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” Jer. 1:5
That's predestination and don't anyone try to tell me that was just for a prophet. God has a purpose for everyone on His perfect plan. His sovereignty has to function that way, otherwise man could disrupt his plan.
And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 8:38-39
So the question is, does God love everyone?

I am with you to here. But my point still stands about calvinism.

Just as it is written: “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Rom. 9:13 He hated Esau ... why, because he sold his birthright for a bowl of soup? He wasn't a mass murderer ... or maybe later on in life he was?

first. Paul was quoting Malichi 1: 2. He was literally talking about Israel and edom (The nations which were bore out of Jacob and Esau) even in verse 4. God calls him Edom, Not esau.

second, God tells us to love our parents,l our spouse and children, yet also tells us if we do nto hate them, we have no part with him
Luke 14:26

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

You will see a hebrew term Hate does not always mean hate, It means love less.. A way we would say it today is I love Jacob more than i love Esau, or I have a special place in my heart for Jacob, But esau I do not.

The fatalistic/Calvinistic view of romans 9 has some very serious issues..

Romans 1 says God let's people go, releases them, to theor own demise and they are reprobate. That means they are already judged _ irredeemable. I'd say He hates them. Of course a judgment that gets billions thrown into a Lake of Fire to be destroyed is certainly not an act of love, it is hate.

But John 3 said God loved them so much he died for them, and that if they repent and believe in Him he will save them.

This is where calvinism fails

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Within my beliefs, that's a past event rather than a future one. But the question still has validity - DID God force the tribulation on His people?

No. God warned His people to flee the country in advance of the tribulation and gave them specific signs to look for - which they did, and found, and the Christians did in fact evacuate the area such that they did not have to go through that.

well the tribulation will be on the world. not just in jerusalem. and will be so severe all flesh is in danger of being killed or wiped out causing God to return.

so it could not have been in the past.

Then I think you are poor of history. But I would be happy to be proven wrong. Show me something - anything - written in that period of history that contains such an idea.

show me anything that denys this idea..

I think stumpmaster did this quite well.

 

[Wick Stick]

show me anything that denys this idea..

Why would someone try to refute an idea that nobody had ever written about before?

My claim was that there is nothing in this period of history written that contains that idea at all.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why would someone try to refute an idea that nobody had ever written about before?

My claim was that there is nothing in this period of history written that contains that idea at all.

Your claim is futile if that is your argument..

Plus we have the written word that says otherwise.. God KNOWS the beginning from the end.. It does not say he FORCED it to happen.

God put road blocks in Jonah's way, He di dnot force Jonah to go to ninevah. Jonah could have remained in the fish and never went.

Jonah chose to go.. In this way God fulfilled his purpose. But God did not force it.

 

[Wick Stick]

Your claim is futile if that is your argument..

You're evading because you can't do it. You can't show where anyone in Biblical times articulated any idea similar to "God is outside of time," as you claimed.

Plus we have the written word that says otherwise.. God KNOWS the beginning from the end.. It does not say he FORCED it to happen.

Yes it does. Do you only read the bits of the verses that you like? The same verses that say God foreknew also say that God purposed those things to happen. Scroll up and read them, I think you cited a bunch yourself.

God put road blocks in Jonah's way, He di dnot force Jonah to go to ninevah. Jonah could have remained in the fish and never went.

Jonah chose to go.. In this way God fulfilled his purpose. But God did not force it.

What does this have to do with anything? Was this intended for someone else?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're evading because you can't do it. You can't show where anyone in Biblical times articulated any idea similar to "God is outside of time," as you claimed.


Yes it does. Do you only read the bits of the verses that you like? The same verses that say God foreknew also say that God purposed those things to happen. Scroll up and read them, I think you cited a bunch yourself.


What does this have to do with anything? Was this intended for someone else?

whatever dude.

Go on believing whatever you want.

You want a God that forces people to do evil things, You can have that God.

I reject that God..

 

[Wick Stick]

whatever dude.

Go on believing whatever you want.

You want a God that forces people to do evil things, You can have that God.

I reject that God..

I think you are confusing me with someone else here. I am firmly on the side of free will.

Our debate was over the idea of God being "outside of time" and how He interacts with the future.

It seems to me that, in your desire to refute the idea that God forces EVERYTHING to happen, you have taken things a bit too far, and have arrived at a point where you are denying that God can make ANYTHING happen.

Which... of course He can, and sometimes does.

 

[CadyandZoe]

If prophecy comes true because God forced it to come true. we have serious problems with God (If we do not we should)

God is outside of time, he knows the future because he has seen it as if it has already happened..

I don't think that is a tenable idea. If God knows the future by seeing it, then the future exists, and since the future exists, it is fixed and can't be changed. Otherwise, if we can change the future by our choices, then God can't know it empirically.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think you are confusing me with someone else here. I am firmly on the side of free will.

Our debate was over the idea of God being "outside of time" and how He interacts with the future.

It seems to me that, in your desire to refute the idea that God forces EVERYTHING to happen, you have taken things a bit too far, and have arrived at a point where you are denying that God can make ANYTHING happen.

Which... of course He can, and sometimes does.

lol

In your rebuttle. You removed free will from the equation.

Maybe you do not think thats what your doing, but you were.

If God is not outside of time, if he makes sure things happen as you say, we have no free will

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't think that is a tenable idea. If God knows the future by seeing it, then the future exists, and since the future exists, it is fixed and can't be changed. Otherwise, if we can change the future by our choices, then God can't know it empirically.

this is human thinking

God knows what will happen, because God knows what free will choices we will make.. and the end result of those free will choices..

 

[Ritajanice]

◄ Proverbs 16:9 ►

Audio Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps. New Living Translation We can make our plans, but the LORD determines our steps. English Standard Version The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps. Berean Standard Bible A man’s heart plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps. King James Bible A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. New King James Version A man’s heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps. New American Standard Bible The mind of a person plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Predestined to Salvation is Calvin's or TULIP's theology.

Calvin - TULIP>... redefined "God foreknew" everything before it happens, as...>"God caused it all"

This is the core LIE upon which Calvin and TULIP make their stand against John 3:16, and the Cross of Christ and the Grace of God.

I am not Calvinist, but predestination is a fact. You can misinterpret it to serve your hatred and contenpt - but it's there:
Rom. 8:29 -30
"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."
Eph. 1:5 & 11 "having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
... In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will"

 

[Stumpmaster]

You have interjected yourself here, which is great. But I think perhaps you're missing part of the discussion that's already happened because it was in a different post? Everyone agrees that God foretells the future from time to time. What is under debate is whether this is because He knows-in-advance or because He makes-it-happen.

These are different things. If I say "that chicken will die tomorrow" and then the next day I kill the chicken and cook him, that doesn't indicate that I know the future, it's more of a statement of what I intend to do. Likewise with God.

In your quoted verses above, I have changed the bold/red emphasis that you put on the verses. Hey, now they support the idea that it's because God makes things happen! But really... they always did.

All I can say to the above is Divine Foreknowledge comes before Divine Predetermination and Human Volition and Divine Intervention, and none of these excludes the other, like the 3 dimensions of space in the dimension of time. Because a plank has length that doesn't cancel out its width or depth. All these exist simultaneously, but they are not the same as each other. Likewise with the aforementioned factors of Foreknowledge, Predetermination, Volition, and Intervention.

The argument that God foreknows something because He has predetermined it is a fallacy of composition.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

THe born again are "not under the law, but under Grace".
So, that means that they exist in the KOG, and there is no Moses Law or 10 Commandments found there, as does GOD and CHRIST need them?
So, as the born again are "in Christ" having become 'ONE with God" by being born again SPIRITUALLY, then the born exist as this..

"As Jesus IS... so are the born again, in THIS World"...

So, is there sin in Jesus?
Is Jesus a sinner?
Does Jesus confess sin, today, and tomorrow?

So, if the born again are "IN Christ", and there is no SIN found there... then that means there is no sin found = born again.

So, this that im showing you, reader, has to become your understanding of what it means to be a : CHRISTian, or you will not be able to be free from the Law.
And when you are not free from the Law, in your HEAD, in your THINKING, then as the "law is the power of sin"..., the Law will keep you in the flesh, and keep you carnally minded... and that is why you think about "works of the flesh", and commit deeds that you then confess.
Do you want to stop being that broken faith, and failed discipleship?

Then = Just get your mind of faith right.....and that is simply to understand and then BELIEVE that God has made you "righteous", and you exit as "the righteousness of God, in Christ" = forever.

And when you believe this, then the LAW loses power over you, and you then begin to exist here...

"not under the Law, but under Grace".. as your REAL Faith.

And once that happens... once you get your faith right, then you have taken your very first step OUT of Hebrews 6:1, and into the Power of God's Grace, which is explained as Hebrews 13:9.

Hebrews 13:9 shows you what you must do with your HEART of FAITH.., so that you dont end up, as that verse explains.

I have an area that will not go away and I have not succeeded in conquering. Judging others.

I also find myself too often with the thought that maybe something will happen to someone and they will die or be removed from certain things. I catch myself knowing that it is not up to me... and is wrong thinking... but then it will trip me up next time.