1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Does Jesus Really Take Away The Sins Of The World?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by jiggyfly, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

    Messages:
    2,750
    Likes Received:
    85
    Do you have any scriptures to support that it's too late?
     
  2. Paul

    Paul Member

    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    20

    Look at the text, what is the CONTEXT!
     
  3. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

    Messages:
    2,750
    Likes Received:
    85
    I don't see anything about it being too late in the context. Can you elaborate?[​IMG]
     
  4. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    23

    He wanted to enjoy the pleasure of tormenting and torturing myriads of His creation, in suffering agony forever, because He likes it. He wanted to see someone, the Adversary become dominant over Him in soul-killing and contests, so that He could boast about how wonderful the Devil is. He wanted sin to permanently stain the cosmos for eternity so that we could all laugh and sing about how wonderful we Christians are above all other humans that ever lived and died.

    I speak as a fool.

    fivesense
     
  5. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    23

    You are a discerning man, James. I respect your gravity in the truth. But you add to it by stating, "for them that believe". It is not coupled with His death for the sins of the whole world.

    AV Mk 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe;

    AV Jn 1:12 power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

    AV Ro 3:22 righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:

    AV Ro 4:11 that he might be the father of all them that believe, t

    AV 1C 1:21 by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    AV Ga 3:22 that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    I could not find one reference that His sacrificial death on Calvary was not sufficient for all sins, or predicated upon any conditions.

    AV Hb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

    The saving of the soul, and any soul reference, has to do with earthly existence, and never qualifies for the heavenly realms. The Jew (Letter to the Hebrews) has an earthly privilege to see fulfilled in the flesh, at His coming to them again. Those who rejected Him will not inherit the promises in the Land. Their portion will be taken away and given to the one with ten talents.

    Do you see how adding "them that believe" is not in the Scriptures, and cannot be sustained without contradicting God?
     
  6. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    23

    Matthew 7:14 is not a statement about the Gospel of Grace and faith, it is about the Law. Few, indeed, ever found salvation through observing the Law and the Ten Commandments.

    It is only the Jews that are obligated to receive pardon of their sins, and like all pardons, revocation terminates that pardon, and the due punishment ensues. For the Jew, it will be cut off from the promises of the Covenant, and that is for a thousand years on earth.

    We, the elect Body of Christ, are justified gratuitously by grace and faith, no longer condemned to remain under the sting of death and hell's victory. We are beyond condemnation and death. We are new creations.

    1C 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive

    Now, what's so hard about believing this? Do not all die? Conversely, will not all be made alive in Christ. Please do not use subterfuge and state, "that means all who are in Christ", because there is no Manuscript that says that. They all say "all made alive in Christ".


    fivesense
     
  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

    Messages:
    2,750
    Likes Received:
    85


    Guess you are still searching for a substantiated answer eh Paul?
     
  8. Paul

    Paul Member

    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    20

    No, this is just one of several posts I haven't gotten back to yet.
     
  9. Paul

    Paul Member

    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    20


    Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

    This text in Romans is a quote from:

    Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

    In Isaiah, God is speaking to Israel not the nations. All of Israel will bow. The gainsayers will also bow but that is after the 7th trump and Christ is touching down. It is too late.

    Isa 45:16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
    Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
    Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
    Isa 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
    Isa 45:20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
    Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
    Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
    Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
    Isa 45:24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
    Isa 45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
     
  10. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

    Messages:
    2,750
    Likes Received:
    85
    So then you believe that only Israel will bow and confess?
     
  11. Paul

    Paul Member

    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    20
    No, Scripture does not say, "only Israel will bow and confess." Many, that are not of Israel all ready have accepted Christ.
     
  12. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

    Messages:
    2,750
    Likes Received:
    85
    So then who does "every knee bow and every tongue confess" apply to?
     
  13. Paul

    Paul Member

    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    20
    Read my post! Or read Isaiah 45. Who is being addressed in Isaiah 45:16-25?
     
  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

    Messages:
    2,750
    Likes Received:
    85
    This is what the LORD says: "The Egyptians, Ethiopians, [fn] and Sabeans will be subject to you. They will come to you with all their merchandise, and it will all be yours. They will follow you as prisoners in chains. They will fall to their knees in front of you and say, `God is with you, and he is the only God.' " Isaiah 45:14


    I believe you are in error here Paul every knee is clearly more than Israel. If it only applied to Israel why would Paul quote it to the Roman believers? Maybe you should take your own advise and read Isaiah 45.

    Because of this, God raised him up to the heights of heaven and gave him a name that is above every other name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11


    [font="'trebuchet ms"]With your line of reasoning every knee and every tongue here is only speaking of the Philippians. [/font]
     
  15. Paul

    Paul Member

    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    20
    You believe what you want, you'll find out someday soon. Remember their are two roads, most are on the wide one. Do you remember where it leads?
     
  16. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

    Messages:
    2,750
    Likes Received:
    85
    Yeah Paul we will all find out one day and we will all be surprised including yourself. I will say I am surprised that you can read Hebrew and Greek and still have the paradigm you do concerning God's plan of reconciliation. Go back and read Isaiah 45 again Paul and remember CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT! and then tell me that every knee and every tongue is referring to Israel only. [​IMG]
     
  17. Paul

    Paul Member

    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    20
    Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


    If all people are to be saved why is the road that leads to distruction so wide? But it's your choice. Choose YOUR path.
     
  18. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

    Messages:
    2,750
    Likes Received:
    85
    So because I disagree with you and I believe that Christ is victorious and accomplishes what Father sent Him to do, you think I am not on the narrow path? LOL, Paul I'm beginning to see your paradigm and it's quite predictable.

    As you said earlier Paul, context context context. Who is Jesus addressing? Destruction of what? What kind of life? What do the verses you quoted say in the Greek?[​IMG]







    [font="'trebuchet ms"]
    [/font]
     
  19. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

    Messages:
    1,498
    Likes Received:
    19
    jiggyfly, I hope I am wrong but you seem to be saying that all men will be saved. That is what "Universalist" teach. Are you of that theology?

    I seem to remember that Paul said, only those of faith are the children of Abraham.

    May I cut in? It is true that every knee will bow to Jesus but that does not mean they are all going to be saved. Many will bow to God's judgement as they are sent to Hell.
     
  20. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

    Messages:
    2,750
    Likes Received:
    85
    Yes indeed, I believe in the restitution, reconciliation and redemption of all things because I believe Jesus is victorious and accomplishes what the Father sent Him to do.[​IMG]
     
    Miss Hepburn likes this.
Loading...