Does Satan run the world? Or does God?

[3 Resurrections]

Let's take a look
7For the Son of Man is about to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
28Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will absolutely not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

No reference to second coming. There's eisegesis, rearing its ugly head again!

The coming return of Christ was mentioned by Paul to Timothy in 2 Timothy 4:1 (YLT). "I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is ABOUT TO judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign."

James 5:7-9 also said that Christ's coming had drawn near in those "last days" (James 5:3), and the judge was at that time already standing by the door. That coming of Christ was when each person was repaid according to what they had done, as Christ had already predicted for that generation.

Plain speech by Christ and the scriptures, announcing a coming bodily return for that first century generation.

 

[Wrangler]

Plain speech by Christ and the scriptures, announcing a coming bodily return for that first century generation.

Well, obviously you are doubling down on what is not the case. Just out of curiosity, how does this affect how you life out a life devoted to Christ?

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

? ? ? ?

The Preterist View of Christ's Second Coming

Sorry, I had forgotten to attach the link. I corrected it there and here for you to see.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

The coming return of Christ was mentioned by Paul to Timothy in 2 Timothy 4:1 (YLT). "I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is ABOUT TO judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign."

James 5:7-9 also said that Christ's coming had drawn near in those "last days" (James 5:3), and the judge was at that time already standing by the door. That coming of Christ was when each person was repaid according to what they had done, as Christ had already predicted for that generation.

Plain speech by Christ and the scriptures, announcing a coming bodily return for that first century generation.

Before I read more... Question.... Since Christ Jesus had those living then believing it was imminent... was Jesus' return for Israel.... The messianics... or all of God's children?

Since it was a temple that was permitted to be destroyed I wonder?

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

The coming return of Christ was mentioned by Paul to Timothy in 2 Timothy 4:1 (YLT). "I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is ABOUT TO judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign."

James 5:7-9 also said that Christ's coming had drawn near in those "last days" (James 5:3), and the judge was at that time already standing by the door. That coming of Christ was when each person was repaid according to what they had done, as Christ had already predicted for that generation.

Plain speech by Christ and the scriptures, announcing a coming bodily return for that first century generation.

And where can I read about the witnesses of them that Jesus called up?

 

[MatthewG]

Before I read more... Question.... Since Christ Jesus had those living then believing it was imminent... was Jesus' return for Israel.... The messianics... or all of God's children?

Since it was a temple that was permitted to be destroyed I wonder?

Jesus was to gather the bride, which was believers in that day which were not swayed by the ways of the world. They were very holy living people, and overall, in my belief, the 144,000 thousand of the tribes of Israel were deemed to be saved to be gathered, during or after the great tribulation.

If a person takes time to read from Matthew, all the way to Revelation. You are going to go across so many references of the audiences which are being written to are not be deceived, and continue to watch and wait.

Will everyone experience a second coming like then, where only the believers has seen the Lord come in and through the clouds; changing in the twinkling of an eye, as everything around them burned down to the ground? I do not believe so.

Edit*
In a Spiritual sense; rising with Christ, the darkness within starts to burn away. A person becomes changed in the twinkle of the eye, through the heart, and everything they give God creates a new world in Christ which is newness of life in the Spirit.

Is there a caveat? Sure, everyone is going to end up meeting the Lord Yeshua, and that will be at our own death, whenever that may be…

 

[3 Resurrections]

Before I read more... Question.... Since Christ Jesus had those living then believing it was imminent... was Jesus' return for Israel.... The messianics... or all of God's children?

Since it was a temple that was permitted to be destroyed I wonder?

Christ's bodily return in AD 70 was to gather and bring all the bodily-resurrected saints back with Him to heaven. Everyone who had died up until then who was a child of God was included in that rapture, from Creation forward until AD 70. Some of them had already been resurrected, and had been waiting on earth for Christ's return (such as the 144,000 First-fruits Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints, Lazarus, Dorcas, the widow's son, Enoch, those raised to life by Christ and the disciples, etc.) All of these were considered part of the "Israel of God", which Paul wrote about.

And where can I read about the witnesses of them that Jesus called up?

You and I have gone over this point before. The witnesses of Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives - the "every eye" of those who pierced Him - were present in the besieged city of Jerusalem in AD 70. Most died in the city after that, or else they were taken prisoner by the Romans and sent into slavery or to Roman arenas to be killed later. Some were sent to the triumph procession in Rome. Prisoners and dead men aren't really known for their ability to create documents recording what they saw. When you insist that you have to have a written record after the fact before you can believe it, this shows a distrust of Christ's words telling us what He was going to do before that first-century generation had passed away.

It also presumes that such a record was never made, when archaeology is an ongoing process that may yet discover such documentation.

It also presumes that the resurrected bodies being gathered together with Christ in the skies were supposed to be like some slow-motion video which was visible for a great length of time before they all had disappeared from view. If the bodies of the righteous dead were to be changed to the incorruptible state "in the twinkling of an eye", just how long do you think it would take for a resurrected person to be raptured to heaven? After all, even today, a believer who dies has his soul instantly present with the Lord in heaven: "Absent from the body, and present with the Lord". Why not the same rapid transit for the resurrected bodies of the saints back in AD 70?

Well, obviously you are doubling down on what is not the case. Just out of curiosity, how does this affect how you life out a life devoted to Christ?

To deny the clear words of Christ and the scriptures regarding His imminent return in that first-century generation isn't wise. The effect on my life of believing Christ's clear statements of His bodily return in AD 70 on that 1,335th day is an absolute reassurance that what God and Christ promise, they most certainly bring to fulfillment. I can have utter confidence in a God that has kept His word to the letter, and in the time promised.

All those disasters being finished which were imminent for that first-century generation gives me a rest from my former fearful expectation that these were going to be taking place in the future for us. It shows me that I no longer need worry about the present existence of Satan or the demonic realm in this world. Demon possession no longer exists since AD 70, since God promised that He would cause all the unclean spirits to "pass out of the land", and that He would crush Satan under the feet of the Roman believers in their lifetime. We no longer wrestle with the spiritual wickedness in high places, as those in the first century were doing during the Devil's "short time" before his destruction.

Humanity has enough to contend with concerning the wicked nature of fallen mankind, and also whatever evil lurks within our own hearts. The Great Commission task is still ours, but it comes with God's promise that Christ's "stone" kingdom will continue to grow into a great mountain which will fill the whole world. Our part as believers is to share in spreading that progress of Christ's kingdom, until the next third bodily-resurrection event in the distant future.

 

[Wrangler]

To deny the clear words of Christ and the scriptures regarding His imminent return in that first-century generation

Triple down. You are not very intellectually nimble are you?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Triple down. You are not very intellectually nimble are you?

My intelligence or lack thereof is not the focal point. It is the texts themselves which were very plain to those who were reading or hearing them in the first century. John's commission in Revelation was to show unto God's servants in his own generation the things which were shortly to come to pass. Those predicted events were said to be "at hand", which meant they were presently in place in the days to whom those prophecies were first given. That is how God defines what an "at hand" prophecy is. Ezekiel 12:21-28 shows how God defines when an "at hand" prophecy comes to pass, and they are not "prolonged" into "times that are far off", but are fulfilled "in your days" to whom those prophecies are first given.

 

[MatthewG]

We no longer wrestle with the spiritual wickedness in high places, - @3 Resurrections.

While I personally agree with concerning the Adversary, know by the title - Satan, and his demons too, were in my opinion done away with the Victory of Christ as well.

However, this comment, reminds me of the same scripture you mention though, I do believe that darkness, and wickedness which can be affecting the soul of a person, could be speaking of not only darkness, and wickedness, but spiritual wickedness in high places, this is nothing to concern dealing or even pertaining to Satan in the first place, (in my opinion), because it is the darkness, and wickedness which comes from the spirits of the world if you ask me - "Spirit of hatred, Spirit of greed, Spirit of Jealousy" the Darkness has always existed in the beginning too with Yahavah, and though no darkness, nor a shifting shadow is made with him, he dwelled in darkness, and spoke the word which then light come forth to existing, and Yahavah, separated the Light from the Darkness. If you have any questions please feel free to ask, I believe what James speaks about how we fall into our own lusts when temptation arises if we decide to go that route rather than what Yahavah would prefer us to do, which is pleasing in his sight, doing good works which he produces in believers who abide in the vine.

There are also gods and idols, continued to be believed on and looked to. We have our own soul which can puff itself up in self-righteousness, self-justifications, by our own decisions desire to go as far as to hurt other people which is an expression of the heart and the state that is currently in by and through the expressions of the soul, all of it is the absence of light, the Rebellious, free willed, Adversary desired the darkness, rather the light,. God, even let the Adversary to dwell among the other angels, and forespoken of gods were all around in the opening chapters of Job. Showing forth, what God allowed, and what Satan had no problem in taking away from him, except (his wife - haha old joke.) However, even so, Job remained faithful, and unmoved to the notions of his friends, and remained in faith and received a well reward being restored of all that had been lost, with days full of life.

Which in turn, of course the story of Job, - without satan in the picture - still had to wrestle around with something during this time, losing his whole family, live stock, covered in boils, scraping them off perhaps? Only to remain faith, and be restored in the end.

(This is all individuals journey to afford their own self towards Yahavah, willingly, and those who do so end up remaining faithful through-out their days, and we are promised a new housing when leaving this world, which one builds on the foundation of the Lord Jesus Christ, and spiritually learn from the other apostles whom governed over the first-century church, until the return of Christ. When death comes here in this life, Yahavah will reward you for the works you allowed him to do through you, by the Spirit of Christ. It's always the Lord Yeshua whom makes us right in Gods sight, praise be to him)

Perhaps we may differ in some areas, thank you for taking time to read.

 

[JBO]

The Preterist View of Christ's Second Coming

Sorry, I had forgotten to attach the link. I corrected it there and here for you to see.

Thank you.

 

[MatthewG]

The dominant version of preterism says that everything—EVERYTHING—associated with the second coming of Jesus happened in A.D. 70, in connection with the destruction of Jerusalem as an act of judgment on OT Israel. This includes the antichrist, the man of sin, the second coming of Jesus, the rapture, the resurrection, and the judgment day. Everything predicted in Matt. 24 and in the book of Revelation (which is dated c. A.D. 65) was fulfilled at that time (says preterism).

The only way to affirm this, of course, is to say that many of the prophecies were fulfilled not literally or visibly but spiritually. Jesus’ return was not visible (Noe, “Top Ten Misconceptions About Jesus’ Second Coming,” 29-43). Curtis says that when Christ came (in A.D. 70), “he literally, yet spiritually, gathered those that were alive to be caught up in the kingdom with Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ spiritually returned with the believers to the earth, to ever be with them. (The Preterist View of Christ's Second Coming)



If this is the case I’m not a believer of preterism; though I believe that Jesus came back as promised he was indeed seen by faithful believers who were patiently waiting, watching and looking for him to return and they had seen him, visibly…

I don’t believe in “spiritually” returned personally.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

The dominant version of preterism says that everything—EVERYTHING—associated with the second coming of Jesus happened in A.D. 70, in connection with the destruction of Jerusalem as an act of judgment on OT Israel. This includes the antichrist, the man of sin, the second coming of Jesus, the rapture, the resurrection, and the judgment day. Everything predicted in Matt. 24 and in the book of Revelation (which is dated c. A.D. 65) was fulfilled at that time (says preterism).

The only way to affirm this, of course, is to say that many of the prophecies were fulfilled not literally or visibly but spiritually. Jesus’ return was not visible (Noe, “Top Ten Misconceptions About Jesus’ Second Coming,” 29-43). Curtis says that when Christ came (in A.D. 70), “he literally, yet spiritually, gathered those that were alive to be caught up in the kingdom with Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ spiritually returned with the believers to the earth, to ever be with them. (The Preterist View of Christ's Second Coming)



If this is the case I’m not a believer of preterism; though I believe that Jesus came back as promised he was indeed seen by faithful believers who were patiently waiting, watching and looking for him to return and they had seen him, visibly…

I don’t believe in “spiritually” returned personally.

Please Mathew,

Show me in the bible where anyone wrote that Jesus had come and saw anyone being gather?

We know and were told about those coming out of their graves

Mathew 27:52-53 KJV

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

There were witnesses....

vs 54 KJV

Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

So that begs the question if Jesus came back in 70AD either physically, visually or spritually and took with him
people who either were alive yet, or the remainder from the graves.....

Why the secrecy that this monumental event was not witnessed by anyone.

Was this to be in secret.....? If so... why and who for?

There is not one verse in the bible... and especially not in 1 Hohn, 2 John or 3 John that seems to be a consensus that were written after 70AD that describes this.

If you want to go to Rev you need to ask yourself if Rev was the handbook for 70AD, and it happened.... why no witnesses?

I am more likely to believe that Jesus may have come back for the Messianics of that day, only.

Only Josephus (except John) was alive at that time

Of interest and you might want to read this link. Did Josephus reveal Christ returned in A.D. 70? — Preterism

Which points out...Finally, preterism believes “this generation” in Matthew 24:34 refers to the people who were alive during the time of Jesus. But their conclusion cannot be supported by Luke 17:22-24 where Jesus told the disciples that they would not see His coming — “the days of the Son of Man.” For more information visit,

Not all was fulfilled either... but that's for another time

 

[3 Resurrections]

I do believe that darkness, and wickedness which can be affecting the soul of a person, could be speaking of not only darkness, and wickedness, but spiritual wickedness in high places, this is nothing to concern dealing or even pertaining to Satan in the first place, (in my opinion), because it is the darkness, and wickedness which comes from the spirits of the world if you ask me - "Spirit of hatred, Spirit of greed, Spirit of Jealousy"

MatthewG, the "spiritual wickedness in high places" is an indication that scripture was speaking of God's celestial angelic order of created beings. "The host of the high ones that are on high" in Isaiah 24:21 was speaking of the evil celestial angels which had fallen who were going to be punished by being gathered together and imprisoned like prisoners in a pit in the city of Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12:26-27 mentioned the timing of when the heavens would be shaken so that whatever could be shaken would be "removed" from existence. It was "NOW" for the Hebrews readers that this promise of the earth and the heavens being shaken was given and would take place. The Devil as "the prince of the power of the air" was part of those powers of the heavens that were about to be shaken - and removed from existence.

We today no longer have to wrestle with those "rulers of the darkness of this world" in Ephesians 6:12. God destroyed all that Satanic realm of demons, unclean spirits, and the Devil back in AD 70. All those wicked celestial powers were "removed" back then, as promised. God gathered them all together and confined them in the city of Jerusalem / Mystery Babylon where He disposed of them, so that they would exist no more, as promised.

What we do contend with today are what were once called the human "children of the Devil" - the "sons of disobedience" - as well as whatever wicked impulses lurk within our own hearts. This is plenty to keep us busy.

 

[MatthewG]

Please Mathew,

Show me in the bible where anyone wrote that Jesus had come and saw anyone being gather?

Rella, you know there is no set in stone quote from anyone that has ever said, “Jesus returned,” there was no more believers around at that time to claim, such. They were all taken, the 144,000, and some gentiles went along as well that made up the bride in that day and age. And you know that I have stated multiple times: it’s by faith I believe Jesus to have been able to do what he had done and he rescued those people who suffered under the death from not only Rome but also their own Jewish brethern, the times go so bad with famines and those promises came to be fulfilled in Revelation to me personally (with no feelings against anyone who differs) there is something about trusting in faith that really helps me continue keep going and that is all thanks to our Father and the Lord Jesus. Bless you.

 

[MatthewG]

MatthewG, the "spiritual wickedness in high places" is an indication that scripture was speaking of God's celestial angelic order of created beings. "The host of the high ones that are on high" in Isaiah 24:21 was speaking of the evil celestial angels which had fallen who were going to be punished by being gathered together and imprisoned like prisoners in a pit in the city of Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12:26-27 mentioned the timing of when the heavens would be shaken so that whatever could be shaken would be "removed" from existence. It was "NOW" for the Hebrews readers that this promise of the earth and the heavens being shaken was given and would take place. The Devil as "the prince of the power of the air" was part of those powers of the heavens that were about to be shaken - and removed from existence.

We today no longer have to wrestle with those "rulers of the darkness of this world" in Ephesians 6:12. God destroyed all that Satanic realm of demons, unclean spirits, and the Devil back in AD 70. All those wicked celestial powers were "removed" back then, as promised. God gathered them all together and confined them in the city of Jerusalem / Mystery Babylon where He disposed of them, so that they would exist no more, as promised.

What we do contend with today are what were once called the "children of the Devil" - the "sons of disobedience" - as well as whatever wicked impulses lurk within our own hearts. This is plenty to keep us busy.

I don’t know. Isn’t there spiritual wickedness continued to exist outside of the gates of the heavenly Jerusalem? It does seem we differ in that regard. I don’t believe in demons or anything for today’s modern age. I do believe that spiritual darkness and wickedness that comes from that Dark that exists outside the Gates still try to penetrate godly men and women to give in to what it offers instead of the living God.

Yes I know Satan is done away with. But Darkness continues to exist, and it exist within all humans, and all are naturally selfish, considering they are given the world, and still can continue to be ungrateful for anything about life in general, even if they may do “good” things. All are in need of becoming spiritually alive rather than sitting in that spiritually dead (dark, decay, rot) space. It’s about being made new in Christ and walking in faith by the spirit into the light.

Thanks again!

 

[3 Resurrections]

There is not one verse in the bible... and especially not in 1 Hohn, 2 John or 3 John that seems to be a consensus that were written after 70AD that describes this.

Rella, the consensus is wrong on a post-AD70 writing of the Johannine epistles. The beloved disciple (Lazarus / John Eleazar) wrote them all, and he said in 1 John 2:17-18 that "The world is passing away, and the lust thereof...Little children, IT IS THE LAST HOUR: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby WE KNOW THAT IT IS THE LAST HOUR."

One would have to explain just what that "LAST HOUR" was speaking about if these Johannine epistles were written later on after the Jewish / Roman war in AD 66-70. There was nothing in the period of the 90's that was comparable to the devastation on the nation of Judea and its people in the AD 66-70 period; nothing that could be considered the equivalent of a "LAST HOUR".

So that begs the question if Jesus came back in 70AD either physically, visually or spritually and took with him
people who either were alive yet, or the remainder from the graves.....

Why the secrecy that this monumental event was not witnessed by anyone.

You and I have also gone over this point before. It wasn't "secrecy", but the fact that the believers had been warned to flee from Judea and Jerusalem when those "days of vengeance" began with Jerusalem surrounded by armies (Luke 21:20-22). The believers obeyed Christ's directive, and in AD 66 when the Roman and Zealot armies surrounded Jerusalem, they fled to Pella and other distant locations to wait out the war. Therefore, the believers were not in the immediate vicinity of Jerusalem to visually witness Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives where He promised to return. Only those in the immediate vicinity, or those trapped in the besieged city of Jerusalem - "them that pierced Him" - were eye-witnesses of this return of Christ, as prophesied. And these were shortly thereafter dead by starvation, disease, or the sword, or the Romans took them prisoner by the close of AD 70.

Remember, we are also given the time of day when Christ would bodily return to the Mount of Olives for the resurrected saints. In Zechariah 14:6-7, the prophet predicted that this "one day known to the Lord" would be "at evening time", when it was neither day and night. At dusk, with the setting sun going down, Christ was going to return. This was not conducive conditions for the most accurate view of the returning Christ, anyway.

.Finally, preterism believes “this generation” in Matthew 24:34 refers to the people who were alive during the time of Jesus. But their conclusion cannot be supported by Luke 17:22-24 where Jesus told the disciples that they would not see His coming — “the days of the Son of Man.”

The reason why the disciples would long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but would not see them, was due to their martyrdom before AD 70. Christ had predicted that they would be persecuted from city to city, and that they would be put to death for His name's sake, being "hated by all men" - both Jews and Gentiles. Yet "not a hair of their heads would perish", because they would be bodily resurrected and meet the Lord together in the air at that time, as Paul predicted for the resurrected saints in 1 Thess. 4.

Paul himself longed "by any means" to be killed in time to arrive at the resurrection of the dead at that coming AD 70 return of Christ, so that he could know the power of Christ's resurrection (Philippians 3:10-12).

 

[3 Resurrections]

Yes I know Satan is done away with. But Darkness continues to exist, and it exist within all humans,

I totally agree with this. The wickedness of humanity actually exceeds that which the Devil and the demonic realm used to exercise, since we sin against God's grace extended to the human race. God never took up the cause of the celestial angels by extending redemption to those who had fallen into disobedience. But in Christ who was made made like unto us by His incarnation, redemption was brought to humankind. To offend against such grace given to us as the human species is a total affront to our merciful God - worse than any fallen angel's sin.

 

[MatthewG]

I totally agree with this. The wickedness of humanity actually exceeds that which the Devil and the demonic realm used to exercise, since we sin against God's grace extended to the human race. God never took up the cause of the celestial angels by extending redemption to those who had fallen into disobedience. But in Christ who was made made like unto us by His incarnation, redemption was brought to humankind. To offend against such grace given to us as the human species is a total affront to our merciful God - worse than any fallen angel's sin.

Something that sometimes comes by in my own mind is Adam blaming God, for the wife he gave him, and Even blaming the snake, for her own choice. No one ever tends to take any responsibility for themselves in the exact same way, thanks to the disconnection that was extracted from the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, that resides with in all, and people can do "good" things and still have evil intentions. Thank God for sending his Son, to have paid for all offenses even blasphemy of the Lord Yeshua, however what was is not forgiven was to deny God, and appoint something else as your god, or idol, for Gods chosen nation, it has became LAW that was worshipped over Yahavah himself, denying him, his spirit, and his son.

 

[Taken]

Does Satan run the world? Or does God?

God is in Control…
Everything happens as God Allows…

God is Converting “some” Believers.
Satan is Directing the non-Believers.

The “undecided” are Wavering and Uncommitted.

Glory to God,
Taken