Domestic Violence

[amigo de christo]

I agree about the catastrophic nature of abuse. I don't see how one gets divorce out of passages such as 1 Cor. 7 or Romans 7. I do see how God supplies grace day by day in the most intense of situations, Isaiah 48.10.

God supplies grace . But grace dont DENY JESUS or one word HE said .
We need to always remember that . Any grace that denies what JESUS said , is grace that DENIES what GOD said .
AND its not grace , its a but a slippery snare to the soul . ALWAYS remember that .
I tell us all , if we would return to bibles only and learn that JESUS , our souls would be so safe and at true peace .
No grace that omits JESUS sayings , is grace . let us remember that till our final breath . Let us point to JESUS and do so always .

 

[JohnDB]

not exactly my friend . JESUS said save for fornication .
Even abigail remained with her husband nabal who was a man of belial , TILL HE DIED . after that she became the wife of david .
and not before . save for fornication or death . oh you can seperate . but remarriage is not permissible
lest the spouse died or fornication was involved . Be encouraged .

No...the terms used are "put away" and divorce...
In the 19th chapter it's well after the 13th chapter where Jesus was going to speak only in riddles to the Pharisees.
Pornea was a reference to being unfaithful to God...not adultery as adulterous women were executed as in John 8.

Not to mention the wars that have been fought over how these passages were translated as well as the principles.

 

[amigo de christo]

No...the terms used are "put away" and divorce...
In the 19th chapter it's well after the 13th chapter where Jesus was going to speak only in riddles to the Pharisees.

Not to mention the wars that have been fought over how these passages were translated as well as the principles.

I love you my friend . but those words wont float . If JESUS said it , DO IT .

 

[amigo de christo]

I know i have a child like simple appraoch to scripture . IF JESUS says it do it . and never try and find a way around it .
I be but as a child . But lest ye be converted as small children ...........
JESUS never said lest ye be wise concieted theologians who can speak elegant and make fair speeches .
Small children have one trust . its simply really . IF GOD SAID IT , they BELEIVE IT . IF JESUS said it , GOD said it .
Beleive me that is truth too .

 

[amadeus]

If it were God's perfect and original plan, why did he only create one woman for Adam? And why did God not remove several ribs and create more women than just Eve? And why did God start over after the flood with Noah and his sons and each having one wife? Why does Scripture say that a man should leave father and mother and cleave to his wife ...instead of "wives"? It was permitted bc man is fallen. But it isn't a Biblical mandate for men to multiply wives to themselves.

Men [including women] began disobeying God with that first couple, Adam and Eve. It did not stop there. Perhaps a good example of how far from God things had gone is seen in King David, who did have several wives but was still called a man after God's heart and the apple of God's eye. Eventually, if David had continued in natural life longer perhaps he would have had to come to terms with his own polygamy as well. David messed up badly as we know during his life, but his heart was soft toward God and he was willing when confronted with his adultery and murder to suffer the consequences, which according the law given to Moses, was death. God forgave the man because of the man's heart.

The Bride of Christ is to be the Church, but unlike Jesus, the Bride, consisting of physical men and women is Not ready yet. The polygamies and other things at which God has winked will all be removed.

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Acts 17:30

"There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.
My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her." Song of Solomon 6:8-9

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." Eph 5:25-27

 

[JohnDB]

I agree about the catastrophic nature of abuse. I don't see how one gets divorce out of passages such as 1 Cor. 7 or Romans 7. I do see how God supplies grace day by day in the most intense of situations, Isaiah 48.10.

Roman law versus Jewish law... Paul was writing to ROMANS.
Paul was speaking to wives licensing their abuses to their husbands with their poor understanding of Christian principles.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Then she needs to get out of dodge . But remarriage is something else . now if that husband comitted fornication against her . THEN remarriage is permissible , that or he dies . But she cannot partake of his evil desires . If that husband wants her to do such things .
SHE NEEDS TO FLEE that wicked hog . And of course i pray he would repent and come to Christ .
But she needs to flee that filth .

Hmmm .... what if the situation is more complicated? Say ...neither were virgins before marriage ...both from abusive homes, he had a sexual relationship with a girlfriend before he met his wife, she was sexually abused, therefore not a virgin. Both had come to Christ before they met and married ...but DV (all the above mentioned and then some) is an ongoing issue...

What then are her Biblical rights? Separation without remarriage?

 

[101G]

@amadeus

well spoken, old friend.

PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[JohnDB]

Hmmm .... what if the situation is more complicated? Say ...neither were virgins before marriage ...both from abusive homes, he had a sexual relationship with a girlfriend before he met his wife, she was sexually abused, therefore not a virgin. Both had come to Christ before they met and married ...but DV (all the above mentioned and then some) is an ongoing issue...

What then are her Biblical rights? Separation without remarriage?

If I may...
"Two wounded souls can't make a marriage but are great at making a ward in a hospital to get treated for their wounds".

Marriage is for a giving and surrendering freedom type relationship. It's not about obtaining more in any fashion.

It's commonly sold as obtaining more...but it flat out ain't that way.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hmmm .... what if the situation is more complicated? Say ...neither were virgins before marriage ...both from abusive homes, he had a sexual relationship with a girlfriend before he met his wife, she was sexually abused, therefore not a virgin. Both had come to Christ before they met and married ...but DV (all the above mentioned and then some) is an ongoing issue...

What then are her Biblical rights? Separation without remarriage?

We all , well sadly i did , had sexual relations before marriage . but marriage is marriage .
Paul never said one could not seperate . He simply said , no remarriage , remain single or be RECONCILED to a repentant husband .
You can be single . That is a fact . if that man wants YOU in relations with other men , YOU got no choice BUT TO leave .
Remain single . I will let us in on a story about a man .
I know this man . now in his case he cannot remarry or it would be adultery .
But the day this man came to or was Drawn to JESUS , He has remained single .
The moment that man read what JESUS said , or anything HE said , He simply loved it .
that man has been the most joyful man and has great peace . JESUS sayings were never heavy to that man . THERE were FREEDOM .
AND JESUS said , HAPPY is the one who KEEPS my sayings . I hope that encouraged you sister .
If you ever want to meet that man . WELL ITS ME . been single and joyous in JESUS for over sixteen years .
DONT ever let folks lie to you sister . Let us follow JESUS , HIS Sayings and Be always thankful TO HE and HE ALONE for all THAT HE has DONE .

 

[farouk]

Roman law versus Jewish law... Paul was writing to ROMANS.
Paul was speaking to wives licensing their abuses to their husbands with their poor understanding of Christian principles.

I'm not sure that what you may see in 1 Cor. 7 and Romans 7 accords with an understanding of the Christian principles they express: divorce (or remarriage) do not seem to be in view here.

 

[TLHKAJ]

If I may...
"Two wounded souls can't make a marriage but are great at making a ward in a hospital to get treated for their wounds".

Marriage is for a giving and surrendering freedom type relationship. It's not about obtaining more in any fashion.

It's commonly sold as obtaining more...but it flat out ain't that way.

Yes, but they may not have been in touch or aware of their wounding. And isn't everyone wounded and broken to a degree? I don't think there would be any marriages if we all waited until we were perfect. lol

 

[JohnDB]

I'm not sure that what you may see in 1 Cor. 7 and Romans 7 accords with an understanding of the Christian principles they express: divorce (or remarriage) do not seem to be in view here.

Romans was written to Romans...not Jews.
Context and circumstances are very different.

 

[TLHKAJ]

We all , well sadly i did , had sexual relations before marriage . but marriage is marriage .
Paul never said one could not seperate . He simply said , no remarriage , remain single or be RECONCILED to a repentant husband .
You can be single . That is a fact . if that man wants YOU in relations with other men , YOU got no choice BUT TO leave .
Remain single . I will let us in on a story about a man .
I know this man . now in his case he cannot remarry or it would be adultery .
But the day this man came to or was Drawn to JESUS , He has remained single .
The moment that man read what JESUS said , or anything HE said , He simply loved it .
that man has been the most joyful man and has great peace . JESUS sayings were never heavy to that man . THERE were FREEDOM .
AND JESUS said , HAPPY is the one who KEEPS my sayings . I hope that encouraged you sister .
If you ever want to meet that man . WELL ITS ME . been single and joyous in JESUS for over sixteen years .
DONT ever let folks lie to you sister . Let us follow JESUS , HIS Sayings and Be always thankful TO HE and HE ALONE for all THAT HE has DONE .

Yes, I knew it was you. :)
Thank you for your replies.
I'm thinking that a woman in such a case should do everything within her power not to be subjected to things that are sin ...such as being forced to be used by other men ....as one example. Still, she may not marry another unless her unbelieving husband divorced her or he dies. Would you agree?

Idk about say, if he also has committed adultery...

 

[amadeus]

Yes, but they may not have been in touch or aware of their wounding. And isn't everyone wounded and broken to a degree? I don't think there would be any marriages if we all waited until we were perfect. lol

All of us were dead to God before we met and received Life from Jesus. A marriage established between two dead people is dead in the eyes of God and neither one is bound by the contract... unless where only one of the two meets Jesus, he/she is convicted to hold to it. When we meet the Master and receive Life, we have a brand new starting place. Our history may still affect us, but God will not condemn us because of what happened before...

 

[amigo de christo]

Hmmm .... what if the situation is more complicated? Say ...neither were virgins before marriage ...both from abusive homes, he had a sexual relationship with a girlfriend before he met his wife, she was sexually abused, therefore not a virgin. Both had come to Christ before they met and married ...but DV (all the above mentioned and then some) is an ongoing issue...

What then are her Biblical rights? Separation without remarriage?

Roman law versus Jewish law... Paul was writing to ROMANS.
Paul was speaking to wives licensing their abuses to their husbands with their poor understanding of Christian principles.

man paul was writing to romans . ANd here i thought he was writing TO THE CHURCH that just happened to be in ROME .
THOSE words my friend were wrote to the Church . as such they as good for us today as they were for them back then.
I told us , with much love , i see things simple as does a child .
IF JESUS said it or the apostels wrote it , I simply BELIEVE and LOVE IT and EMBRACE it .
AND let no one think i am some great thing . NO way . That is called the true grace of GOD
which can change even the darkest and worst heart . AND that i should know .
Had you all known me , BEFORE grace , BEFORE , you all would have ran in terror . I was pig nasty filthy dirty wicked .
GOD changes hearts and PUTS the LOVE of JESUS Words IN IT , the LOVE of TRUTH IN IT . I pray for you my friend .
I do . But you are not seeing things clear at the moment .

 

[101G]

All of us were dead to God before we met and received Life from Jesus. A marriage established between two dead people is dead in the eyes of God and neither one is bound by the contract... unless where only one of the two meets Jesus, he/she is convicted to hold to it. When we meet the Master and receive Life, we have a brand new starting place. Our history may still affect us, but God will not condemn us because of what happened before...

all right preacher, preach the "Spirit", the truth.

PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, I knew it was you. :)
Thank you for your replies.
I'm thinking that a woman in such a case should do everything within her power not to be subjected to things that are sin ...such as being forced to be used by other men ....as one example. Still, she may not marry another unless her unbelieving husband divorced her or he dies. Would you agree?

Idk about say, if he also has committed adultery...

IF he comitted fornication , sex with another woman , or in this age man too , YOU GOT all the grounds for divorce and remarriage .
JESUS said save for FORNICATION .

 

[Taken]

What if, say, a woman is being beaten, subjected to abusive or violent or degrading sex acts, or offered/given to other men? What if they both were believers at marriage, but eventually the husband falls away and there is no chance of marriage counseling?
What I am looking for is Biblical/Scriptural reference. What does God say?

1 Cor 7:
[15] ...God hath called us to peace.

Abuse between spouses is not sanctioned in Scripture as a reason for divorce.

Trying to treat abuse, is a fail without God.

If a married man and woman are at odds ...
Think about it...that ARE ONE...
And their discourse is similar to ONE individual WHOSE Heart and Mind are at odds.

Without an Agreement ... (between a husband and wife) of What IS the true "cause of the odds"...

The husband abuser should separate himself from the household. (not divorce).



Because they are not at Peace.

In reality, that ^ is a Fact.
And in reality, many things contribute, Instigate, perpetuate abuse...of married people...who do not ever get to the real underlying problem.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[farouk]

Hmmm .... what if the situation is more complicated? Say ...neither were virgins before marriage ...both from abusive homes, he had a sexual relationship with a girlfriend before he met his wife, she was sexually abused, therefore not a virgin. Both had come to Christ before they met and married ...but DV (all the above mentioned and then some) is an ongoing issue...

What then are her Biblical rights? Separation without remarriage?

It's interesting that First Lady Florence Harding, spouse of President Warren Harding, had previously been divorced under Ohio law....without any previous document apparently extant to say she had been legally married to the father of her son. In some jurisdictions, a divorce document could be obtained to establish clearly the situation of mothers with children but with no husband.

It is interesting also that in some North American jurisdictions, if a man went off to war and a woman was expecting his child, they could marry by proxy at a distance, and if he died in the war the mother of his child could be regarded as a war widow, with consequent benefits.

However, I do think that 1 Cor. 7 and Romans 7 is talking about married women rather than unmarried mothers.