Does the day of Christ resurrection tell us to worship on Sunday?

[mjrhealth]

Would you let this go if you believed that the Church is in big trouble because the majority do not keep the Sabbath according to the law?

I too have a ministry, not to the world, but to the errors in the Church regarding willful sin.

Got nothing to do with the sabbath, when one comes to Christ, we find our rest in Him, He becomes our life and our life is only found in Him, we worship Him every day, because that is not a work, it is an act of Love to the one who loves us. The church is in trouble because it threw out God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Got nothing to do with the sabbath, when one comes to Christ, we find our rest in Him, He becomes our life and our life is only found in Him, we worship Him every day, because that is not a work, it is an act of Love to the one who loves us. The church is in trouble because it threw out God.

But to them it has everything to do with the Sabbath, and I respect their zeal. I used to be a SDA growing up and praise God for that upbringing. I never lost my fear of the Lord, and consciousness of the fact that sin separates us from God. They know if you break one, you break them all. I left the SDA denomination when I learned about grace. However, it was a warped kind of grace that I've since then straightened out the error that I was first taught. That was only for one year. After that I found the ministry of the Spirit, and that's where I've remained and grown. The biggest error in the church is the warped grace I was taught. It is that where Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you." SDAs combine the ministry of the Spirit with the Ten Commandments, the ministry of death. But it is no big deal to God according to Romans 14.

 

[mjrhealth]

But it is no big deal to God according to Romans 14.

It is when you stand before God and than need to figure out which you will be judged by, faith or works.

As far as the SDA bit, that was becoming apparent in your words. Its easy to get religion into you, it is flaming hard to get it out.

I should mention, that when preaches lies to Gods children it becomes a real issue

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Failed to mention Saul too was very zealous. and what did he get.

Act_9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

it is the harlot church that is and will persecute His church, for that is the way it has always being.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It is when you stand before God and than need to figure out which you will be judged by, faith or works.

As far as the SDA bit, that was becoming apparent in your words. Its easy to get religion into you, it is flaming hard to get it out.

I should mention, that when preaches lies to Gods children it becomes a real issue

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Failed to mention Saul too was very zealous. and what did he get.

Act_9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

it is the harlot church that is and will persecute His church, for that is the way it has always being.

James said, I'll show you my faith by my works.

 

[quietthinker]

It kills people without mercy, tah twas all it could ever do, ever did. Should we go around the circle again.

It kills wickedness because it is righteous and men's actions are evil. What you're wanting to do is get rid of what is righteous so that evil men can go on with impunity even be rewarded. It is quiet clear to me you are pushing the enemy's agenda off handedly attempting to to make God's Holy Law with your 'tah' of no consequence. Shame on you!

The Law is Holy and righteous and good. Do you remember Paul saying this? Romans 7:12.

Put the blame where the blame lies.....in mens evil heart.

 

[brakelite]

. I left the SDA denomination when I learned about grace.

Grace empowers us to obey. Mercy forgives us when we don't.
Grace grants us motivation to obey. Mercy removes the guilt of not wanting to.
Grace never validates any persons unwillingness to uphold God's laws, and mercy never takes effect without repentance.

Whether or not you ever see that the Ten Commandments IS the old covenant, with the sign of the Sabbath

Which brings us back to your contention that what you call the spirit of the law is to be obeyed and not the letter. So we rest in Christ and ignore the commandment. We refuse to lust for our neighbour, but have sexual relations with him,/her and remain guiltless. So long as we can find reason for our anger we are justified, but we can kill with impunity... Because the ten commandments are no longer valid right?
Loving our neighbour means we must never lust, but adultery is acceptable. Loving our neighbour means we must never get angry without a cause, but once a cause is established, we can kill him in love. Reminds me of the inquisitors who burnt people at the stake to lovingly induce them to repent and be saved. So loving God means we cease from our own works, and lovingly deny God the right to exercise His authority over us through His commandments.
And then we tell our own children that to obey parents is a reflection of their love, respect, and faithfulness to them, and that this is a godly trait.
But don't obey God, because His commandments are old. Or only for the Jews. Or mpossible to keep. Or legalistic. Or a human attempt to earn salvation. Or keep it.
But obey God in all things because we love Him? Simply because He asks? Nah, that concept is far too difficult to even bother trying to comprehend... Far easier just to call them a cult and ignore them. Maybe they'll go away and we won't have to bother about their upholding God's laws... Now, let's get back to our dancing shall we?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Grace empowers us to obey. Mercy forgives us when we don't.
Grace grants us motivation to obey. Mercy removes the guilt of not wanting to.
Grace never validates any persons unwillingness to uphold God's laws, and mercy never takes effect without repentance.

Exactly. Grace is not unmerited favor as so many love to teach, like a license to sin. Grace is the power of God given us to become born again of the Spirit.

I'm going to break down the rest of your post. I know what you believe, because I was once you; but you haven't a clue as to what I believe, and your assumptions are funny.

Which brings us back to your contention that what you call the spirit of the law is to be obeyed and not the letter. So we rest in Christ and ignore the commandment. We refuse to lust for our neighbour, but have sexual relations with him,/her and remain guiltless. So long as we can find reason for our anger we are justified, but we can kill with impunity... Because the ten commandments are no longer valid right?

ROFL The spirit of the law is with a capital S. Does the Spirit of God sin? With God inside of you, are you going to sin? 1 John 3:9. So no it does not mean you don't do the deeper part of the law (lust), and go ahead and commit the surface law (adultery). It means if you cleanse the inner, the outer heals by itself. So if you love perfectly you will NOT murder, not dishonor your parents, not steal from your neighbor. Is that really so hard to grasp the true meaning of the Spirit of the Law.

Loving our neighbour means we must never lust, but adultery is acceptable. Loving our neighbour means we must never get angry without a cause, but once a cause is established, we can kill him in love. Reminds me of the inquisitors who burnt people at the stake to lovingly induce them to repent and be saved. So loving God means we cease from our own works, and lovingly deny God the right to exercise His authority over us through His commandments.

Same response. ROFL

And then we tell our own children that to obey parents is a reflection of their love, respect, and faithfulness to them, and that this is a godly trait.
But don't obey God, because His commandments are old. Or only for the Jews. Or mpossible to keep. Or legalistic. Or a human attempt to earn salvation. Or keep it.

You don't get it. Keeping the Old Covenant Commandments were easy to keep. It never was in my nature to want to kill someone or even an animal, etc. It is like kindergarten. They are the easy surface laws that don't go very deep to the real cause of sin. Iniquity in the heart. This is why the Ten Commandments were "weak" and only to guard us until Jesus came to completely undo the curse from Adam. The Ten Commandments could not make anyone holy, or even righteous. Why? The carnal nature we inherited from Adam's sin. This is why Jesus came to die for us, so we could die to sin, and no longer be sin's slave. We MUST be born again of the Holy Spirit.

As I recall, you already know this, and I agreed, so are just throwing rocks at me and accusing me falsely. Hmmm "bearing false witness"? Isn't there a commandment about that??? LOL

But obey God in all things because we love Him? Simply because He asks? Nah, that concept is far too difficult to even bother trying to comprehend... Far easier just to call them a cult and ignore them. Maybe they'll go away and we won't have to bother about their upholding God's laws... Now, let's get back to our dancing shall we?

Again, after respecting you, what are you doing to me??? I never called you a cult, but others have and when I see it, I correct them. But, if all you want to keep are the surface laws, and never learn love and respect and the fruit of the Spirit, Jesus will say "I never knew you."

I know you won't accept this, but John tells us what are the New Covenant commandments in a nutshell. Jesus gave the particulars in the Sermon on the Mount (and never said one thing about keeping the Sabbath, in fact, broke the Sabbath to show that He was Lord of the Sabbath.)

1 John 3:23-24
23 And these are His commandments: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Believe in Jesus who is God - covers Commandments 1-4
Love neighbors from the heart - covers Commandments 5-10

John 15:10
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

cc: @quietthinker

 

[quietthinker]

I'm going to break down the rest of your post. I know what you believe, because I was once you; but you haven't a clue as to what I believe, and your assumptions are funny.

Surprisingly, I would say its the other way around.

When Jesus said affirmed 'love the Lord your God with all your heart' and stated 'love your neighbour as yourself' he was doing none other than repackaging the ten commandments and breaking them down further into two concise packages.

The ten themselves are a breakdown of a broader scope....so to pit one against the other is totally short sighted and indicative of a lack of understanding why the ten C's are called holy, just and good.

 

[mjrhealth]

James said, I'll show you my faith by my works.

I have no works of my own to show, only the works of the father.

Joh_5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

and they are the only works worth doing all else is self.

 

[mjrhealth]

It kills wickedness because it is righteous and men's actions are evil.

No it kills people. the law brings judgement, judgment brings death, there is no escape from the law for those who "claim" they keep it.

It is quiet clear to me you are pushing the enemy's agenda off handedly attempting to to make God's Holy Law with your 'tah' of no consequence. Shame on you!

You dont mean the bit about keeping the law and rejecting His grace do you. Its one or the other, As I said, you can get the person out of religion hard to get the religion out of the person.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Surprisingly, I would say its the other way around.

When Jesus said affirmed 'love the Lord your God with all your heart' and stated 'love your neighbour as yourself' he was doing none other than repackaging the ten commandments and breaking them down further into two concise packages.

The ten themselves are a breakdown of a broader scope....so to pit one against the other is totally short sighted and indicative of a lack of understanding why the ten C's are called holy, just and good.

Where is believing in Jesus in the Ten Commandments? Can you really be righteous without Him? Actually, it is the Sabbath, but concealed. It pointed back to the Creator, Jesus, without Whom nothing was made that was made. Keeping a day of the week was just kindergarten to prepare them for the truth. Hate and lust were not in the Ten Commandments; they could still hate and lust, just not murder and commit adultery. Hate and lust were part of the carnal nature that God wasn't dealing with yet. A new nature to not hate and lust was graduation of the New Covenant. You are so fixated on a 24 hour period you don't recognize types and shadows.

The Old Covenant of the Ten Commandments that were "weak through the flesh" represented Ishmael, Abraham's son through the carnal flesh. The New Covenant represented Isaac, the son through promise, and the supernatural opening of Sarah's womb. Being supernaturally born again is given to all true Christians of the New Covenant. In us is the Seed of the Father, so that the true righteous requirements of God's eternal law to love God with ALL your heart, mind and body, and love your neighbor as yourself could be realized. The children of Israel were told what the eternal laws were, but only required to keep their outward actions holy, thus the Ten Commandments. Only Jesus could cleanse the inner heart and give us a new nature to make us truly righteous and holy.

cc: @brakelite

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Yes, of course QT, but i meant what I said in context, as to the precedence that the Sabbath has. Not, that Jesus transgressed any laws, for he was perfect, and as you said, therefore, a qualified sacrifice.
But, he held human life and well-being, at a higher level than the 3rd Commandment. Thus, keeping the Sabbath in its proper place.

<<the precedence that the Sabbath has>> is indubitable from the beginning to the end of the Bible specifically because Jesus <<held human life and well-being at the highest level>> through his - God's very own - <<keeping the Sabbath in its proper place>> which was "on the Seventh Day God thus concerning spake by the Son" as first time ever "in times past" IN EDEN where and when for the first time "God blessed the Seventh Day .. and sanctified the Seventh Day .. and God the Seventh Day RESTED" and <<held human life and well-being at the highest level>> while "on the Seventh Day God FINISHED all the works of GOD" through Jesus Christ. Through whom else than Jesus Christ the Son? "For man" Adam and Eve, who else? having "finished', how else than by having "made Sacrifice"? of what else than of HIMSELF the Lamb of God to be?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I think that if I was willing to put my mind to it I could quote numerous scriptures that promise a blessing for being obedient to God's commandments... Including Sabbath observance.

You may keep Sabbath until you're blue in the face yet deny and despise its very blessedness and holiness and wholeness and true Sabbath's-rest DENYING AND DESPISING THE SINGLE DIVINE TRUTH THE SABBATH'S VERY CORE-AND-BONE ESSENTIALITY, THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD ON IT.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Hate and lust were part of the carnal nature that God wasn't dealing with yet. A new nature to not hate and lust was graduation of the New Covenant. You are so fixated on a 24 hour period you don't recognize types and shadows.

Ag please daddy take us to the drive-in. You are so fixated on your own opinionated 'period', you cannot recognise Holy Scripture has a 24 hour literal "DAY the Seventh Day" as type and shadow, as "sign", of the promised Messiah's eternal reign that was a coming and is a coming and forever is the present weekly reality called in the Word of God "the day the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD". Only unanswered question remaining, is, Is He YOUR Lord and God as well? There's no question howsoever in all of Scripture about WHICH DAY THE BIBLE AND INDEED GOD "THUS", IS "SPEAKING". It's only wilful Sunday idolaters who try any trick to place their guilt on the Lord's Day instead of on themselves.

 

[brakelite]

ROFL The spirit of the law is with a capital S. Does the Spirit of God sin? With God inside of you, are you going to sin? 1 John 3:9. So no it does not mean you don't do the deeper part of the law (lust), and go ahead and commit the surface law (adultery). It means if you cleanse the inner, the outer heals by itself. So if you love perfectly you will NOT murder, not dishonor your parents, not steal from your neighbor. Is that really so hard to grasp the true meaning of the Spirit of the Law.

I understand fully the meaning of the spirit of the law. And I see that you do also, and you agree that keeping the spirit of the law, only by the grace of God through His work in our hearts, will be reflected in our obedience to the letter of the law. This is what Paul means is it not that love is the fulfilling of the law... Elsewhere it is called righteousness by faith. Not the presumed righteousness and faith that doesn't change the heart, but that righteousness which is the character of Christ imparted to the believer who hungers and thirsts for righteousness. I think to that point you and I are in agreement.

As I recall, you already know this, and I agreed, so are just throwing rocks at me and accusing me falsely. Hmmm "bearing false witness"? Isn't there a commandment about that???

My purpose was to elicit from you a full description of your beliefs regarding the above, so our positions could be made clear.
So to the Sabbath. You agree that the ten commandments are still valid, that they are fulfilled when by grace through faith we love, honouring the spirit of the law. You also confess to honouring the spirit of the Sabbath through your resting in Christ. Now of course there is no natural honouring of the letter in the 4th commandment as in the other 9. Honouring the letter of the 4th commandment however is still a result of love, but on a different plane. Loving God fully necessitates a recognition of His authority... And that Sabbath commandment, different from the morally founded basis unlike the other 9, comes by revelation. A revelation of his will through His authoritative word. We need to think very carefully and have total conviction based on truth, not tradition, that in turning away from that commandment we haven't turned away from the authority of the God who have it.

in fact, broke the Sabbath to show that He was Lord of the Sabbath.)

Come now, let us reason together saith the Lord. Shall my Son sin in order to prove Himself to anyone? Why is He Lord of the Sabbath? Is it not because in the beginning, He made it so? Was it not He who blessed the seventh day and made it holy? Who did He bless it for? Himself? Or man? The Sabbath was made for man. Made holy for man. Why does not man accept this gift and rest fully as I desire him? Why does He profane the Sabbath and take to himself another day I have not sanctified nor blessed?

 

[CharismaticLady]

So to the Sabbath. You agree that the ten commandments are still valid, that they are fulfilled when by grace through faith we love, honouring the spirit of the law. You also confess to honouring the spirit of the Sabbath through your resting in Christ. Now of course there is no natural honouring of the letter in the 4th commandment as in the other 9. Honouring the letter of the 4th commandment however is still a result of love, but on a different plane. Loving God fully necessitates a recognition of His authority... And that Sabbath commandment, different from the morally founded basis unlike the other 9, comes by revelation. A revelation of his will through His authoritative word. We need to think very carefully and have total conviction based on truth, not tradition, that in turning away from that commandment we haven't turned away from the authority of the God who have it.

I just edited my response to quietthinker and added your name as a cc:

To answer this directly - No, we are not under the covenant of the Ten Commandments. To see why read the post above yours.

 

[quietthinker]

Where is believing in Jesus in the Ten Commandments?

'If you love me keep my Commandments' ....or do you doubt that the cloud that followed Israel was none other than Jesus?

Hate and lust were not in the Ten Commandments;

Look a little closer

The children of Israel were told what the eternal laws were, but only required to keep their outward actions holy, thus the Ten Commandments.

I see you mention 'eternal laws' ... that is precisely what they are
Only required to keep their outward actions holy????.....I'm sorry CL, that is truly from your imagination. Isn't that the rule the Pharisee's upheld and which Jesus labeled as hypocrisy?

 

[CharismaticLady]

'If you love me keep my Commandments' ....or do you doubt that the cloud that followed Israel was none other than Jesus?


Look a little closer


I see you mention 'eternal laws' ... that is precisely what they are
Only required to keep their outward actions holy????.....I'm sorry CL, that is truly from your imagination. Isn't that the rule the Pharisee's upheld and which Jesus labeled as hypocrisy?

Show me.

 

[quietthinker]

Show me.

quietthinker said: ↑
1.....'If you love me keep my Commandments' ....or do you doubt that the cloud that followed Israel was none other than Jesus?
Exodus 14:19, “The angel of God, who had been going before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them.” This pillar of cloud and fire is identified here as “the angel of the Lord.” Well, who is that?
I Corinthians 10:4 tell us the rock that followed them was Jesus
'the rock' another metaphor for Jesus......check and consider the context.


2....Look a little closer. :-
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not murder
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery


3....I see you mention 'eternal laws' ... that is precisely what they are
Only required to keep their outward actions holy????.....I'm sorry CL, that is truly from your imagination. Isn't that the rule the Pharisee's upheld and which Jesus labeled as hypocrisy?
Matthew 23:25-26 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

 

[mjrhealth]

We need to think very carefully and have total conviction based on truth, not tradition, that in turning away from that commandment we haven't turned away from the authority of the God who have it.

Thats because we have turned to Christ who is our Husband to be our betrothed..

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And since we never had the law, we never had to wait for the first one to be put away.