its even more telling when you take into account that this letter was written to the Corinthian congregation in the first century...even back then, there were false christians in among the good ones. Pauls words testify to the fact false doctrines were beginning to spring up even then...the apostles even mention some of those false doctrines at 1Tim 4:3 & 1John 2:22
Does the denomination matter?
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its even more telling when you take into account that this letter was written to the Corinthian congregation in the first century...even back then, there were false christians in among the good ones. Pauls words testify to the fact false doctrines were beginning to spring up even then...the apostles even mention some of those false doctrines at 1Tim 4:3 & 1John 2:22
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I think the answer is to work together to reveal the Kingdom of God in our hearts, not reject the church; and make vain attempts to recreate the early church. People have been trying to do that for centuries and it has never worked.
there are only two opposing sides in christinity...those who believe in Jesus AND God the Father... and those who believe Jesus IS God the Father
Im convinced the bible supports one of these options but not both.
Prentis
New Member
Exactly! We are to reveal the kingdom to those around! Only why would we stay in the molds of all these vain attempts to recreate church???
ALL man's systems where man appoints man IS a vain attempt to do it ourself.
I say, let us betray our own cause and put ourselves in a situation where NOTHING (no system, no organization) is what holds us together and alive, but let us be bound in Christ, let that be what keeps us together, rather than the flesh!
We CANNOT reveal the kingdom in our own power. That is WHY our attempts are so weak and ineffective. WHEN we put ourselves in that situation of weakness and look to God rather than our own system, then Christ HIMSELF will reveal the kingdom and the power and the glory through us!
It is only in love and the brothers who are bound in Spirit (love) that Christ reveals himself!
With much love in our Lord, that we may become like him...
Yann
P.S. I'll put it this way. All these man-run systems are dead; we come out of these dead environments that we may enter love, and walk in that love!
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Here's the problem.....Christ used humans to start His church.
One of the real draw backs of the Reformation has been a distrust of humanity's ability to continue what Christ entrusted human beings to maintain - specifically, His Church. It started with the Reformer's charge of corruption in the Catholic Church, which was accurate; unfortunately, they did not stop with simply identifying the corruption. With the exception of Luther (he was excommunicated), the Reformers rebelled and labelled the entire Catholic Church as corrupt, worldly, and sometimes went as far as identifying the Pope as the antichrist. Monarchies encouraged this religious rebellion because they wanted to break away from the Vatican, as well.
This basic distrust for all organized religion, spawned countless vain attempts to recreate the early church - of course, all failed because as soon as the new church movements became large, they fell into the same conundrum as the Catholic Church; they had to add structure, organization and standardization of doctrine/practice/worship. Consequently, all attempts at recreating the early church became an exercise in chasing rainbows.
Today we have witnessed the death of Modernism - mainline Protestantism is in it's death throws; atheism/fundamentalism are gasping for air; and Postmodernism is taking root. The interesting thing is, in the midst of all this change, the old Reformation-born distrust of organized religion is getting stronger! It is now part of the conservative Protestant narrative - 'real Christians' love Jesus, not some building! Religion is of man, not of God! I believe in the Bible (a product of the church), not church!
Admittedly, I find this dualistic thinking absurd. Religion is the framework and method that humans use to communicate and relate to God. A parallel claim might be, "I believe in ideas, not language!" Furthermore, the fact that God has included humans in His plan for our redemption from the very beginning, tells me that He wants us to be obedient and responsible for spreading His Word and caring for His Flock. The method Jesus decided to use according to Mathew 16 is His Church.
Believing that humans are totally depraved and God is the only force working through us for good is an extension of Gnostic dualism; magnified by Calvinism; and perpetuated by a misunderstanding of Paul's use of the word 'flesh'. Paul was not a Gnostic! He did not condemn our flesh (humanity); he condemned our flesh (worldliness)! Also, his use of the word 'work' refers to relying on our sinful tendency (old nature) to cut corners and justify the ends with our means because it will not get us closer to God. Instead, God wants our obedience (God + human submission) and our participation (practicing our sanctification by loving God and neighbor).
Church is not the problem. Our unwillingness to participate in loving God and our neighbor in the context of Church is the problem. If God trusts humans to spread His word; we can trust humans to lead us in worship; listen to our worries, fears, sins; and to walk with us in our sanctification and sometimes show us the way by their example.
from what i've seen, JW's live a christian life
What have you seen to state otherwise?
They have a different savior. The wrong savior.
John 1 The Word was God. The Word became flesh.
you know what, even if you believe that Jesus himself is God, then that makes Jesus the God of the Hebrew scriptures.
The God of the hebrew scriptures is Jehovah. So, in your trinitarian view, worshiping Jehovah is the same as worshiping Jesus anyway.
Or are you claiming they have another savior, other then Jehovah?
True indeed.
Jeremiah 17:10 (ESV)
[sup]10 [/sup]“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”
Are you saying that Jehovah is Jesus? Jesus is certainly the God of the OT.
Do you still not see the lunacy of accusing the JW's of having a different God and savior?
Wow. just wow. :lol:
This all makes me think about the verse in Amos... "How can two walk together, if they do not agree?"
To me it's not so much that denomination doesn't matter, as it is that denominations show we are NOT conformed to Christ. Jesus can't disagree with Jesus. And believe me, more studying or breaking our own head over this stuff won't do the job.
We walk in our own reality and fit Jesus in it, making then Jesus to be in our own image. That's just what denominations are, different ways of seeing Jesus. Only even Paul said, 'we know no man according to the flesh, not even Christ'. We need to know Christ by experience.
We need to enter the kingdom reality, the Spirit. We need to surrender to God and let him live through us. Only when we die and let Christ live through us can we find true unity.
Denominations is Babel. We are divided because if we agreed in a religious way we would be building a tower to the heavens to try to reach God. Instead we have a bunch of small towers. Maybe if the tower is small enough we will realize our own strength doesn't measure up
Sorry Canuck, this is more of a "christian to christian" answer to the question I guess... I hope it still helps!
Blessings to all of ya...
Yes indeed Prentis, many seem to confuse prominence with preeminence but there is a huge difference while Christ may be a prominent figure in the christian religious institution, it is obvious He is not preeminent in it, but He is preeminent in the spiritual body, the ekklesia that He is building.
Here is an interesting article by Tozer. http://crosslandchur...y-of-Christ.pdf
Robbie
New Member
So far the only Way that's proven perfectly and stood the test of trials in my life has been Jesus... if I would have built my relationship with God on anything else I would have fallen apart a long time ago... because even though churches, people, pastors, etc have let me down... Jesus never has... He has always been faithful and true and I believe He always will be...
Good point Robbie, if the only time I relate to my friend's brother is through my friend, then is my friend's brother a friend or the brother of a friend? So when it comes to relating to God through others, wouldn't it be indirect and lack intimacy?
Robbie
New Member
i agree jiggy... knowing Him is eternal life... and the only way I've found to really know Him personally is directly through Jesus... He is the revelation... thank God... much aloha brother...
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Sometimes the denomination can become an abomination!
For the froward (stubborn) is abomination to the LORD: but his secret is with the righteous. - Proverbs 3:32
For the froward (stubborn) is abomination to the LORD: but his secret is with the righteous. - Proverbs 3:32
antho91
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I really like the way you put this martinlawrencescott, and I think is really true in what you said.
God bless!!
Two threads in one day! Sorry, I've got a lot of questions on my mind.
Sorry if this seems like a lot of questions, but I thought it'd be easier to address them all in one thread. I really do not understand why there are so many different denominations of Protestantism alone without including the other denominations. I understand that Protestants and Catholics disagree on stuff like the Transubstantiation and idols/images, etc., but I become lost when I try and figure out the differences between the Protestant denominations. Really, if you are a Christian, how do you even know where to start when choosing a denomination? That would drive me crazy trying to research into every one and figuring out which one makes the most sense to me. How do people do it?
Okay, I'll stop now before this becomes mindless rambling.
[font="'Comic Sans MS"]According to the Scripture, there is one body. [bible='Ephesians 4:4'][/bible] The thing that must define the Christian is the Scripture, the whole Scripture, and the Scripture alone. Why the Scripture? Because that is where we find guidance from God! Why the WHOLE Scripture? Because it is easy to make the Scripture say what you want when you just select certain verses. The Scripture must never contradict itself. Why the Scripture alone? Because no other book is inspired of God and therefore cannot be trusted 100%. I would choose a denomination based on what they teach. If they are teaching something which is contradicted by Scripture, forget it. If they teach something that isn't even in Scripture as gospel truth, forget it! [/font]
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[font="'Comic Sans MS"]Mat_24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. [/font]
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