Donbass Ukraine history and reasons for the civil and current wars

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lforrest

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Here is how Ukraine’s armed forces compare with Russia’s

Russia/Ukraine
Military Expenditure (2020) Russia $61.7 Billion Ukraine $5.9 Billion

Russia/Ukraine

Troops 900,000/209,000

Tanks 2,840/858

Artillery 4,684/1,818

Total Aircraft 1,160/125

Frigates 15/1

Sources: International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS), Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI)
The difference in armament may be offset by NATO countries supplying Ukraine.
 

Truth7t7

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The difference in armament may be offset by NATO countries supplying Ukraine.
If you study outside sources not connected to the western MSM, the NATO alliance armament or ammunition isn't making it to the Ukrainians in battle

The recent Russian cruise missile strikes at the Ukranian military base at Polands border near Leviv, killed 135 foreign military volunteers, and destroyed NATO shipments of ammunition and armarments into Ukraine

Russia has the sea on lockdown and is watching all movement from Moldova and Poland's borders into Ukraine, Russia has Ukraine surrounded, all borders, air, sea, no ammunition or armaments or ammunition is making it to the Ukranian's in battle
 
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lforrest

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If you study outside sources not connected to the western MSM, the NATO alliance armament arent making it to the Ukrainians in battle

The recent Russian cruise missile strikes at the Ukranian military base at Polands border near Leviv, killed 135 foreign military volunteers, and destroyed NATO shipments of ammunition and armarments into Ukraine

Russia has the sea on lockdown and is watching all movement from Moldova and Poland's borders into Ukraine, Russia has Ukraine surrounded, all borders, air, sea, no ammunition or armaments or ammunition is making it to the Ukranian battle

If Ukraine can't maintain supply lines they have already lost.
 
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Truth7t7

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If Ukraine can't maintain supply lines they have already lost.
I Agree, and the western MSM isn't reporting the truth regarding the situation, Ukraine doesn't have basic rifles or ammo in supply to give to capable volunteers?

Ziggy posted the (RT) clip below a few days ago from (Odyssey) it appears to be from Americans who went to Ukraine as Malitia Volunteers, many not given weapons or ammo, It appears to be legit to me, and no MSM will interview the volunteers leaving or cover the story, as (RT) has been globally banned by YouTube?

Those young men look like legit Americans who went to help the fight, giving their honest testimony of what's going on in Ukraine, (IMO)

The scary and evil part is, the MSM is remaining silent?

What is your opinion of the attached clip?
 
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Ronald Nolette

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So apparently the Russian military uses conscription as a normal part of their armed forces. There is a mandatory term of service of one year for all males. Many other countries do something similar. Generally they are not deployed abroad, however some are in Ukraine right now.

Yes the bulk of the northern forces coming in through Belarus are conscripts, which explains the massive looses in life and equipment in the northern theater.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Molotov cocktails and guns for prisoners: Here's how Ukraine is mobilising its citizens to fight Russia
By Sara Tomevska
Posted Mon 28 Feb 2022
d0504176ed95bfcc68a9fdbd8027a0a1

An instructor trains a woman to shoot a rifle near Kharkiv in early February.(AP Photo: Evgeniy Maloletka)

Prisoners join resistance, citizens given guns

In an address to the people of Ukraine overnight, Mr Zelenskyy said everyone who could “join the struggle against the invaders must do so.”

And he meant everyone.

He said prisoners with combat experience would be released from jail, and told them to "compensate for their guilt in the hottest spots of war".

Ukrainian men and women have volunteered in droves to get weapons and learn how to defend their country.

Authorities have handed out weapons to anyone willing to fight, teaching them how to use assault rifles and throw grenades.

And they are signing up in legions! So much for Ukraine mistreating their citizens. Even Ukrainians living overseas are going home to fight. How many of Putins people are flocking home. No, they generally try to leave!

That tells you who most Ukrainians are the evil forces in this barbaric invasion. too bad you will go to prison in Russia if you disseminate this truth!
 

lforrest

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I Agree, and the western MSM isn't reporting the truth regarding the situation, Ukraine doesn't have basic rifles or ammo in supply to give to capable volunteers?

Ziggy posted the (RT) clip below a few days ago from (Odyssey) it appears to be from Americans who went to Ukraine as Malitia Volunteers, many not given weapons or ammo, It appears to be legit to me, and no MSM will interview the volunteers leaving or cover the story, as (RT) has been globally banned by YouTube?

Those young men look like legit Americans who went to help the fight, giving their honest testimony of what's going on in Ukraine, (IMO)

The scary and evil part is, the MSM is remaining silent?

What is your opinion of the attached clip?

It seems probable.
 
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Truth7t7

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And they are signing up in legions! So much for Ukraine mistreating their citizens. Even Ukrainians living overseas are going home to fight. How many of Putins people are flocking home. No, they generally try to leave!

That tells you who most Ukrainians are the evil forces in this barbaric invasion. too bad you will go to prison in Russia if you disseminate this truth!
They are signing up in legions, given wooden guns and imaginary bullets?

Is the attached clip Russian Propaganda?
 

Truth7t7

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Yes the bulk of the northern forces coming in through Belarus are conscripts, which explains the massive looses in life and equipment in the northern theater.
You dont have a clue on numbers of dead or destroyed equipment, why pretend
 

Reggie Belafonte

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They are signing up in legions, given wooden guns and imaginary bullets?

Is the attached clip Russian Propaganda?
To hand unexperienced people a gun or any such tactics, is like sending one out to die in fact, what hope does one with no experience have in war ? Such is a war crime to me to send inexperienced people to do such. it may sound like they are doing the right thing to idiots who do not understand the reality's of what fighting a war is truly all about.
One needs 7 years of training in the military to be a good efficient fighting force that is worthy of such a task in fact.

Does one put one who has never driven a car on to the roads or as to war, such is like on a race track ? with lack of experience such a one as good as dead. not to mention such a one lacks in discipline totally.
One can be all fired up to go to war, but when one sees others get their head blown off etc are they going to keep their cool and be level headed disciplined ?

I have a mate who is all gun ho wanting me to teach him how to shoot, I said No ! because he is an idiot ! he would never make it in the Defence Force, he would be weeded out, because he wants to be a hero ! at the expense of all others around him, it's all about him only ? not to mention that he thinks that his sheer will and determination will get him by :rolleyes:. Willing to give it a go is commendable but it's the task that may sort you out, I remember old mate Hero, one time doing hill climes on our dirt bikes and he is good, claims to be in the top grade equal to the best in the world and mad a huge boast to his wife of his ability's before we set out ;) when we got to the top of the mountain range, we came down to a point and he said do you think we should go down their ? I said that's what we came for. well coming back up, here he was flat on his back calling out Reggie please help ! if only I had a recorder for his wife to see him in that state :cool:. it's not for the faint hearted to take on such at all. and the poor old ego can get smashed. But as to being having to deal with the reality's in a war :rolleyes: we see all them units blown up on TV and people think oh no ! look what happened ? well welcome to the reality's of a war, thank you very much.
 
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Mosheli

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And you think Putin is morally upstanding?

Well he seems more so than many other Western world leaders. He also is supposed to be a christian though this is questionable, but if he is not well no one is good.
He seems more morally upstanding than Zelenskyy.
If he really did invade to "de-Nazify" then it is bizarre the West are so against him because usually the West make "Nazis" out to be the worst evil of all. There has been some evidences of Nazis in Ukraine. (Though I am pro-Nationalist myself so I don't seem them as being quite so bad as the Western propaganda make out.)
I think he made a mistake invading, but he had his reasons (NATO, Nazis, etc), and now he has to see it through since the world making it clear they want his head for "war crimes" etc.

So because all the se natrions applied and got the unanimous vote to enter NATO that gives him the right to invade a sovereign nation, annex land no this?

Not sure what you mean by "se natrions", but the choice of Ukraine to join NATO was not made by all Ukrainians only by some "Ukrainians" like Zelensky, and it was not free of influence from NATO, EU, US, Soros, Jews outside and inside of Ukraine. And even if they all chose to join Russia still has a right to act for its security from any threat.
And Ukraine would not be a sovereign nation if it joins NATO & EU because globalism doesn't believe in borders/boundaries or nations or races so it would only be sovereign in mere token name and pretense.
Historically Ukraine and Russia are both Slavic and Rus, and there has hardly been any times when there was a sovereign Ukraine nation. Did USA etc have a right to invade sovereign Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Somalia, Fiji etc?

And for the Record Yes Putin does want to reconstitute the old Soviet Union. He has written enough on it to let the world know!

Ok I'll take you word for it, I don't know everything about it (though I did read all the general/basic history and background and lead up to be sure of some things like NATO & EU & US & Soros & renegade-Jewish influence &/or Nazi influence being one of the real causes). But even if it is so I don't see it is a big deal. But he would only be wanting to reconstitute the realm geographically & politically, not as a Communist/Socialist/Soviet regime, so can't really call it the SU, would have to call it Russian Empire or CIS or Rus/Varangian state. I mean like Russia & Ukraine & Byelorussia are all Slavic and Rus/Varangian and could be reunited just like Wessex reunited Anglo-Saxon England, Sardinia/Piedmont reunited Italy, Prussia reunited Germany, EEC/EU reunited Frankish empire/kingdom.
Anyway Putin/Russia recognised the 2 breakaway Ukrainian states, so maybe he doesn't want to reconstitute SU.
I don't see how the West can be so moralistically high horse since they have unnatural states like Belgium (Dutch/Flemish & French/Walloon), Switzerland (German, French, Italian & Romansch), Monaco (French), San Marino (Italian), etc, and they don't pressure Russia to let the Russian part Prussia be reconstitued as independant state of Prussia. And I don't see CIS/"SU" and any worse than EU. Most Western states are not wholly independant as many like NZ & Australia are just following the globalist powers US & EU & UK & China & Israel & Vatican.
(Actually I read yesterday of 127 provinces in Esther and wondered if they may match 127 nations of world in end times (though at present there are about 200). But even if so they are only provinces under the king/emperor.)
 

Ronald Nolette

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Well he seems more so than many other Western world leaders. He also is supposed to be a christian though this is questionable, but if he is not well no one is good.
He seems more morally upstanding than Zelenskyy.
If he really did invade to "de-Nazify" then it is bizarre the West are so against him because usually the West make "Nazis" out to be the worst evil of all. There has been some evidences of Nazis in Ukraine. (Though I am pro-Nationalist myself so I don't seem them as being quite so bad as the Western propaganda make out.)
I think he made a mistake invading, but he had his reasons (NATO, Nazis, etc), and now he has to see it through since the world making it clear they want his head for "war crimes" etc.


First that is a myth. The term "Nazi" has a very very storng reaction ot Russian people and that was used to get teh people to support His invasion of the Ukraine.

And comparing one leader with another is unwise. I can remind you of His gassing Syrians and chechnyans. His stealing parts of gErogia and Ukraine. HIs assassinations.

Islam forbids abortions and homosexuality and I would not consider the Imams moral. maybe in categories but that is all.

And what do we really know about Zelensky, other than He is most likely unsaved, got elected and has tired to drain teh swamp (unsuccessfully like Trumpwas unsuccessful) that wsas Ukrainian politics.

He is a faithful husband and good father and has not been charged with corruption of any sort while President.

and Putin has committed war crimes according to Pacts Russia signed after WW 2 saying certain military actions are war crimes.

Indiscrimate bombing of schools, hospitals and housing is a war crime! And who gave him teh right to invade a nation that was no threat to him? who authorized him to go and "de-anything" to another nation? Why did He steal the Crimea? Why did he arm and supply and send in troops to the Donbas and start a miniwar with the nation who owns that land?

Not sure what you mean by "se natrions", but the choice of Ukraine to join NATO was not made by all Ukrainians only by some "Ukrainians" like Zelensky, and it was not free of influence from NATO, EU, US, Soros, Jews outside and inside of Ukraine. And even if they all chose to join Russia still has a right to act for its security from any threat.
And Ukraine would not be a sovereign nation if it joins NATO & EU because globalism doesn't believe in borders/boundaries or nations or races so it would only be sovereign in mere token name and pretense.
Historically Ukraine and Russia are both Slavic and Rus, and there has hardly been any times when there was a sovereign Ukraine nation. Did USA etc have a right to invade sovereign Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Somalia, Fiji etc?

that was supposed to be "these nations" meaning the former enslaved soviet bloc nations once they were freed. Well Zelensky made it clear he wanted to ber part of Nato and won by an overwhelming majority- except in the Donbas and parts of Crimea. That made it the people approved.

Well, just like china and Russia are constantly seeking to expand their sphere of influence so isn't the west.

NATO has never threatened Russia. NATO was formed to counter act the Russian threat! Putin has written and spoken openly about reconsituting the old soviet empire!

Ukraine was not hreat to Russia. Even if it joined NATO.

Wel that is the goal of globalism but it hasn't happened yet. And when it does Russia will also be without borders. there is a one world govt. coming- that is biblical.

Historically Ukraine and Russia are both Slavic and Rus, and there has hardly been any times when there was a sovereign Ukraine nation. Did USA etc have a right to invade sovereign Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Somalia, Fiji etc?

Ukraine was declared a sovereign nation in 1918. It was absorbed in to the old soviet union. It also had a separate identity in history.

Well evil for evil is a lousy way to run a world! It doesn't make Putins crime of invading a nation at peace with it any more right!

Ok I'll take you word for it, I don't know everything about it (though I did read all the general/basic history and background and lead up to be sure of some things like NATO & EU & US & Soros & renegade-Jewish influence &/or Nazi influence being one of the real causes)

Putin is paranoid about NATO because if he thought he could get away with it He would launch against Europe! So he thinks Europe would do the same- History has shown that very wrong!

And yes Putin is very anti semitic. I know not of renegade Jewish influence. There is not strategic interest for any Jewish factions with the Ukraine.
Soros is a bit player with Zelensky- He contributed to His campaign, but since 2019, there is no visible evidence of him influencing the Country.


big difference. And that move was illegal.also the neo nazis voted for Zelensky, just like the marxists voted for the leftist candidate. the neo nazis in America voted for Trump! does tht make for a reason to invade the US? Also many marxists voted for Biden! That is a red herring argument. There is no nazi action going on in the Ukraine, other than groups shouting and maybe parading around like in the US.

Anyway Putin/Russia recognized the 2 breakaway Ukrainian states, so maybe he doesn't want to reconstitute SU.

Wrong. He didn't recognize them, He declared them separate regions! and don't be fooled. Putin thinks the greatest shame of Mother Russian history was the dissolution of the soviet union . and He has made it his goal to reconstitute, though any means necessary. He has stated this publicly and in writing and has never recanted.

I don't see how the West can be so moralistically high horse since they have unnatural states like Belgium (Dutch/Flemish & French/Walloon), Switzerland (German, French, Italian & Romansch), Monaco (French), San Marino (Italian), etc, and they don't pressure Russia to let the Russian part Prussia be reconstitued as independant state of Prussia. And I don't see CIS/"SU" and any worse than EU. Most Western states are not wholly independant as many like NZ & Australia are just following the globalist powers US & EU & UK & China & Israel & Vatican.

Prussia was germanic. Israel a global power? Maybe we should go back to before the tower of Babel and recognize the nations as they were then?
The ME is almost a total hodge podge of carved out nations. So for sins of centuries past, we should allow Putin to just destroy tens of thousands of homes? Kill thousands of civilians? Uproot over 10,000,000 people? Remember Russia fell of its own accord like America will someday not too far in the future. I cannot speak to all of history BUT I CAN SPEAK TO WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW- A MUCH LARGER NATION INVADED A MUCH SMALLER NATION TO TAKE IT OVER!

And as immoral and corrupt America is, until God calls me home, I would prefer to live here every day! It os one of the best of a bad lot and far superior to Russia.