Does John 1:1 say Jesus is God

[Peterlag]

Jesus prayed to God “not my will, but yours, be done” because Jesus and God have separate wills (Luke 22:42; John 5:30). They would have one will if Jesus and the Father are the same “one God.” Trinitarian doctrine claims that Luke is referring to the human will of Jesus, and not his divine will, but that is problematic because the Bible never says anything like that or even hints that Jesus had two wills in conflict with each other inside him allowing one to be human and the other to be divine.

The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time. Jesus can be called the “image” of God because he always did the will of God, and because he was the image of God is why he could say you had seen the Father if you had seen him.

Ephesians 4:4-6 says there is one God and one Lord and one spirit. This verse teaches exactly what the Jews expected based on the Old Testament and what Jesus, Peter, Paul, and others taught: that there was one God, one Lord, and one spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 8:6 says “for us there is one God, the Father… and one Lord, Jesus Christ.” This simple and straightforward language elucidates that the Father is God and the Son is “Lord” making a clear differentiation between the two.

Jesus said: “…the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). In contrast, the orthodox formula of the Trinity says the Father and the Son are “co-equal.” God is greater than Christ, just as Christ is greater than we are. 1 Corinthians 3:23 says “And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.” When the Bible says “you are Christ’s” it's saying “you belong to Christ” and many English versions say exactly that (i.e., CJB; HCSB; NASB; NET; NJB; NLT). So the verse is saying “and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God” (NASB). It seems apparent that Jesus cannot be God and belong to God at the same time.

 

[theefaith]

Jesus is a the word and the word is God! Yes Jesus is God!

God is savior! Jesus is savior! Jesus is God!

the Lord (God) is shepherd! Psalm 23 Jesus is the good shepherd Jn 10 so Jesus is Lord! (God)

btw my last name in German means shepherd! German shepherd!

 

[theefaith]

Oh ya lest i forget!

Jesus is God!
Mary is his mother!
Mary is the mother of God!

Jesus is king!

In the line of David the mother of the king is queen!

All glory to God, the source of all truth, goodness, and beauty!

 

[Wrangler]

The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God”

This alone deserves its own thread. Bravo!

 

[Matthias]

Jesus is a the word and the word is God! Yes Jesus is God!

God is savior! Jesus is savior! Jesus is God!

the Lord (God) is shepherd! Psalm 23 Jesus is the good shepherd Jn 10 so Jesus is Lord! (God)

btw my last name in German means shepherd! German shepherd!

Woof!

 

[Matthias]

Oh ya lest i forget!

Jesus is God!
Mary is his mother!
Mary is the mother of God!

Jesus is king!

In the line of David the mother of the king is queen!

All glory to God, the source of all truth, goodness, and beauty!

* The forgotten Trinity *

 

[Peterlag]

The Old Testament referred to the Messiah as the servant of God, and we see this in Isaiah 52-53, which speaks of the suffering and death of the Messiah when referring to the Messiah as God’s “servant.” They called King David God’s “servant” when the disciples prayed to God in Acts 4:25 and later in that same prayer they called Jesus “your holy servant” (Acts 4:30) CSB; ESV; NAB; NASB; NET; NIV; NJB). They equated the Messiah as a servant of God just like David was rather than referring to Jesus as if he was God himself. There are many verses indicating that the power and authority Jesus had was given to him by the Father. Jesus Christ would have always had those things that the Scripture says he was “given” if he was the eternal God. Christ was:

• Given “all authority” Matthew 28:18).
• Given “a name above every name” (Philippians 2:9).
• Given work to finish by the Father (John 5:36).
• Given those who believed in him by the Father (John 6:39, 10:29).
• Given glory (John 17:22, 24).
• Given his “cup” [his torture and death] by the Father (John 18:11).
• “Seated” at God’s own right hand (Ephesians 1:20-21).
• “Appointed” over the Church (Ephesians 1:22).

These verses and others like them make no sense if Christ is “co-equal” with the Father because taken at face value they show Jesus is a man approved of God.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us
(Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot
be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner
of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is
why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time.

It's not all that difficult to trace Jesus' origin to David, and from thence to
Adam, and from thence to dust.

Jesus became an heir of David by means of Mary's direct participation in his
conception. Simultaneously, Jesus became an heir of God by means of direct
participation in his conception. (Luke 1:31-35) In this way, Jesus became
God's next of kin, i.e. His heir apparent.

FAQ: If Jesus descends from the creative process that took place in Gen
1:26-27 & Gen 2:7, then why does traditional Christianity insist he's God?

REPLY: Most of the Christians with whom I've dialogued in the past several
decades insist Jesus is intrinsically God. But their position is untenable. Jesus
is first and foremost intrinsically a man. Well; God is not a material being;
He's a spirit being. (John 4:24)

I'm pretty sure that were I to inquire; most JWs would readily concur that
the highest name that can be named is Jehovah. Well; it turns out that God
has rewarded Jesus' exceptional service to God and Man by bestowing upon
His son the right to be identified as "the name". (Phil 2:7-11) God has also
bestowed upon His son all power associated with the name. (Matt 28:18 &
Rev 1:8)

Jesus' unprecedented promotion was predicted in the Old Testament.

• Isa 52:13 . . Look! My servant will act with insight. He will be in high
station and will certainly be elevated and exalted very much.

• Dan 7:13-14 . . I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see
there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened
to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they
brought him up close even before that One. And to him there were given
rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and
languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting
rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be
brought to ruin.

• Hag 2:23 . . In that day-- is the utterance of Jehovah of armies --I shall
take you, O Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, my servant-- is the utterance of
Jehovah --and I shall certainly set you as a seal ring, because you are the
one whom I have chosen-- is the utterance of Jehovah of armies.

* Jesus is Zerubbabel's descendant (Matt 1:12-13 & Luke 3:27) Seal rings
(a.k.a. signets) were equivalent to legal identification. (cf. Gen 41:42-44 &
Gen 44:18)
_

 

[theefaith]

This alone deserves its own thread. Bravo!

care to explain the transfiguration?

Matthew 17
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. ...

 

[theefaith]

Unitarian is another gospel of the Jews,

The Jews also reject Christ so we are not going to believe their Unitarian doctrine!

Matt 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Matt 23:39
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[theefaith]

Woof!

Matthew 17
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. ...
Care to explain?

 

[theefaith]

Woof!

Unitarian is another gospel of the Jews,

The Jews also reject Christ so we are not going to believe their Unitarian doctrine!

Matt 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Matt 23:39
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

do you also wear a hat and beard and funny side burns with a prayer shawl or is that just for the Orthodox Jews?

 

[Matthias]

Unitarian is another gospel of the Jews,

The Jews also reject Christ so we are not going to believe their Unitarian doctrine!

Matt 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Matt 23:39
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

do you also wear a hat and beard and funny side burns with a prayer shawl or is that just for the Orthodox Jews?

Jesus is a Jew, and you don’t believe his unitarian doctrine.

 

[Matthias]

Matthew 17
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. ...
Care to explain?

Three Jews in a vision.

 

[Matthias]

Unitarian is another gospel of the Jews,

The Jews also reject Christ so we are not going to believe their Unitarian doctrine!

Matt 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Matt 23:39
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Not all Jews reject Christ. They share his unitarian doctrine.

 

[RLT63]

Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son. The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."

If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it is clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

Why don't you start another forum? You can call it JesusisnotGod.com or Trinitydeniers.org.

 

[RLT63]

This is factually incorrect. God is the creator. His children are the created.

Jesus’ essence includes a resurrected body. God’s essence includes a spirit.

This is where JWs disagree with you.

 

[theefaith]

Jesus is a Jew, and you don’t believe his unitarian doctrine.

no his trinity doctrine Matt 28:19

the divinity of Christ and the trinity are “Christian” doctrines not “Jew doc”

 

[theefaith]

Not all Jews reject Christ. They share his unitarian doctrine.

the nation rejected Christ! And killed Him! So we want their doctrines? Uhm No!

 

[Matthias]

no his trinity doctrine Matt 28:19

the divinity of Christ and the trinity are “Christian” doctrines not “Jew doc”

Jesus doesn’t have a Trinity doctrine. His God is only one person, the Father.

Your anti-Jew attitude is preventing you from seeing Jesus the Jew.