Does Satan run the world? Or does God?
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All your doing is trying to ruin what I bring to the table by harassing me, constantly, with belittling remarks and tidbits to make sure other people on here see that I am made out to be crazy.
You’re doing a good job at it. Buts it’s not by the spirit of Christ, it’s by your fleshly desires to continue to control your narrative of me for people to see.
I welcome you to continue you to do so, @Jack. May God be with you.
You’re doing a good job at it. Buts it’s not by the spirit of Christ, it’s by your fleshly desires to continue to control your narrative of me for people to see.
I welcome you to continue you to do so, @Jack. May God be with you.
Stop playing the victim. You constantly attack our Bible just like Satan and you don't like when I point it out. Are there any Scriptures from the Christian Bible that you believe are the written Words of God?
Oh I have plenty of proof Matt. Want me to quote some of your antiChrist comments? You're ATTACKING Christians and playing the victim.
Is it the one where I said Yeshua became God by sitting on his Fathers throne in reunion becoming the Lord God Almighty? That was something revealed to him by his Father,
Revelation 3:21
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.
Revelation 3:21
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.
Gladly!
You referring to Hell: "Thats right @Jack that pertains to the devil, the false prophet and the beast. Not humans."
"I believe Jesus already came back"
"I never denied hell exisitng @Behold. Jesus went to hell."
Referring to Jesus: "I do not believe he is coming back"
Absolute blasphemy: "Yeshua BECAME the Lord God Almighty"
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
You decide. I just have to say this as it has been on my mind longer then I want.
You believe Jesus and rightfully so. HE SAID
As posted above...
Mathew 24:29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
When did this happen and who saw it?
We do indeed have significant differences among various traditions spread out all over the planet. However, the one fundamental shared concept seems to be quite similar, that the world is a spiritual battle zone, which is why it looks that way. From Indonesia to the Hottentots of South Africa, the Nahuatl of Mexico, the Apaches, Chiricahua, and Papagoes of the American Southwest, along with Northeatern Nigeria, and the Vedic Poets of early Hinduism just to name a few. And everywhere in between we find people all over the globe in every culture speaking and writing about some type of spiritual battle going on.
Why does it have to be God in control of everything when the whole world from every culture since the beginning of man has spoken about gods, angels, demons, and Satan? Even the Buddha speak about the realm of angry spirits. This the invisible society of spirits do seem to be behind much that occurs in the physical world. We are often told that people suffer because they deserve it. And we seem to be able to go into great explanations expressing a confidence in God's absolute sovereignty, defined here as control, that seems to provide many believers with a great deal of security. We teach in our churches that everything is under God's control, and thereby everything is proceeding as divinely planned, and that somehow it all fits together.
This concept did not attain the status of a universal explanation for evil until years after a man was born on the planet who was called Augustine. It's indeed historically true that what has constituted the most frequent explanation in the church and in western culture for why people suffer is due to the fact that a man was born on the planet called Augustine. And so this concept of God being in control of both good and evil is why we often consider a secret "divine blueprint" behind everything that is both good and evil being somehow an extension of God's good (but very mysterious) will. This is the biggest reason why we have trouble accepting the truth concerning the good and evil of the world we experience. A murder is more real to us than devils because the churches do not teach that the world we live in is involved in a state of war that is spiritual.
Why does it have to be God in control of everything when the whole world from every culture since the beginning of man has spoken about gods, angels, demons, and Satan? Even the Buddha speak about the realm of angry spirits. This the invisible society of spirits do seem to be behind much that occurs in the physical world. We are often told that people suffer because they deserve it. And we seem to be able to go into great explanations expressing a confidence in God's absolute sovereignty, defined here as control, that seems to provide many believers with a great deal of security. We teach in our churches that everything is under God's control, and thereby everything is proceeding as divinely planned, and that somehow it all fits together.
This concept did not attain the status of a universal explanation for evil until years after a man was born on the planet who was called Augustine. It's indeed historically true that what has constituted the most frequent explanation in the church and in western culture for why people suffer is due to the fact that a man was born on the planet called Augustine. And so this concept of God being in control of both good and evil is why we often consider a secret "divine blueprint" behind everything that is both good and evil being somehow an extension of God's good (but very mysterious) will. This is the biggest reason why we have trouble accepting the truth concerning the good and evil of the world we experience. A murder is more real to us than devils because the churches do not teach that the world we live in is involved in a state of war that is spiritual.
Its been documented in history, have you ever went to seek for it had ever happened or not?
Josephus, is a writer who documented history as Roman and the Jews went to war. Perhaps one could start there, you also have some other historical writers, from Cassio Dio, Suetonius, and Tacitus.
My broad terms is just seeing if God owns the world or not basically. It seems that human beings are including myself can cause good or evil to ourselves. It seems that when God is ready to take my life he will take me from this place to the next place.
”and said, “When I was born into this world, I was naked and had nothing. When I die and leave this world, I will be naked and have nothing. Yahavah gives, and Yahavah takes away. Praise the name of the Lord!”“
Job 1:21 ERV
Concerning spiritual warfare,
”To end my letter I tell you, be strong in the Lord and in his great power. Wear the full armor of God. Wear God’s armor so that you can fight against the devil’s clever tricks. Our fight is not against people on earth. We are fighting against the rulers and authorities and the powers of this world’s darkness. We are fighting against the spiritual powers of evil in the heavenly places. That is why you need to get God’s full armor. Then on the day of evil, you will be able to stand strong. And when you have finished the whole fight, you will still be standing.“
Ephesians 6:10-13 ERV
It seems that we wrestle against the powers of the world’s darkness, fighting against spiritual powers of evil? In high places. What does that mean? To stand against the evil of others who may seek to murder a life and perhaps, or even fight ourselves from not going to take a life like Cain did with his brother, it doesn’t say we wrestle around with Satan here…
@Rella ~ I am a woman
After the Tribulation of those Days
Here is the whole text of Matt. 24:29-31; notice when the gathering would occur:
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not giver her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a grout sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
The tribulation here is not talking about the tribulation that would overtake the Christians in the persecution under Nero or the Jews in the war with Rome. Rather, the tribulation here is talking about the intermediate troubles that would precede Christ's return and the events of the end-time. All sorts of famines, wars, and troubles led up to the fall of Jerusalem and the Roman civil wars that marked the coming of Christ. Jesus thus told the disciples
"And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows" (Matt. 24:6-8).
When Jesus says "immediately after the tribulation of those days" it is to these events, preceding his return and the fall of Jerusalem, that he refers. We see this in Revelation where there were intermediate judgments in the form of seals and trumpets that preceded the final cataclysm that saw the destruction of Christ's enemies. It should also be borne in mind that Jesus' coming was not a one day or even one year event: Jesus' return stretched over the whole period of the Jewish war with Rome(AD 66-70), and the Roman civil wars that broke out at the death of Nero (AD 68-70). When a kingdom comes in power, it comes in force to make war and assert its right and dominion. This obviously entails a sufficient time to subdue the enemy. The same is true here: the day of the Lord and coming of Christ was fulfilled in the world events culminating in the Roman civil wars and destruction of Jerusalem. His coming would avenge the saints, who were gathered home in martyrdom where they received the crown of life.
Conclusion
The gathering of Matt. 24:29-31 refers to the end-time harvest of the saints, when they were gathered home to Christ in death under the Nero and the Jews.
www.preteristcentral.com
After the Tribulation of those Days
Here is the whole text of Matt. 24:29-31; notice when the gathering would occur:
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not giver her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a grout sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
The tribulation here is not talking about the tribulation that would overtake the Christians in the persecution under Nero or the Jews in the war with Rome. Rather, the tribulation here is talking about the intermediate troubles that would precede Christ's return and the events of the end-time. All sorts of famines, wars, and troubles led up to the fall of Jerusalem and the Roman civil wars that marked the coming of Christ. Jesus thus told the disciples
"And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows" (Matt. 24:6-8).
When Jesus says "immediately after the tribulation of those days" it is to these events, preceding his return and the fall of Jerusalem, that he refers. We see this in Revelation where there were intermediate judgments in the form of seals and trumpets that preceded the final cataclysm that saw the destruction of Christ's enemies. It should also be borne in mind that Jesus' coming was not a one day or even one year event: Jesus' return stretched over the whole period of the Jewish war with Rome(AD 66-70), and the Roman civil wars that broke out at the death of Nero (AD 68-70). When a kingdom comes in power, it comes in force to make war and assert its right and dominion. This obviously entails a sufficient time to subdue the enemy. The same is true here: the day of the Lord and coming of Christ was fulfilled in the world events culminating in the Roman civil wars and destruction of Jerusalem. His coming would avenge the saints, who were gathered home in martyrdom where they received the crown of life.
Conclusion
The gathering of Matt. 24:29-31 refers to the end-time harvest of the saints, when they were gathered home to Christ in death under the Nero and the Jews.
What is the "Gathering" of Matt. 24:29-31?
Preterism is the belief that all Bible prophecy has been fulfilled.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
First. I asked you when "
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not giver her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
had happened.
I asked you nothing about "the gathering" because you have argued that it all has been completed.... You have argued that Revelation proves it.... !
Will you please provide links as I do for your proof.
I want to see it in writing that "the sun WAS darkened, and the moon DID not giver her light...
I HAVE yet again just now and there is nothing.......
Josephus in recounting the end times actually says most all of the Olivet discourse predicitons of Jesus but
look at this...
The 7 Signs Of Josephus Reveal End Times Destruction
Our only first-hand account of the Roman assault on the Temple comes from the Jewish historian Josephus Flavius who was a former leader of the Jewish
www.patheos.com
Our only first-hand account of the Roman assault on the Temple comes from the Jewish historian Josephus Flavius who was a former leader of the Jewish Revolt who had surrendered to the Romans and had won favor from Vespasian. In gratitude, Josephus took on Vespasian’s family name – Flavius – as his own.
As an eyewitness to the destruction of Jerusalem, Josephus gives us a startling window into a series of seven signs which God sent to the people of Jerusalem prior to their ultimate destruction in AD 70.
(Of his 7 signs)
3) A COW GIVES BIRTH TO A LAMB
“At that same feast [just after the 2nd sign, the great light over the altar] a cow that had been brought by someone for sacrifice gave birth [just before it was to be killed] to a lamb in the midst in the court of the Temple.” (Isn't it odd this never made it into Revelation?... nor mentioned by anyone else?
5) ARMIES IN THE SKY
“Again, not many days after that festival on the twenty-first of Artemisium [the Jewish month of Iyyar which is in the late springtime], there appeared a miraculous phenomenon, passing belief. Indeed, what I am about to relate would, I imagine, have been deemed a fable, were it not for the narratives of eyewitnesses and for the subsequent calamities which deserved to be so signalized [so “sign-ized,” a great sign]. For before sunset …” “For before sunset throughout all parts of the country [of Judea] chariots were seen in the air and armed battalions hurtling through the clouds and encompassing the cities.”
6) VOICES SPEAKING
“Moreover, at the feast which is called Pentecost the priests [all 24 of them] on entering the inner court of the Temple by night as their custom was in the discharge of their ministrations, reported that they were conscious, first of a commotion and a din [a great noise], and after that of a voice as of a host [an army], ‘We are departing hence [from here].”
Is it interesting that on the day of Pentecost exactly 33 years from the time that the Gospel started in Jerusalem — to the very day — this announcement and sign occurred.
I have looked ever since the Olivet discourse was overly debated among Christians, especially the Preterists I have had dialogue over the years and they all say IT HAPPENED... but have no supporting evidence.
It certainly did not happen in the Bible... and you do put your full faith in the Bible dont you/?
NOW you also use Revelation to support your views.....
Another Historian is quoted in What happened to the apostle John after the Biblical account of his life ends?
"With Eusebius (Church History III.13.1) and others we are obliged to place the Apostle's banishment to Patmos in the reign of the Emperor Domitian (81-96). "
This is well after 70AD
But: and the entire article is quite a read. Josephus comments on John's Apocalypse REMEMBER WHEN DOMITIAN WAS EMPEROR.... AD 81-96 long after the temple destruction and 70AD.
Josephus' Anticipation of a Domitianic Persecution
Page 11 of 11
Josephus presents a situation into which the Apocalypse of John readily fits. Owing to the stimulus given to emperor-worship by Domitian,
John of Patmos entertained a lively anticipation of trouble for Christians on account of their anta-
gonism toward the worship of any earthly potentate.
But the author of the New Testament Apocalypse cannot claim for his faith those precedents of toleration and those historical displays of providential protection by means of which Josephus hopes
to avert impending danger to Judaism.
Consequently Josephus is less desperate than the Christian seer, yet he clearly betrays
a similar anticipation of increasing hostility on the part of the authorities under Domitian.
AND THIS IS WHY THE HISTORIAN JOSEPHUS PROVES REVELATION HAD TO HAVE BEEN WRITTEN AFTER.
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