Does the Bible identify "Babylon"?

[ewq1938]

...and whatever you posit as the mark of the beast, is that something from the bible?

Yes, because I stick to what is written. Now back to yours, it is not from the bible is it?

 

[Davy]

Babylon is forming in the world right now before your very eyes, is as religious as you could possibly imagine, and you can't see it. Explains why the whole world, including every denomination and nation, and yes, even some in my own, will be deceived by her lies and receive the beast's mark.
In order to understand, you would do better to start at the beginning, slowly, with no unbiblical assumptions and presumptions, and rely on God's word, for the Bible explains and interprets itself.

Nope, that is not the Babylon Harlot. You're listening to some uneducated preacher coming up with his own ideas and not staying in God's Word.

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
KJV

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

 

[quietthinker]

Yes, because I stick to what is written. Now back to yours, it is not from the bible is it?

Nice dodge. You're making the statement so I'm asking the question.....and you want to turn it so it appears I need to answer you. What sort of a mark is that?

 

[ewq1938]

Nice dodge. You're making the statement so I'm asking the question.....and you want to turn it so it appears I need to answer you. What sort of a mark is that?

You are dodging not me. Once you address the issue, then I will address yours despite that I already have already. Your view that the MOB is not scriptural but come from your denomination. You will claim it's implied which is nothing more than eisegesis. Never once is the MOB said to be related to worshiping on a Sunday.

 

[quietthinker]

You are dodging not me. Once you address the issue, then I will address yours despite that I already have already. Your view that the MOB is not scriptural but come from your denomination. You will claim it's implied which is nothing more than eisegesis. Never once is the MOB said to be related to worshiping on a Sunday.

I haven't claimed anything. Maybe we can start there and dispense with your assumptions!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nope, that is not the Babylon Harlot. You're listening to some uneducated preacher coming up with his own ideas and not staying in God's Word.

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
KJV

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

He certainly shouldn't listen to you. Babylon is a spiritual entity (the spiritual opposite of the heavenly New Jerusalem), not a literal earthly city as you imagine. Where was our Lord crucified? In Jerusalem? No.

Hebrews 13:12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

John 19:20 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek.

 

[Brakelite]

Babylon is forming in the world right now before your very eyes, is as religious as you could possibly imagine, and you can't see it. Explains why the whole world, including every denomination and nation, and yes, even some in my own, will be deceived by her lies and receive the beast's mark.
In order to understand, you would do better to start at the beginning, slowly, with no unbiblical assumptions and presumptions, and rely on God's word, for the Bible explains and interprets itself.

I have good reason to offer the above advice... Your eschatology is as confusing as Babylon itself. Like others here, you are using disparate verses from here and there and made to force fit a preconceived theory. You mock, as others do, SDA eschatology, yet you fail to grasp the very first principles we teach. Your objections to our teachings are as empty as the Jesuit futurist theories you propagate.

LOL, what?

Those words suddenly mean nothing considering the fact that you believe the mark of the beast is Sunday worship which everyone knows isn't something from the bible at all!

Take your own advice and focus on real possibilities for what the mark will be.

It's curious that you are so confident about your understanding of what the mark of the beast is, yet do not know who the beast is. That's why you need to start at the beginning.
You don't even have that correct about "Sunday worship". There are several factors involved, not the very least of which is the trampling of the Sabbath, the real 4th commandment, and not the counterfeit. Another factor is state legislation on behalf of Sunday 'sacredness' at the behest of the church. Hence why there is no mark of the beast yet. If you cannot see the realities of those factors being played out in real life throughout the world of politics and religion right now, you are are looking in all the wrong places to see the signs of the times.
Revelation reveals a contrast between those who receive the mark, and those who receive the seal of God. Both are in the forehead, and one can be received in the hand. One cannot have one in the forehead and leave room for the other. In the forehead is the conscience. Whatever the mark is, it is in opposition to the seal of God, which is a spiritual concept accepted and received by faith. It is conscientiously believed and impacts the life, both spiritually and physically. Read about the 144000, not a literal number, and not literal Jews, but an unknown vast eklessia and are otherwise known as spiritual Israel, in contrast to spiritual Babylon.
Another contrast is that those who receive the seal of God also keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. Those in Babylon don't. They reject the law of God and have their own laws, keeping and teaching the commandments of man as doctrine. Those false doctrines are in the woman's cup, and are what makes the world drunk. They become blind and oblivious to spiritual realities and readily deceived because they have no love for the truth.
PS. A. The scripture says nothing about those who keep the Commandments of God as observing only 9 of them.
B. All laws contain or have added to them the seal of the Lawmaker. Most seals have 3 components to them... The name of the Lawmaker... The title that belongs to him... And the kingdom he presides over. Now remove the 4th commandment from the tables of stone, and show us from what remains who the lawgiver is. Where is the seal?
If you've followed me this far, then you may draw some conclusions, but as I said, first you need to discover who the first beast of Revelation 13 is, and realize it is the second beast who enforces the mark. So you also need to discover who that beast represents.
Stop relying on Jesuit teachings which hide the identity of the Antichrist. The world has been captivated and deceived by them through futurism. Do some research and find out why the reformers were all on the same page when it came to identifying Antichrist... It is the one thing they actually agreed on.

 

[Brakelite]

One more point. The Antichrist itself boasts as to what it's mark of ecclesiastical authority is.
"Sunday is the central doctrine of the Catholic Church from which all her other doctrines emanate". This is from the Catechism... Not however a verbatim quote.
Can you see how the buy and sell issue is an incentive to comply with Sunday observance once it is legislated, and not the mark itself? The final incentive is the death decree against Sabbath keepers... Those who keep the Commandments... Those who refuse to honor the Sunday law as demanded and required by the state powers.

 

[ewq1938]

You don't even have that correct about "Sunday worship". There are several factors involved, not the very least of which is the trampling of the Sabbath, the real 4th commandment, and not the counterfeit. Another factor is state legislation on behalf of Sunday 'sacredness' at the behest of the church. Hence why there is no mark of the beast yet. If you cannot see the realities of those factors being played out in real life throughout the world of politics and religion right now, you are are looking in all the wrong places to see the signs of the times.

And none of that comes from the bible. It's pure SDA fiction. I figured out decades ago that all denominations have their own particular false doctrines. What you believe in is no more real than the Pretribbers or the Universalists etc etc.

 

[ewq1938]

One more point. The Antichrist itself boasts as to what it's mark of ecclesiastical authority is.
"Sunday is the central doctrine of the Catholic Church from which all her other doctrines emanate". This is from the Catechism... Not however a verbatim quote.
Can you see how the buy and sell issue is an incentive to comply with Sunday observance once it is legislated, and not the mark itself? The final incentive is the death decree against Sabbath keepers... Those who keep the Commandments... Those who refuse to honor the Sunday law as demanded and required by the state powers.

Most of that is not biblical, being mixed in with what the bible does say. Falsehoods added to truth is EXTREMELY potent to their believers and they cannot see that a doctrine was created in such a fashion. It's a re-writing of part of Rev 13. There is NOTHING about "Sunday law" or anything against Sabbath keepers/Saturday worship anywhere in the bible (or Revelation).

 

[Brakelite]

Most of that is not biblical, being mixed in with what the bible does say. Falsehoods added to truth is EXTREMELY potent to their believers and they cannot see that a doctrine was created in such a fashion. It's a re-writing of part of Rev 13. There is NOTHING about "Sunday law" or anything against Sabbath keepers/Saturday worship anywhere in the bible (or Revelation).

You still don't know or recognize the real Antichrist, how can you know what his/her/it's mark is?

 

[Brakelite]

NOTHING or anything against Sabbath keepers/Saturday worship anywhere in the bible (or Revelation).

KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

You still don't know or recognize the real Antichrist, how can you know what his/her/it's mark is?

You are still deflecting away from the fact that your definition of the MOB is not from the bible.

 

[ewq1938]

KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

All true Christians "keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ". I keep the Sabbath, just the NT one not the OT one.

This is not SDA specific nor targets Saturday worship specifically.

And of course this doesn't have anything to do with the MOB having anything to do with Sunday worship.

 

[Brakelite]

You are still deflecting away from the fact that your definition of the MOB is not from the bible.

No deflection. Find out who the beast is then ask the beast. It's that simple. But you aren't willing to go that far. Why are you hiding the Antichrist from plain view?

 

[Brakelite]

I keep the Sabbath, just the NT one not the OT

Of course you do. And on whose authority do you stand on that changes God's explicit commandment to something else? You demand biblical evidence for definition of the MOB, where is your biblical authority for Sunday?

 

[Brakelite]

All true Christians "keep the commandments of God,

Maybe 9 of them. No comment on post 167?

 

[ewq1938]

Maybe 9 of them.

Christians keep all of them, including the Sabbath. We keep the NT Sabbath not the OT one.

No comment on post 167?

No, you tried to change the subject away from the non-biblical MOB taught by the SDA.

 

[ewq1938]

Of course you do. And on whose authority do you stand on that changes God's explicit commandment to something else? You demand biblical evidence for definition of the MOB,

More like an admission that the SDA definition does not come from scripture since it doesn't.

where is your biblical authority for Sunday?

The NT Sabbath is not restricted to a day of the week.

 

[Brakelite]

The NT Sabbath is not restricted to a day of the week.

On who's authority?